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Moog Sub 37
Old 21st May 2018
  #2731
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msflsim View Post
Has anyone noticed oscillator bleed when everything is off in the mixer? On my recently upgraded Sub 37 to Subsequent 37 I can hear a faint sound of ocs2 coming through. It gets louder if i turn the feedback or multidrive up

Anyone?
I have a vanilla Sub 37 here and that is completely silent - zero bleed with feedback, multidrive and osc levels turned up, and listening with so much gain that the hiss (noise floor) sounds like a storm. I'd think that the Subsequent should be silent too.
Old 23rd May 2018
  #2732
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by msflsim View Post
Has anyone noticed oscillator bleed when everything is off in the mixer? On my recently upgraded Sub 37 to Subsequent 37 I can hear a faint sound of ocs2 coming through. It gets louder if i turn the feedback or multidrive up

Anyone?
Have you contacted Moog or your local Moog support about that? I would hesitate to upgrade if it was considered normal.
Old 24th May 2018
  #2733
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string6theory's Avatar
I’ve been contemplating the Sub-37 upgrade too. The keyboard has always been my least liked aspect. It pales next to the Voyager and D. And, while I very much applaud allowing owners the ability to upgrade, I just wish they’d go ahead and specify a Fatar keyboard for this. It would sure make it easier to justify the upgrade cost (+ shipping) while also knowing that you're getting back your Sub-37 with a high-quality Fatar keyboard, as opposed to just another unknown set of keys that you may or may not like much (or a little) better.

Anyway, it just seems like a strange decision when Fatar is frequently specified - even on the new $900 Grand Mother. An upgraded Sub-37 and Subsequent-37 deserve Fatar too.

Bravo (in advance) for considering this wise revision team Moog!

Old 24th May 2018
  #2734
Gear Addict
 

I did the upgrade. Keyboard upgrade was not worth it. Sound upgrade, maybe was worth it.

I thought the new keyboard would have been nicer.
Old 24th May 2018
  #2735
Gear Addict
 
msflsim's Avatar
 

I did and was told it is not the expected behavior, its at the shop getting looked at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modulosonoro View Post
Have you contacted Moog or your local Moog support about that? I would hesitate to upgrade if it was considered normal.
Old 24th May 2018
  #2736
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone1313 View Post
I did the upgrade. Keyboard upgrade was not worth it. Sound upgrade, maybe was worth it.

I thought the new keyboard would have been nicer.
Ok... I was almost convinced to have the whole upgrade done but my priotity would be the keyboard as the Sub makes a nice midi controller with the usb and midi connectivity etc. But if it‘s like that... I need to go to a shop that has a Subsequent to try the keys myself.

Last edited by modulosonoro; 24th May 2018 at 05:12 PM.. Reason: Typo
Old 24th May 2018
  #2737
F5D
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F5D's Avatar
 

I have no problems with the keybed of the Sub 37. I could understand if somebody with fast fingers and playing style might want to replace it with a lighter one, but to me it feels good. It is definitely the keybed with the strongest springs of all my mono keyboards, but I am fine with it. Afterall, it is not a low quality keybed, like the one in the MS-20 kit for example. At the moment, I am not planning to upgrade my Sub 37, the sound is fine as well.
Old 25th May 2018
  #2738
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulosonoro View Post
Ok... I was almost convinced to have the whole upgrade done but my priotity would be the keyboard as the Sub makes a nice midi controller with the usb and midi connectivity etc. But if it‘s like that... I need to go to a shop that has a Subsequent to try the keys myself.
Okay I have just been to a store. I couldn‘t compare Sub to Subsequent directly but the Subsequent they had felt alsmost worse than my Sub 37 at home. Compared to the new Minimoog they had there it was clearly worse. Not that it was totally ****ty or anything, way better than the Minibrutes they had for example, but just not what you would expect from a so called improved keybed.
Old 5th June 2018
  #2739
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
I've found a very fixable problem with my Subsequent 37 CV..... this is also a total Sub 37 series issue.

When using the Arp or step sequencer in any non-midi live situation, it is almost impossible to easily use the rate knob to match tempos or to double up your tempo to match a current tempo because the Sub 37 series synths do not show the current tempo in the LCD screen! Most synths do show the tempo, including the cheap Novation Bass Station 2!!! IMHO this is a serious oversight by Moog and needs to be corrected for proper live use.

I contacted Moog and they confirmed it does not do it, I then asked for this easy fix to be added to the next firmware upgrade. The tech said it has been requested already and if enough owners request it is could be added.

So I'm asking the entire Sub 37 community to please contact Moog and request that the LCD show the rate tempo!! This basic feature should already be available IMHO.

