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Prophet 12 *Rack* announced
Old 20th October 2013
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post


One of the most desired and expensive synthesizers, the Oberheim matrix12/xpander

Am I alone in noticing it features just SIX knobs (plus the general volume)?

What matters is:

a) that the knobs are well-funcioning and don't upset you

b) that the menu structure and user interfaces are coherent with the machine's engine.
as an owner of one i can tell you its desirable because of its SOUND, not because of "phenomenal" user interface.. we just put up with it , because we have to. it aint bad per se, but... id take a design with even 20 knobs over this any time of day.. if it sounded the same.


also, just because someone made something certain way 30yrs ago, doesn't imply we have to put up with it today. imo looking at P12 keyboard price/knobs is a much better/relevant context for comparison to P12 rack, than referring to specific vintages. and that one leaves many underwhelmed, including me.
Old 20th October 2013
  #92
ozy
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Ok, I won't buy it then.

I'll buy a Sledge instead. Or a microbrute.

One knob per function, hence "more power".
Old 20th October 2013
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr73645 View Post
Actually you can't… this information is available in the interview.



I think that DS will profit a lot with me… I'm getting a Prophet 08 this christmas and I'll probably get the 12 next year… a proper full-sized-knobbed Prophet 12.

I don't understand why people didn't like this. Design-wise I think it's a great product and will provide enough controls for someone using in a home-studio enviroment. I'm just thinking about the keyboard version because it's the most beautiful instrument I've ever seen. :D
Actually, he says in the interview it won't be able to polychain. He thinks 12 voices are plenty
Old 20th October 2013
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post
Ok, I won't buy it then.

I'll buy a Sledge instead. Or a microbrute.

One knob per function, hence "more power".
Well, this one's got one knob perfunction, and has a lot of power:



Is this becoming insanely stupid or what?
Old 20th October 2013
  #95
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The P08-Desktop looks awesome, is totally analog, and has lots of knobs

I wonder why the P12 desktop had to be compromised as far as knobs are concerned ?

Old 20th October 2013
  #96
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It's a strange decision, for sure.
Old 20th October 2013
  #97
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Well the OLED display definitely enhances a lot of things, namely ADSR visualization and such which I guess makes knob per function less crucial then on the P08... Reducing the knob count also has the advantage of streamlining the layout making it clearer..yet still multi use endless encoders have their disadvantage as opposed to dedicated pots, I would have liked to see a better balance.. only having pots for cutoff & frequency feels really limiting on such complex synth .. I really hope they add a couple more pots and a touch slider or two to the final design.. that would also render the unit interesting for live use.. Hopefully things aren't set in stone yet & DSi are listening
Old 20th October 2013
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
Well the OLED display definitely enhances a lot of things, namely ADSR visualization and such which I guess makes knob per function less crucial then on the P08... Reducing the knob count also has the advantage of streamlining the layout making it clearer..yet still multi use endless encoders have their disadvantage as opposed to dedicated pots, I would have liked to see a better balance.. only having pots for cutoff & frequency feels really limiting on such complex synth .. I really hope they add a couple more pots and a touch slider or two to the final design.. that would also render the unit interesting for live use.. Hopefully things aren't set in stone yet & DSi are listening
I wouldn't count on DSI re-designing it, since it looks like they have already made some design commitments, and have a functioning unit, or maybe a prototype built already that will be going into production for early 2014 delivery.
Old 20th October 2013
  #99
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Looks like a cross between a Tetra and a SCi Six-Trak
Old 20th October 2013
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
I wouldn't count on DSI re-designing it, since it looks like they have already made some design commitments, and have a functioning unit, or maybe a prototype built already that will be going into production for early 2014 delivery.
I know probably wishful thinking on my part, but that unit showed by Dave IS a prototype, which means changes could still happen... FWIW tempest had a bunch of various designs before they committed to the production version..
Old 20th October 2013
  #101
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raffor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post


One of the most desired and expensive synthesizers, the Oberheim matrix12/xpander

Am I alone in noticing it features just SIX knobs (plus the general volume)?

What matters is:

a) that the knobs are well-funcioning and don't upset you

b) that the menu structure and user interfaces are coherent with the machine's engine.
I think the Xpander/Matrix-12 is a very good example of a great user interface. The rational is that you are working at one module at the time and all functions are up to two buttons away to be tweaked. I think that the user interface is even better than the one of the Waldorf XT where you have 32 knobs or so, since you still have to visit the menue for certain features.

