Originally Posted by fromthepuggle

I spent a LOT of time comparing it, a/b, to logic's tape echo plugin. so long as you keep the knobs in the same place, don't use spring reverb, and don't overdrive it, so long as you cut some of the highs and lows on the plugin with it's built in sliders for this, you can get the plugin to sound near indistinguishable to the re-201. the minor differences aren't about quality but eq.

Originally Posted by fromthepuggle

if it was cheap and no maintenance, of course, why not have the real thing. but it's neither. a cheap re-150 prob makes sense, but not an re-201 at today's prices.

Originally Posted by matucha

To my surprise RE201 isn't that expensive compared to what people want for RE501 these days.

Originally Posted by adhmzaiusz

I don't understand this hype about the RE501. Probably something to do with the feature set but nothing is really mind blowing.

I have both the 201 and 501 and the 501 sounds like garbage in comparison to my ears. Mind you, it's still cool, but has no magic whatsoever. I have 2 201's and man, there is really something there that is special. Both of mine sound uniquely different from one another but equally as good. The older model I have has more splashy/twangy reverb that sounds very good in the upper mids while the later one sounds very balanced overall. I can't get enough of space echos for some reason... I've owned about 5 total now and would probably buy more if they came up for sale at a good price... I think I'll always try and own 2 201's at all times.

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

I agree, the 501 is too clean. The 301 strikes a better balance between features and grit.

I have a love/hate relationship with the 201. I regretted selling my first (made in the mid 70's) and I find my current second one (late 80's) just doesn't have the same vibe.

In the meantime I've discovered the Multivox MX-201 and it's rapidly becoming my favorite go-to tape echo. I always wanted a Korg Stage Echo for the interesting features (push button selection for playback heads, reverb can be added to echoes and feedback, sound on sound) but they are very clean sounding, much like the RE-501. The Multivox has many of the Korg features -- including selecting the echo and feedback heads separately, "swell" reverb on echoes and feedback which can get pretty insane, and a very useful sound on sound that doesn't annoyingly erase your loop (like the Rolands) and you can also 'lock in' the current loop with a footswitch -- but it also has the grit that I liked about my original 201. I'm seriously contemplating selling my 201 and a few other tape echoes in my stable because this little gem covers a lot of the bases I wanted from tape. Bonus: can be found for much cheaper than any Roland echo.

Originally Posted by autoy

- Single repeat mode: chorus echos have single repeats, so there's this trick (I later heard Adrian Utley from Portishead was a fan of doing this too) where 0 intensity and shortest delay time essentially gives you just the tape saturation as an effect, becoming a tape processor where you control the output quality with the tape speed.

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

You can do this on the 201 but the Chorus Echoes have a convenient button to turn off the dry signal. If you don't turn off the dry you'll get a slapback.

Originally Posted by our_soul

Interesting, how can this be done on the 201?

Originally Posted by matucha

You need to use "form PA" input. There is a switch built into that socket that turns off the DRY signal when something is plugged in. And yes you can use other inputs too at that point. So a dummy jack plugged in the "from PA" does the job.

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

This is essentially using the first head in single echo modes with a completely wet signal (and yes, there is a slight lag depending on the tape speed). You can do this on the 201 but the Chorus Echoes have a convenient button to turn off the dry signal. If you don't turn off the dry you'll get a slapback.



The Roland ones are actually expression pedal inputs (not sure on the Korg ones, but the manuals state -5V to +5v so it looks like it's made for an MS-01) so it provides a reference voltage on a TRS which is attenuated and returned on another channel on the same cable. With some creative plugging you can just feed the return voltage with CV but I've heard of people either burning out the motors (feeding it CV above it's tolerances) or saturating the expression input this way (shorting the reference to the return and pumping more current than expected through it) where the tape speed becomes temporarily 'stuck'.

There are some interesting debates regarding the 301 and 501 over which has the more useful sound on sound. The 301 places the SOS head near the start of the head chain (before the erase head) and the 501 puts it at the end of the chain. However, a big minus of the Roland machines is they don't deactivate the erase head -- so your loop only plays one more time before getting erased. Another minus is that reverb and feedback are NOT included in the SOS -- you'll hear the verb on the dry signal and feedback on the initial delay though.

The Korg SE-500 doesn't deactivate the erase head so you can properly overdub multiple times onto the loop. The Korg also uses the SOS head as a 'long' delay head effectively making it 4 playback head machine. SE-500 sadly has no reverb like the SE-300 (but the 300 doesn't have SOS or the long delay).

One of the reasons why I'm digging the Multivox is that it also uses the SOS as a fourth delay head (like the Korg) and allows both feedback and reverb in the SOS signal -- and you can use a footswitch to stop new recording to the loop and then play on top of the looping signal without making it too muddy. It doesn't have CV in to the motor, but that's why I keep a RE-301 (also for the chorus).

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

This is essentially using the first head in single echo modes with a completely wet signal (and yes, there is a slight lag depending on the tape speed). You can do this on the 201 but the Chorus Echoes have a convenient button to turn off the dry signal. If you don't turn off the dry you'll get a slapback.



The Roland ones are actually expression pedal inputs (not sure on the Korg ones, but the manuals state -5V to +5v so it looks like it's made for an MS-01) so it provides a reference voltage on a TRS which is attenuated and returned on another channel on the same cable. With some creative plugging you can just feed the return voltage with CV but I've heard of people either burning out the motors (feeding it CV above it's tolerances) or saturating the expression input this way (shorting the reference to the return and pumping more current than expected through it) where the tape speed becomes temporarily 'stuck'.

