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Depeche Mode early 80's Setup? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 15th January 2018
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lurcher View Post
I saw Depeche at Brighton Jenkinson’s on the 2nd of August 1981. I remember them having a Prodigy, a CS5, a reel to reel tape recorder, Revox B77 probably. For the life of me I can’t remember what Vince was playing but I lean towards a mono Roland, SH something. There were only about 30 people there and Blancemange supported. Great gig. I then saw them not too long after at Chichester Festival Theatre and Vince had a JP4 (which he did not have at Jenkinson's). That gig was packed as Just Can’t Get Enough had charted and they were on the way up. I was really into synths then and took notice of what they had. I may have just got a Pro One at that time.

Great story!
At this time Vince only owned a Kawai 100-F.
The Roland may have been the SH-1 of Daniel Miller, they used it a lot for a Richard Skinner radio session two months before so it's very possible he brought it on stage.

On Speak & Spell, "Ice Machine" is said to be 90% SH-1.

The royalties from "New Life" came in August, that's how Vince bought his JP-4.
Old 15th January 2018
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
Great story!
At this time Vince only owned a Kawai 100-F.
The Roland may have been the SH-1 of Daniel Miller, they used it a lot for a Richard Skinner radio session two months before so it's very possible he brought it on stage.

On Speak & Spell, "Ice Machine" is said to be 90% SH-1.

The royalties from "New Life" came in August, that's how Vince bought his JP-4.
That all makes sense - ‘New Life’ was the first hit single not ‘Just Can’t Get Enough’ - my bad! Am confident that Vince was using a Roland and SH1 would fit the bill. 1980/81 was all a great story for me. My first 4 gigs I ever went to were Gary Numan/Nash The Slash, Kraftwerk, Ultravox/Xmal Deutschland, Depeche Mode/Blancemange. Was a great time for synth gigs.
Old 15th January 2018
  #63
Gear Nut
 

Sorry, I made a mistake, It's not "New life" but "dreaming of me" royalties that Vince used to buy his JP-4.
In those times the money made 6 months to reach them I guess.
Old 20th January 2018
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
I believe that Fletch basslines on his Moog during early live tours were all on tape and the he, and only him, was all pretending his act.
You can hear Fletch's bass lines all over their first two tours. The bass line for 'Leave in Silence' was definitely on tape, but mostly everything else was played live. The complex bass lines went on tape after Alan Wilder joined the band as an official member (1983) and Fletch switched to playing synth sound effects and eventually samples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
So what was the point of the MC-4 in studio for speak and spell?
I’ve never actually read or seen any official documented evidence that an MC-4 was used on ‘Speak and Spell’. It’s use on ‘A broken Frame’ and the Yazoo records is well known, but i’ve never been able to find any confirmation that it was use on their first record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
For Studio work, what's the point, in 83, to have an Emulator when you already have a Synclavier 2? They are both sampler isn'it?
The Synclavier is closer to a modern DAW (similar to the Fairlight). It has a monitor screen, you could sample with it, use it as an FM synth, create song arrangements/sequence MIDI with it and sync it to tape. The server unit that goes with the giant keyboard is about six foot high and weighs a tonne.

Emulator II’s (and eventually Emax’s) were used live to reproduce sounds sampled from the recordings.
Old 20th January 2018
  #65
DGL
Gear Addict
Also remember that the sampling aspect of the Synclavier was an option and that a basic Synclavier at the start would have only had FM synthesis (like the one used by Tony Bank).
Although the one used by Depeche Mode, as far as I am aware had the sampling option (originaly mono as has been said), and so would have been an option that tehy would have used, plus it was much higher quality than the fairlight at the time which in hindsight sounded like crap.
Old 21st January 2018
  #66
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
Thank you.

I have the owner manual of both CSQ-100 and CSQ-600.