Don't be fooled by the 6 encoders, there are plenty of buttons all over the surface and three displays. This is one instrument that sets still standards in my book.
Old 21st October 2013
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
On the other hand, if the Dave Smith synth suffered these shortcomings nobody AT ALL would buy them. That they are well equipped or technically correct in some way does not make up for the basic anemic sound they all put out.
I'm sorry you don't know how to program, but that's not a problem I have, personally.
Old 21st October 2013
  #103
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Releasing the current prototype design for anything over $1500 USD street price would be a mistake. The lack of knobs is severely disappointing, especially given that there's precedent in the Prophet '08 rack. The fact that the current design doesn't look like it can be properly racked without using up an extra 1u of space for cables is also disappointing. Why not go for a more slanted design? Hopefully some of the DSI folk will see this thread and react accordingly. This isn't at all what I had hoped for when I said that I wanted to see a Prophet 12 rack, and this current iteration reminds me of the rack synths of the late 80's and early 90's in the worst way possible.
Old 21st October 2013
  #104
The lack of knobs doesn't bother me really. I'm getting sued to having unknobby synths. I even program my tetra without the software. It's not as immediate but hell it works well enough. Not much different than the shruthi. No good for on the fly but I like to take my time coming up with sounds.

If this really is 2000 its out of my price range but considering the keys cost 3999 over here thats far cheaper.

I like where DSI are going though. I hope they keep with the hybrid theme. I really like the sound. Everyone is so obsessed with analog today and its ridiculous. There is so much room in the market for a great creative and interesting digital synth, and hybrids like this are a great thing. Hopefully we will see a tetra like 4 voice implementation. I'd snap one up for sure. I think I will start saving for this and hopefully by the time its out I can grab one.
Old 21st October 2013
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
If there will be a VST editor I am 100% game!!!!!

I don't touch any synths in my rack anyway, I have VST editors for very single one. Then to my other side all my keyboards with knobs I use with my hands.
I immediately thought the same thing. A software editor, and that little box could be one powerful studio music machine.
Old 21st October 2013
  #106
At first I wasn't interested, but after looking at the interface, I can see what Dave Smith is thinking. I can program the blofeld really quickly, and it has a similar combination of knobs / button screen. Same with the pulse.

The only thing that gets me, is that it won't rack properly. WTF? Also price.
Old 21st October 2013
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SovietSpaceChild View Post
This isn't at all what I had hoped for when I said that I wanted to see a Prophet 12 rack, and this current iteration reminds me of the rack synths of the late 80's and early 90's in the worst way possible.
Unless the interface actually is somehow fluid, I'd rather they cut the cost even further and put it in a 1 rack unit like the Poly Evolver Rack and just have a software editor as it's center for control. If they do follow through with this, hopefully the interface has some tricks up it's sleeve.
Old 21st October 2013
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebison View Post
At first I wasn't interested, but after looking at the interface, I can see what Dave Smith is thinking. I can program the blofeld really quickly, and it has a similar combination of knobs / button screen. Same with the pulse.

The only thing that gets me, is that it won't rack properly. WTF? Also price.
Mostly price.
Yes, there are lots of synths with a small amount of knobs\encoders and a set of buttons that makes programming a breeze. You mentioned the blofeld. There's also the shruthi\ambika (the latter has a more interesting sound than the P12, but that's subjective of course) etc etc. It's the price point which i don't get. Both in regards to what the keyboard costs - and in regards to what the P08 rack costs (it doesn't have the same features for sure, but has a LOT of knobs and for 1500$. So i'm thinking 2000$ makes sense for the P12 rack IF it had lots of knobs. If it doesn't - than it makes sense that a knobless P12 should cost just about a full on knob infested P08 rack).
Old 21st October 2013
  #109
Quote:
Originally Posted by rids View Post
Unless the interface actually is somehow fluid, I'd rather they cut the cost even further and put it in a 1 rack unit like the Poly Evolver Rack and just have a software editor as it's center for control. If they do follow through with this, hopefully the interface has some tricks up it's sleeve.
But DSI editors are made by soundtower which is probably THE crappest software company in existence.
Old 21st October 2013
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldphinga View Post
A few more knobs would have been nice i think at that price...Fine on the Tetra etc but not really great on something this pricey that demands hands on control. Would much rather it was like the P08 module which was well knobby!
Old 21st October 2013
  #111
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It's strange...I would expect a 4-5 voice knoby rack, but, they made a 12voice rack with a spartan interface and a big price. DSI doesn't work like this usually.
Old 21st October 2013
  #112
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Firechild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post


One of the most desired and expensive synthesizers, the Oberheim matrix12/xpander

Am I alone in noticing it features just SIX knobs (plus the general volume)?