Moog Music tech support
(828) 251-0090
800-948-1990
[email protected]

Thanks for any support on getting this corrected.
Old 5th June 2018
  #2740
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
I've found a very fixable problem with my Subsequent 37 CV..... this is also a total Sub 37 series issue.

When using the Arp or step sequencer in any non-midi live situation, it is almost impossible to easily use the rate knob to match tempos or to double up your tempo to match a current tempo because the Sub 37 series synths do not show the current tempo in the LCD screen! Most synths do show the tempo, including the cheap Novation Bass Station 2!!! IMHO this is a serious oversight by Moog and needs to be corrected for proper live use.

I contacted Moog and they confirmed it does not do it, I then asked for this easy fix to be added to the next firmware upgrade. The tech said it has been requested already and if enough owners request it is could be added.

So I'm asking the entire Sub 37 community to please contact Moog and request that the LCD show the rate tempo!! This basic feature should already be available IMHO.

Moog Music tech support
(828) 251-0090
800-948-1990
[email protected]

Thanks for any support on getting this corrected.
Email sent!
Old 5th June 2018
  #2741
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
...
I contacted Moog and they confirmed it does not do it, I then asked for this easy fix to be added to the next firmware upgrade. The tech said it has been requested already and if enough owners request it is could be added.
Grrr! Not that BS again (it's not only Moog that does this). It has been requested 18737170283899 times on their forum.

Apparently Moog no longer reads or participates in their own forum. A year or two back, they'd chime in on threads confirming that bugs were picked up, or respond to some questions/requests. Now the forum is a stonewall. I find that very disappointing, and very unlike the Moog I initially knew.

I'll send them a mail with the BPM display request and more!
Old 11th February 2019
  #2742
Here for the gear
 

I have this random issue where a particular patch doesn't play right away during a patch change, its only a second delay and only on that particular patch which is weird. sending patch change messages via midi USB. delay setting is off. any takers?
Old 8th March 2019
  #2743
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XAXAU's Avatar
Anyone know how to use the duo mode?

When I sequence dual notes one of the notes always jumps out of the duo mode when the sustain portion is over so the notes can’t release together.

I can make the notes longer but that renders sustain totally useless when in duo mode.

Dunno what to do here???
Old 9th March 2019
  #2744
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
...
When I sequence dual notes one of the notes always jumps out of the duo mode when the sustain portion is over so the notes can’t release together.
...
This is how it's designed: for the release phase of any of the two notes they will snap to the same one (or the interval the two VCOs are tuned to). There's also only the one amp envelope, of course, so the oscillators can't have separate release phases. I like this and rely on it for the paraphonic playing style I use, but I can see how it's a nuisance for in some cases.

Other paraphonics I have will only play one oscillator per key at all times, with separate envelopes. In an ideal world there would be a switch to select the two ways of doing it...
Old 9th March 2019
  #2745
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XAXAU's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
This is how it's designed: for the release phase of any of the two notes they will snap to the same one (or the interval the two VCOs are tuned to). There's also only the one amp envelope, of course, so the oscillators can't have separate release phases. I like this and rely on it for the paraphonic playing style I use, but I can see how it's a nuisance for in some cases.

Other paraphonics I have will only play one oscillator per key at all times, with separate envelopes. In an ideal world there would be a switch to select the two ways of doing it...
Cheers!

I mean why can’t they just use the same envelope? It’s not rocket science to make that happen. Should be a software issue.

I never noticed this when I had a Sub 37 a few years ago. Got a subsequent now. I remember I was jamming in duo mode a lot but now it’s unplayable. Sort of.
Old 9th March 2019
  #2746
Gear Addict
 
Darxxxell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
Cheers!

I mean why can’t they just use the same envelope? It’s not rocket science to make that happen. Should be a software issue.

I never noticed this when I had a Sub 37 a few years ago. Got a subsequent now. I remember I was jamming in duo mode a lot but now it’s unplayable. Sort of.
Yeah, posts like this have put me off even trying it tbh but the other day I was playing a patch and couldn’t stop! It sounded magic. I do wonder if the Subsequent 37 would sound even better better but it was absolutely rocking my boat!!!!!
Old 9th March 2019
  #2747
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
Cheers!

I mean why can’t they just use the same envelope? It’s not rocket science to make that happen. Should be a software issue.

I never noticed this when I had a Sub 37 a few years ago. Got a subsequent now. I remember I was jamming in duo mode a lot but now it’s unplayable. Sort of.
Both oscillators do use the same envelope, and I don’t think duo mode behavior has changed since the Sub 37 was released. Has it?
Old 9th March 2019
  #2748
Lives for gear
 
XAXAU's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Analog View Post
Both oscillators do use the same envelope, and I don’t think duo mode behavior has changed since the Sub 37 was released. Has it?
Dunno, it feels like it tho!