What you said is described in the 600 manual but there's no such drawing in the 100 manual so maybe, because it's less advanced, it's impossible with the older model?
probably one less connection!
Old 21st January 2018
  #67
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soleil Vert View Post
probably one less connection!
Jist one?
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Depeche Mode early 80's Setup?-l.jpg   Depeche Mode early 80's Setup?-2524-2528kgrhqqoknue1oody9lbbnednsqed-2521-257e-257e_12.jpg  
Old 29th January 2018
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekernel View Post
I’ve never actually read or seen any official documented evidence that an MC-4 was used on ‘Speak and Spell’. It’s use on ‘A broken Frame’ and the Yazoo records is well known, but i’ve never been able to find any confirmation that it was use on their first record.

The Synclavier is closer to a modern DAW (similar to the Fairlight). It has a monitor screen, you could sample with it, use it as an FM synth, create song arrangements/sequence MIDI with it and sync it to tape. The server unit that goes with the giant keyboard is about six foot high and weighs a tonne.

Emulator II’s (and eventually Emax’s) were used live to reproduce sounds sampled from the recordings.
For the MC-4, someone above said it was used to synch ARP 2600 with Korg KR-55. Vince had been quoted to have been furious his Kawai 100-f not working with the MC-4. Alan, while not in the band at this time, has also said it was used on "Speak and Spell".

Thank you very much for those infos on the Synclavier.
Old 29th January 2018
  #69
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New Life on TOTP's, I searched it to hear it, then realised I already new it, the have 3 synths on stage, one is a Moog Prodigy, couldn't make out the other 2.
Old 29th January 2018
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post

New Life on TOTP's, I searched it to hear it, then realised I already new it, the have 3 synths on stage, one is a Moog Prodigy, couldn't make out the other 2.

I have the Karaoké version of this video on my USB Key and every saturday I sing it (horrible rendition of course!) at my local pub.

Vince plays his Kawai 100-F and Martin his Yamaha CS-5.
Old 29th January 2018
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
I have the Karaoké version of this video on my USB Key and every saturday I sing it (horrible rendition of course!) at my local pub.

Vince plays his Kawai 100-F and Martin his Yamaha CS-5.
I didn't notice any mention of the Moog so thought I'd post what I saw on YT, I'm more of a Electro Funk/House/Boogie/Hip Hop fan but DM made some terrific music and I can't help but like the band...
Old 29th January 2018
  #72
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What's is the guys name playing the Drums on JCGE?
Old 29th January 2018
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
What's is the guys name playing the Drums on JCGE?
Ah... the rabbit....

They were not comfortable when representing the drums play. They thoug 'OMG, people will think we have something to hide!!!".
So they brought the 4-track on stage but though it was... a cold sight?
And they altered the hardness of this sight with this nice and lovely rabbit drummer.

But it didn't help them to gain an image of a serious band in these time...
Old 29th January 2018
  #74
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
I didn't notice any mention of the Moog so thought I'd post what I saw on YT, I'm more of a Electro Funk/House/Boogie/Hip Hop fan but DM made some terrific music and I can't help but like the band...
It's a Andy's Moog Prodigy, no matter you see the name of the brand or not.
So what you said was absolutly accurate.
It made about 100% of the basslines on Speak and Spell.

For the video
Moog on left, Kawai in center, Yamaha on the right.


The Kawai was highly unreliable and, the money coming, Vince changed for a Jupiter-4 in august.
Old 29th January 2018
  #75
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
Ah... the rabbit....

They were not comfortable when representing the drums play. They thoug 'OMG, people will think we have something to hide!!!".
So they brought the 4-track on stage but though it was... a cold sight?
And they altered the hardness of this sight with this nice and lovely rabbit drummer.

But it didn't help them to gain an image of a serious band in these time...
Cheers for the insight, I thought it was a joke because they didn't actually have a drummer as it was a drum machine, so he became the 4th member, this makes them even cooler to me now...
Old 29th January 2018
  #76
Gear Nut
 



In this video, at 0.30, you can see Dave Gahan talking about their reloationship with the tapes.

