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Prophet 12 *Rack* announced
Old 21st October 2013
  #121
If they had included all the knobs from the P12, it would be twice the size. More than likely thickness would increase, as well as a few rack spaces of height. I quite like the form factor and layout. It looks clean and simple.

The layout looks very intuitive to me, as a Tempest owner I can say that programming via the OLED is very simple. And with quick access buttons for each section, I can't see this being hard at all. At least it's not a matrix!
Old 21st October 2013
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natrixgli View Post
If they had included all the knobs from the P12, it would be twice the size. More than likely thickness would increase, as well as a few rack spaces of height. I quite like the form factor and layout. It looks clean and simple.

The layout looks very intuitive to me, as a Tempest owner I can say that programming via the OLED is very simple. And with quick access buttons for each section, I can't see this being hard at all. At least it's not a matrix!
Legitimate claim. But then - why 2k ?
Old 21st October 2013
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natrixgli View Post
If they had included all the knobs from the P12, it would be twice the size. More than likely thickness would increase, as well as a few rack spaces of height. I quite like the form factor and layout. It looks clean and simple.

The layout looks very intuitive to me
it would be even simpler and cleaner without knobs :D

what so intuitive about knobless box?
Old 21st October 2013
  #124
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massimo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
as an owner of one i can tell you its desirable because of its SOUND, not because of "phenomenal" user interface.. we just put up with it , because we have to. it aint bad per se, but... id take a design with even 20 knobs over this any time of day.. if it sounded the same.


also, just because someone made something certain way 30yrs ago, doesn't imply we have to put up with it today. imo looking at P12 keyboard price/knobs is a much better/relevant context for comparison to P12 rack, than referring to specific vintages. and that one leaves many underwhelmed, including me.
The Xpander is a deep synth. I believe anyone who owns one must have spent quite a lot of time learning and programming it in order to get the best out of it. Once one becomes familiar with its clever interface, everything is smooth, straightforward, not more than one click away. So, yes, I am one of those definitely not underwhelmed by the wonderful user interface of the Xpander
best regards
Massimo
Old 21st October 2013
  #125
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Legitimate claim. But then - why 2k ?
They've managed to shave 1/3 off the price by slimming down the interface and ditching the keys. But the voice architecture is still the same. You could make it cheaper still by reducing the number of voices, but then it wouldn't be a prophet 12.

I think $2k is a fair price.
Old 21st October 2013
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natrixgli View Post
They've managed to shave 1/3 off the price by slimming down the interface and ditching the keys. But the voice architecture is still the same. You could make it cheaper still by reducing the number of voices, but then it wouldn't be a prophet 12.

I think $2k is a fair price.
He didn't say 2k dollars, he said 2k euro... So that's like $2,700...

"Dave Smith:
Den exakten Preis kann ich noch nicht sagen, ich denke grob so um die 2.000 Euro?"
Old 21st October 2013
  #127
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo View Post
The Xpander is a deep synth. I believe anyone who owns one must have spent quite a lot of time learning and programming it in order to get the best out of it. Once one becomes familiar with its clever interface, everything is smooth, straightforward, not more than one click away. So, yes, I am one of those definitely not underwhelmed by the wonderful user interface of the Xpander
best regards
Massimo
I got a Xpander too, but since I got THIS Xplorer - realtime editor for Oberheim Xpander / Matrix-12, I haven't touched the knobs
Old 21st October 2013
  #128
ozy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Systolic View Post
He didn't say 2k dollars, he said 2k euro... So that's like $2,700...
no.

prices in euro for American synthesizers (including DSI synths) match dollar prices, due to high taxes and customs in Euroland

The prophet08 is 1999 both in eur and in us$

This discussion already happened maybe 10.000 times...
Old 21st October 2013
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natrixgli View Post
They've managed to shave 1/3 off the price by slimming down the interface and ditching the keys. But the voice architecture is still the same. You could make it cheaper still by reducing the number of voices, but then it wouldn't be a prophet 12.

I think $2k is a fair price.
As i've said before, look at the PEK - PER, and the P08 - P08 desktop.
The PER was a knobless rack version of the polyevolver and it cost half of what the Polyevolver did. Not a 1/3 off, but 1/2 off!
The Prophet 08 desktop on the other hand cost 1500$ but has all the knobs. That's 1/4 off.

Quote:
If they had included all the knobs from the P12, it would be twice the size.
The P08 desktop has all the knobs the keyboard version has. It looks exactly the same size the P12 desktop is.
Old 21st October 2013
  #130
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DarkPlasma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPCompany View Post
A bit disappointing that such an in depth synth has so little hands on control
+1

I rather save up and get the keyboard version.
Old 21st October 2013
  #131
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massimo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvfur View Post
I got a Xpander too, but since I got THIS Xplorer - realtime editor for Oberheim Xpander / Matrix-12, I haven't touched the knobs
I have Xplorer. Clever and handy. But in general I keep computers away from my workflow, so I only use it to store/backup patches

best regards
Massimo
Old 21st October 2013
  #132
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ForWerd's Avatar
 

I was a little disappointed when I saw the lack of knobs on the module P12. But I thought about how the Tempest put the display to great use. With the Tempest I found myself using the knobs around the display to adjust parameters far more often than the dedicated knobs, especially when initially dialing in a sound. I'm excited for this new offering. However, I can't see it going for more than $1500 USD considering the lack of knobs.
Old 21st October 2013
  #133
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m127f's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
I have VST editors for very single one.
Namely? Which racks with VST editors do you have? Just curious.