There are some interesting debates regarding the 301 and 501 over which has the more useful sound on sound. The 301 places the SOS head near the start of the head chain (before the erase head) and the 501 puts it at the end of the chain. However, a big minus of the Roland machines is they don't deactivate the erase head -- so your loop only plays one more time before getting erased. Another minus is that reverb and feedback are NOT included in the SOS -- you'll hear the verb on the dry signal and feedback on the initial delay though.

The Korg SE-500 doesn't deactivate the erase head so you can properly overdub multiple times onto the loop. The Korg also uses the SOS head as a 'long' delay head effectively making it 4 playback head machine. SE-500 sadly has no reverb like the SE-300 (but the 300 doesn't have SOS or the long delay).

One of the reasons why I'm digging the Multivox is that it also uses the SOS as a fourth delay head (like the Korg) and allows both feedback and reverb in the SOS signal -- and you can use a footswitch to stop new recording to the loop and then play on top of the looping signal without making it too muddy. It doesn't have CV in to the motor, but that's why I keep a RE-301 (also for the chorus).

Originally Posted by autoy

The other feature I've yet to try in the Chorus Echo is the utility of having different effects applied to the 2 separate outputs, described in the manual as "pseudo stereo" although it really has nothing to do with stereo. Interesting nevertheless, to use each output as a separate effects return.

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

I believe this just separates the dry and wet signals across two outputs but I'll test it on the 301 when I get home tonight. This pseudo stereo scheme is on a lot of other Roland products that have a bucket brigade chorus - where the dry and the delayed/phased signal are on L and R outputs respectively. Jupiter 4 is a good example. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chorus Echoes output their chorus in this way as well. The second output is a switch jack so if there's nothing in it then you get the mono mix out of the main output.

Originally Posted by pelican

I tell you one thing these are hell to work on. Anyone have any tips?

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

If you can access and work on the boards without removing them then a Hakko 808 or FR-300 are your best friends. I don't think I've encountered a tape delay that *doesn't* have the boards in awkward places and weren't a pain in the ass to take apart. Reverb tanks are a pain, the RCA plugs always seem to go intermittent or come completely loose. Roland started to tie wrap the plugs at one point.

I recently fixed the inputs on the Multivox which were too quiet and the VU meter wasn't working right -- had to just plow it with signal to get it to budge. Bad ground on a dual opamp was the culprit (one side of the amp was the instrument inputs and the other side was the driver for the VU meter). While I had it open I also took the opportunity to socket the opamp and experiment with different generations (read as cleanliness) of op amps. This is a late 70's built tape echo, using technology from the late 60's. Some very interesting results -- and I've kept a more modern (ok, 1980's) op amp in there -- the Mic inputs still have the original 741's there if I want the old grit. Works a treat now.

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

I believe this just separates the dry and wet signals across two outputs but I'll test it on the 301 when I get home tonight. This pseudo stereo scheme is on a lot of other Roland products that have a bucket brigade chorus - where the dry and the delayed/phased signal are on L and R outputs respectively. Jupiter 4 is a good example. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chorus Echoes output their chorus in this way as well. The second output is a switch jack so if there's nothing in it then you get the mono mix out of the main output.

Originally Posted by Topjimmy52

Roland Space Echo RE 201 Reverb and adjustment.
Rediscovering my 201 lately. Just serviced it including a new reverb pan from MOD.
Wanted to share the improvements w/ all.
Been reading a lot of shortcomings on the old stock reverb sound.
Shane at echo fix has been really helpful w/ tips on his overhaul kit and also adjusting the reverb.
I realize now that when I got my latest 201 a few months ago, the reverb adjustment was cranked all the way up. It sounded really harsh and not very useable. Installed the new MOD reverb pan and adjusted the screw in the back panel and what a difference!
Im running the screw gain adjustment about 40-50% up vs previous totally cranked for old pan.This gives a healthy initial 30% up front on the reverb knob. Used subtly, it is now a very musical addition to the tape delay whilst playing guitar. Also very fun lush when cranked for dub mixing. Own a vintage 63 fender reverb unit and a Vicky Reverberato. This will never be that. However, still very useful in the space echo context. So for those of you who are on the fence w/ your old units, I can't recommend enough to follow up on getting your units some TLC and trying out a fresh reverb pan and adjustment. Given the value on these currently, its modest investment and fun geek out. Cheers!

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

In the meantime I've discovered the Multivox MX-201 and it's rapidly becoming my favorite go-to tape echo. I always wanted a Korg Stage Echo for the interesting features (push button selection for playback heads, reverb can be added to echoes and feedback, sound on sound) but they are very clean sounding, much like the RE-501. The Multivox has many of the Korg features -- including selecting the echo and feedback heads separately, "swell" reverb on echoes and feedback which can get pretty insane, and a very useful sound on sound that doesn't annoyingly erase your loop (like the Rolands) and you can also 'lock in' the current loop with a footswitch -- but it also has the grit that I liked about my original 201. I'm seriously contemplating selling my 201 and a few other tape echoes in my stable because this little gem covers a lot of the bases I wanted from tape. Bonus: can be found for much cheaper than any Roland echo.