And on the video you posted, I was shocked to see how tinny the CS-5 really was.
Old 29th January 2018
  #77
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
It's a Andy's Moog Prodigy, no matter you see the name of the brand or not.
So what you said was absolutly accurate.
It made about 100% of the basslines on Speak and Spell.

For the video
Moog on left, Kawai in center, Yamaha on the right.


The Kawai was highly unreliable and, the money coming, Vince changed for a Jupiter-4 in august.
I can't see Vince in the above video of JCGE, is he playing the newer Moog(Membrane buttons)...?>

I could of actually met Vince Clarke in 86/87 but declined as I was a hardcore 15 year old Hip Hop head at the time, looking back - I missed an opportunity to meet one of the greatest synthesists & electronic musicians also of our time, maybe I could of got into synths earlier if I wasn't so blinkered as a teenager.
Old 29th January 2018
  #78
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
I can't see Vince in the above video of JCGE, is he playing the newer Moog(Membrane buttons)...?>

I could of actually met Vince Clarke in 86/87 but declined as I was a hardcore 15 year old Hip Hop head at the time, looking back - I missed an opportunity to meet one of the greatest synthesists & electronic musicians also of our time, maybe I could of got into synths earlier if I wasn't so blinkered as a teenager.
No I talked about the "new life"' video.
Old 29th January 2018
  #79
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
No I talked about the "new life"' video.
Yes, I got you, but you said he got A JP4 after that(Vince), but he is not the one playing it on JCGE - is Vince the guy playing the Moog(Source?) i.e. membrane on JCGE?
Old 29th January 2018
  #80
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post


In this video, at 0.30, you can see Dave Gahan talking about their reloationship with the tapes.

And on the video you posted, I was shocked to see how tinny the CS-5 really was.
Cool vid..
Old 29th January 2018
  #81
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
Yes, I got you, but you said he got A JP4 after that(Vince), but he is not the one playing it on JCGE - is Vince the guy playing the Moog(Source?) i.e. membrane on JCGE?
Ah ok. A lot of confusion.

Let's talk only about the JCGE video :

At that moment Vince had already left the band and Alan Wilder was hired just for the TV shows and live performances.

On the left, The Moog Source is played by Andy 'Fletch" Fletcher, maybe he was a Moog Addict.
Seriously, the Moogs were used mainly for bass and Andy is a former bassist so he ended up playing or as I suspect mimicking the bass on live shows.
He does nothing in studio. He's the Lol Tolhurst of Depeche Mode, without the bad behaviour...

In center, the Promars is played by Alan Wilder (It's not a Jupiter-4 because it was Vince synth and he left with it).
On records, save the first two Album were he was not yet in the studio, almost everything except the guitars are played arranged and programmed by him and the producer of the moment. HE is the synth-wizard of DM from 83/94.

On right, Martin Gore plays PPG Wave, he's the songwriter but does little in studio : playing guitars, backing vocals and occasionnal lead vocals, stripping and making bad taste joke to Andy, his best friend.

An excellent video of "who does what" during a 1993 concert :
Old 30th January 2018
  #82
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post

An excellent video of "who does what" during a 1993 concert :
Lol.

Fletch: I’ve forgotten my keyboard parts for Policy of truth.

Alan: It’s C.
Old 30th January 2018
  #83
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basehead617's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
An excellent video of "who does what" during a 1993 concert :
Is this just someone who got a sample disc from Alan Wilder's auction or do they have actual knowledge that these were the parts played by those 3?

I always sort of assumed that people played the parts of tracks live, or else played backing tracks.. for some reason it never occurred to me that people would perform songs just by slicing up the parts and triggering them like slices on the keyboard.

Quite a bit easier no doubt
Old 30th January 2018
  #84
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Lol.

Fletch: I’ve forgotten my keyboard parts for Policy of truth.