The weird thing is that both oscillators are using the same envelope up until the sustain phase is over, then one note snaps back to whichever note is on priority, low or high!
Old 9th March 2019
  #2749
Lives for gear
 
XAXAU's Avatar
Also, if there was a mode where both hi and lo note priority could be switched in so that one note always equals one osc each that would be great!
Old 9th March 2019
  #2750
roc
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roc's Avatar
 

Can the sub 37 do that boards of canada detune drift ?
Old 9th March 2019
  #2751
Gear Addict
 
Darxxxell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Can the sub 37 do that boards of canada detune drift ?
I’d love to give that a try.
Could you kindly provide a link for an example and I’ll have some trying it tomorrow
Old 9th March 2019
  #2752
Lives for gear
 
DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Analog View Post
Both oscillators do use the same envelope, and I don’t think duo mode behavior has changed since the Sub 37 was released. Has it?
No, it has not changed.

@ XAXAU : yes it would be technically possible, running an envelope per oscillator pre filter, using the mixer VCAs, and not doing the same note snap-back (as some synths do).
Old 9th March 2019
  #2753
roc
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roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darxxxell View Post
I’d love to give that a try.
Could you kindly provide a link for an example and I’ll have some trying it tomorrow
Ok , wow where to start , they have a whole galaxy of that vibe and their technique has probably been debated more than any other group in history , it's been a mystery for so long but hey it's fun to try . So here's a couple examples take your pick .

I believe you'll hear it from the start the lead sound and the pads



Also this whole song really , drift and wobble right from the frekin gate . Good luck

Old 9th March 2019
  #2754
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Ok , wow where to start , they have a whole galaxy of that vibe and their technique has probably been debated more than any other group in history , it's been a mystery for so long but hey it's fun to try . So here's a couple examples take your pick .

I believe you'll hear it from the start the lead sound and the pads



Also this whole song really , drift and wobble right from the frekin gate . Good luck

Very doable.

These warbly sounds are actually quite basic, and pretty much any synth can produce them. It's a filtered saw-ish wave with slow and/or slight pitch modulation.
Old 9th March 2019
  #2755
Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Can the sub 37 do that boards of canada detune drift ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darxxxell View Post
I’d love to give that a try.
Could you kindly provide a link for an example and I’ll have some trying it tomorrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Ok , wow where to start , they have a whole galaxy of that vibe and their technique has probably been debated more than any other group in history , it's been a mystery for so long but hey it's fun to try . So here's a couple examples take your pick .

I believe you'll hear it from the start the lead sound and the pads



Also this whole song really , drift and wobble right from the frekin gate . Good luck

That detuned drift that they're famous for is not due to the synths, but due to their recording techniques; specifically recording on old tape machines (including old VHS tapes.) In their own words, they're "not recreating a mood of what was, but rather creating a fictitious history that brings out feelings." They incorporate sounds of what is influencing them at the time, with their main influence for their sound and aesthetic being this:

Old 10th March 2019
  #2756
Gear Addict
 
Darxxxell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
That detuned drift that they're famous for is not due to the synths, but due to their recording techniques; specifically recording on old tape machines (including old VHS tapes.) In their own words, they're "not recreating a mood of what was, but rather creating a fictitious history that brings out feelings." They incorporate sounds of what is influencing them at the time, with their main influence for their sound and aesthetic being this:

I absolutely loved every moment of that. Thank you.
Old 10th March 2019
  #2757
Gear Addict
 
Darxxxell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Ok , wow where to start , they have a whole galaxy of that vibe and their technique has probably been debated more than any other group in history , it's been a mystery for so long but hey it's fun to try . So here's a couple examples take your pick .

I believe you'll hear it from the start the lead sound and the pads



Also this whole song really , drift and wobble right from the frekin gate . Good luck

Awesome. I shall get back to you if and when I come up with something. Thank you!
Old 10th March 2019
  #2758
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Can the sub 37 do that boards of canada detune drift ?
In the Sub 37 editor there is actually a preset called BOC PAD. Sounds quite good in its own way.
Old 11th March 2019
  #2759
roc
Lives for gear
 
roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drglas View Post
In the Sub 37 editor there is actually a preset called BOC PAD. Sounds quite good in its own way.
Thanks man thats really cool , I'm on the hunt for a 37 cv .
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2760
Gear Addict
any users that still own this care to comment on how it holds up?
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