What matters is:

a) that the knobs are well-funcioning and don't upset you

b) that the menu structure and user interfaces are coherent with the machine's engine.
I own one, but don´t use it much due to the lack of knobs however the sound is GREAT so the above is false. If the Xpander was a 1 knob per function synthesizer it would have been twice as expensive on the vintage market. Now it is way too cheap compared to other vintage synths like Prophet 5 and Memorymoog when speaking sonic quality.
Old 21st October 2013
  #113
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ohh, forgot to say that the new Prophet 12 rack/desktop thing is only born to boost the sales of the keyboard version. At least that was what I was thinking.. a rack version that you can´t put in a rack with no knobs for €2000 euros!!!! Now the Keyboard version is a BARGAIN!!!!!
Old 21st October 2013
  #114
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by owensands View Post
It will be a poly evolver rack round 2.
A more fitting name would perhaps be the "DSI Snow" That's what the form factor reminds me most of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
2) Is there a chance this isn't the final product?
I don't think so but I am very happy that they dropped the "BoomChik" name back in the day heh

DSI is very no-nonsense in the approach so there's probably not a big chance that things are going to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
Now it is way too cheap
No such thing.
Old 21st October 2013
  #115
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While there's no accounting for taste, I can't fathom that people think that this thing sounds 'too thin' or 'anemic' or any other kind of health problem, except maybe mental health - insane perhaps! This is the ballsiest DSI synth he's done. Totally a leap beyond the Evolver (which I do like) and the P08 (meh). Some of the demos are just mind blowing.
Old 21st October 2013
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr73645 View Post
Actually you can't… this information is available in the interview.
Ah, I don't read German... Really quite surprising that you can't!
Old 21st October 2013
  #117
ozy
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I stopped reading any of the above after they mentioned "anemic" with reference to the P08.

Also, seeing somebody comparing a polyphonic hardwired synth with memories and midi [p12, matrix12] to a pure mono modular [grp a4] made me despair about mankind's destiny
Old 21st October 2013
  #118
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by networkacid View Post
While there's no accounting for taste, I can't fathom that people think that this thing sounds 'too thin' or 'anemic' or any other kind of health problem, except maybe mental health - insane perhaps! This is the ballsiest DSI synth he's done. Totally a leap beyond the Evolver (which I do like) and the P08 (meh). Some of the demos are just mind blowing.
Well, as you say, there's no accounting for taste. I've listened to every demo that has been posted here and searched for others and my mind has remained resolutely un-blown. It's kind of fascinating, the way that these demos are always accompanied by comments like yours about them being "mind-blowing" but when I listen I just sit there blinking and wondering what I'm missing.

Gonna reserve final judgement until I've used one in person, though, and if I do end up liking it I'll be buying the keys not this pseudo-rack/module/whatever.
Old 21st October 2013
  #119
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Speaking for my self, lack of knobs would be absolutely fine if the rack cost a lot less than what it does now.

The P08 rack is great, I am buffled as to why DSI would not use the same recipe, especially at that price, but then again I don't make synths, I just like to use them.
Old 21st October 2013
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post
I stopped reading any of the above after they mentioned "anemic" with reference to the P08.

Also, seeing somebody comparing a polyphonic hardwired synth with memories and midi [p12, matrix12] to a pure mono modular [grp a4] made me despair about mankind's destiny
The GRP photo was in response to your post, in which you mentioned the microbrute (an analog mono without memories) as a synth with knob per function, while using it to try and prove a point that lots of knobs doesn't always mean "more power". So you were the first to mention a monosynth as a sort of comparison in a discussion about a hybrid poly.
So i think the "despair about mankind's destiny" is something you should think about in referrence to yourself.
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