Alan: It’s C.
The sad part is that after shows Alan and Andy argued frequently because Fletch indeed forgot parts...

On a funny side, Alan sometime left a note on Fletch Keyboards before the show started. It was written "Be carefull, the synths are plugged tonight!"


Quote:
Is this just someone who got a sample disc from Alan Wilder's auction or do they have actual knowledge that these were the parts played by those 3?

I always sort of assumed that people played the parts of tracks live, or else played backing tracks.. for some reason it never occurred to me that people would perform songs just by slicing up the parts and triggering them like slices on the keyboard.

Quite a bit easier no doub
I don't know how the man did this video but your first hypothesis appears good to me. Maybe reading the comments of the video on the Tube would be informative.
Old 30th January 2018
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post
It's a Andy's Moog Prodigy, no matter you see the name of the brand or not.
So what you said was absolutly accurate.
It made about 100% of the basslines on Speak and Spell.

I wouldn't bet on that, because in the documentary "Synth britannica" Daniel Miller says: "the 2600 was used on all the DM albums I was involved with, especially the 1st album, which was really 1 of only 2 synths that we used" (the other synth used being the Jupiter-4).

So from what I understand all the sequencing, most of the basslines and much of the percussion (including Daniel's kick drum sound) were done with the ARP 2600 and ARP sequencer.
Old 30th January 2018
  #86
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael488 View Post
I wouldn't bet on that, because in the documentary "Synth britannica" Daniel Miller says: "the 2600 was used on all the DM albums I was involved with, especially the 1st album, which was really 1 of only 2 synths that we used" (the other synth used being the Jupiter-4).

So from what I understand all the sequencing, most of the basslines and much of the percussion (including Daniel's kick drum sound) were done with the ARP 2600 and ARP sequencer.
It would be an astonishing surprise from me.
But Daniel Miller is THE source so....
Old 30th January 2018
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak View Post

For the MC-4, someone above said it was used to synch ARP 2600 with Korg KR-55. Vince had been quoted to have been furious his Kawai 100-f not working with the MC-4. Alan, while not in the band at this time, has also said it was used on "Speak and Spell".
Again, i’ve never seen or heard any concrete evidence that the MC-4 was used on Speak & Spell. I’m more inclined to agree with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael488 View Post

…from what I understand all the sequencing, most of the basslines and much of the percussion (including Daniel's kick drum sound) were done with the ARP 2600 and ARP sequencer.
I’ve been looking for evidence for years. It’s a bit like what sequencer was used on Violator? I suspect it was a mix of BBC/UMI and Pro 24 on Atari (I’ve seen a photo of both computers being used during the Violator pre production sessions) but i’ve never read anything to confirm my suspicions.
Old 30th January 2018
  #88
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raffor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael488 View Post
I wouldn't bet on that, because in the documentary "Synth britannica" Daniel Miller says: "the 2600 was used on all the DM albums I was involved with, especially the 1st album, which was really 1 of only 2 synths that we used" (the other synth used being the Jupiter-4).

So from what I understand all the sequencing, most of the basslines and much of the percussion (including Daniel's kick drum sound) were done with the ARP 2600 and ARP sequencer.
I don’t believe the ARP 2600 covered that much on early DM material. I think it is mainly the kick and some sequenced percussion. Most of the other sounds are fairly simple and most likely come from the other synths the band owned at that time.

Also, Dave Graham said in one of his insterviews that Speak and Spell was recorded in 4 weeks with lots of manual input instead of sequencing. So, my guess is that Daniel went over the songs and added here and there and maybe replaced synth lines.
Old 30th January 2018
  #89
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If only there had been a documentary crew following them around for the making of the Violator and Music for the Masses albums.
Old 31st January 2018
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
If only there had been a documentary crew following them around for the making of the Violator and Music for the Masses albums.
This is about as close as it gets:

DEPECHE MODE - INTERVIEW EMISSION TV Rapido 13.05.1990] - video Dailymotion
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