.
Old 21st October 2013
  #134
F5D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPlasma View Post
+1
I rather save up and get the keyboard version.
Without investigating further, I believe that is the point of the module, especially its price. Not too far away from the keyboard.
Old 21st October 2013
  #135
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xanax's Avatar
Sorry guys but the P12 currently retails for 2599€ so 2K for the module is a lot closer to 1/5 off then 1/3 off...
Old 21st October 2013
  #136
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m127f's Avatar
 

This will definitely be an editor driven synth so you can have the p12.
Not buying it though. It's like a PER except that it was not designed for polychain. Not enough knobs for a pure rack version.
Definitely the best deal is the p12k, but I don't have the space and the p12r is underwhelming for my setup. Pass.



.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #137
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I think Dave Smith was throwing a rough figure in the air.If the format of this stays the same i believe the pricing will be more like....

$2400
1750 euro
£1500

based on rough calculations what he charges for p08 keys and rack difference.don't take my word for it though
Old 22nd October 2013
  #138
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ForWerd's Avatar
 

Has there been any other products by DSI that were shown as prototype and actually made it to market?
Old 22nd October 2013
  #139
Gear Guru
It looks like old school Sequential design,.. .I like.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #140
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depulse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
It looks like old school Sequential design,.. .I like.
Yeah, why didn't Dave base it on the Prophet 2000 and use a 2 digit LED display and membrane switches also? Talk about old school Sequential design...
Old 22nd October 2013
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post
Euroland
The correct name would be EUSSR.


But the rack looks a bit Arpy to me.
And yeah it's not going to be cheap. But it's not just another VA.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #142
ozy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuse View Post
The correct name would be EUSSR.
uhm... or rather "4th Reich"

It's not National-Communist like Russia was, it's more Statist-Corporatist in the good (no), old (yes) German/Italian way [the German-vs-Italy squabble about efficiency within the common ideologic framework is a deja-vu as well]

Anyway:
Old 23rd October 2013
  #143
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crufty's Avatar
a fifth macro knob would be really handy

also arpeggiator button? best button on the PER
Old 31st October 2013
  #144
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXode View Post
I think it could be OK since it has that OLED screen and four knobs. I actually think it might be faster to program than many think, thanks to that layout.
Completely agree. The module layout looks sleek and fantastic, IMO.

I owned the P12 keyboard for about three weeks - and despite loving it - returned to the reseller for various reasons. Mainly, I felt that the cost-to-value ratio was off for my comfort level. As I told the reseller, if the the price point was $1K less, then the ratio would be right for me.

Anyway - the thing I found while programming the P12 is that the OLED really is where you focus most of your attention. With the keyboard unit, your eye frequently scans back and forth across the panel, getting visual feedback from the display. I found it quicker adjusting most of the parameters via the four main encoders.

So this module design does not in any way seem lacking to me. I bet I'd like it much more than the keyboard version. I saved off my custom P12 SysEx patches because I knew this day would arrive...

It only thing I find missing at this price point is true bi-timbral functionality - i.e., two separate MIDI channels. I haven't followed the DSI forum in a while to know if that is a forthcoming feature or not. Hopefully so.

By the way, with regard to external arpeggiator sync - why is Dave Smith opposed to Beat-Sync options? and only allow Key-Sync mode in his synth products?

...The Tempest is the only instrument in their catalog able to lock to MIDI Beat clock (not just MIDI timing clock).
Old 31st October 2013
  #145
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greenlights's Avatar
You can get a used keyboard from musicians friend for the price you're asking for.
Old 31st October 2013
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlights View Post
You can get a used keyboard from musicians friend for the price you're asking for.
Yeah, since I already have a keyboard that's better than the P12's, as long as it's not a really opaque interface this could turn out for the best.
Old 31st October 2013
  #147
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flowthrough's Avatar
Too expensive for me- I am not in the over $1,200 market at all.

But pricing looks like <$200 per voice- is that bad at all for an Analog synth?

Prophet 12 Desktop $2200 US -street price) (12 voices>> $183.33 per voice)

Tetra 4 $849 - street price) (4 voices>>> $212.25 per voice)
Old 31st October 2013
  #148
I'd rather get a much cheaper second hand Prophet 08 module than the P12 module if that's going to be the price of it.
Old 31st October 2013
  #149
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It's not only that it doesn't have enough knobs; it's that the closest knobs to the user is the resonance knob. Like the one knob you set and go. A filter envelope amount knob would be more useful, then resonance. Also, the cutoffs should be front and centre. This thing sounds great to my ears, but this layout, is horrible, (a direct aesthetic rip off of the Moog MG-1!?), littered with crappy plastic buttons, no dedicated lfo or envelope controls and basically a tiny screen to stare at while you can only change one component of the sound at a time? 'Really not too sure what the makers are thinking here... It's okay because, there is a vst that comes with it? Lame.
Old 1st November 2013
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mildheadwound View Post
It's not only that it doesn't have enough knobs; it's that the closest knobs to the user is the resonance knob. Like the one knob you set and go. A filter envelope amount knob would be more useful, then resonance. Also, the cutoffs should be front and centre.
I would rather think that all editing has to be done by the soft knobs and display. I guess DSI could not fit the PCboard into a tetra case, so they gave you some additional functionality what they thought is helpful at the time. I can imagine that these knobs could be re-routed in software, if they want to integrate that.

Personally, I thought the PE rack was nicer but they decided on a desktop version.
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