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Prophet 12 *Rack* announced
Old 19th October 2013
  #61
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greenlights's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by anigbrowl View Post
I would say it looks a bit smaller front-to-back (I have a Tempest).

I hope he is trolling on the price. 2000 euros is a lot for any rack unit and for that it should have the knobby interface of the Prophet 08. I do not buy the idea of pricing on the # of voices because the marginal cost of adding extra voices is very low in these days of SMT, compared to manual building of circuit boards. A pick'n'place machine does not care whether the device you are building is analog or digital.
I have a Tempest too. I still think they're the same size. I was surprised at how small the Tempest was when I received it. Good layout on the Tempest though. Not so much with this.
Old 19th October 2013
  #62
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Love my P12. Such a fun instrument. The rack really looks terrible though, the UI is so good on the keyboard and the rack looks about as fun as the Mopho. Hopefully they'll add more controls.
Old 20th October 2013
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persemone View Post
Now, if only I could PolyChain for a Prophet '24....
Knowing Dave you can practically guarantee you'll be able to do that.
Old 20th October 2013
  #64
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Surely it can't cost $2K street. In the current form factor there is no way I'd pay more than 1400 - 1500. For 2K it should be knobbier.
Old 20th October 2013
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persemone View Post
The sound does need to be tamed. FWIW, Here's a short hand-played sample of some of my own P12 patches. Excuse the messy timing, bum notes and general amateur-ness here.... it was never meant to be anything other than an input test for personal use. I figure it might help folks who've heard nothing but metallic scrapes and atonal noises. Completely dry, direct, levels not optimised, no FX except for the last 20 secs which was a separate audio file where I added Valhalla Room.

Some really nice patches. I was playing a P12 today and the one thing that jumped out at me was how cheap the keybed feels for such an expensive synth; certainly compared to the key quality of Access or Nord in the same price range. It's got nothing on my KC, so I wouldn't mind a desktop version in that sense...but I wonder how easy it would be to assign parameters from the Virus, if the Prophet lacks knobs.
Old 20th October 2013
  #66
where have all the good pots gone ?!?


Old 20th October 2013
  #67
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Im not into the DSI sound at all as the MEK was my first synth. I had the skipping encoder version and I honestly thought all synths where that bad. It scarred me Totally not for me but how the hell are you expected to control 12 voices from that layout? It better have a damn sweet MOD matrix.
Old 20th October 2013
  #68
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I was really hoping to see a rack version of the Pro12 but as other post mentioned the price and form don't really match up. $1500 street as is seems a lot better. For what they're asking it should look more like an '08 rack or a tempest without pads.

Would have been great to have some of the effects sliders on it too. Feel like that's the biggest miss. I'll keep my eye on the used market for one though. I really like the sound of the 12 but have no interest in a monster keyboard.
Old 20th October 2013
  #69
I have to say a bit disappointed. I have been waiting for the rack/desktop version of this synth since it was announced. I didn't have a problem with the price point of the synth, I just don't have the room for the keys. I would much rather pay closer to the keyboard price and get a loaded module with all the knobs.
Old 20th October 2013
  #70
Knobs, no knobs, keys, no keys, 4 voices, 8 voices, 12 voices - pretty much all have the same basic sound. I'll refrain from describing it because you might like it more than I do.
Old 20th October 2013
  #71
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greenlights's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
Knobs, no knobs, keys, no keys, 4 voices, 8 voices, 12 voices - pretty much all have the same basic sound. I'll refrain from describing it because you might like it more than I do.
Please describe it.
Old 20th October 2013
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewsFromTheSky View Post
Maybe, but Ambika has half as many voices, no stereo out, no dual filters, no delay lines, and more aliasing, so it isn't a good alternative for everyone.
On the other hand, if the Dave Smith synth suffered these shortcomings nobody AT ALL would buy them. That they are well equipped or technically correct in some way does not make up for the basic anemic sound they all put out.
Old 20th October 2013
  #73
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I understand the need for stripping when the box becomes smaller.

But this, at $2000,- I really don't get.

I know Access and others can get away with but I'm the type of guy that only wants to use plugin editors when its a must and this new P12 desktop is really forcing having it connected to something else (meaning another controller or computer)

Really wanted one but not as stripped as this. At least give us twice the amount of knobs. Making music should be about having fun. Jumping in menu's is not fun in my book.
Old 20th October 2013
  #74
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I don't get it either. I really expected the P12 rack to have the same amount of controls as a P08 rack.
Having to cut so much on the controls and at that price :s... I'm really curious of this will sell. I can not imagine it will
Old 20th October 2013
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
On the other hand, if the Dave Smith synth suffered these shortcomings nobody AT ALL would buy them. That they are well equipped or technically correct in some way does not make up for the basic anemic sound they all put out.
Old 20th October 2013
  #76
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
Sadly, this almost seems more like a Prophet 12 polyphony expander to me than a true stand alone module, and that price is too high for a simple polyphony expander. Dave is a good guy so I hope I'm wrong about this, but I could see the Prophet 12 rack being a giant flop.
Old 20th October 2013
  #77
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Not a fan of the knobless interface. They don't do the p08 rack anymore do they?

Id go for the 12 keys or used 08 rack if space wss an issue.
Old 20th October 2013
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!! YES!!!!!!

Looks like connections at the top? Kinda difficult to mount it in a rack with something in the rack above it.

Seems like more of a desktop unit.
Old 20th October 2013
  #79
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^ Dave refers to it in the interview as a [desktop] module not a rack, also no poly chain
Old 20th October 2013
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OktoberStorm View Post
Not a fan of the knobless interface. They don't do the p08 rack anymore do they?

Id go for the 12 keys or used 08 rack if space was an issue.
AFAIK the P08 rack is still in production: they're still in stock at retailers and it isn't listed as discontinued on the DSI site, at least. That combination would be much more space-efficient from my point of view, too. Just an extra tier on an existing keyboard stand plus the racked P08.

Quote:
But this, at $2000,- I really don't get.
Then try €2000, equivalent to $2,736, which is the suggested price in Europe. Even subtracting VAT at 20% leaves a pre-tax price of $2280. We often have to pay a premium for US products here, but even so, I can't see the suggested retail in the US being any lower than $2000.

The combination of price, form-factor and UI just doesn't do it for me, but it's just a prototype at this stage.
Old 20th October 2013
  #81
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I'm a bit surprised they went for less controls rather than less voices.
OTOH if they want to cut the price they have to cut something.

That said there are 10 knobs and you should have no problem controlling it from them. You can control it all from the OLED/soft knobs/soft buttons interface. It's not a nice as knob per function but perfectly usable.

The other option would be to go for less voices but more controls.


I have the P12 keyboard so I think I'll file this under "someone else's problem".
Old 20th October 2013
  #82
ozy
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One of the most desired and expensive synthesizers, the Oberheim matrix12/xpander

Am I alone in noticing it features just SIX knobs (plus the general volume)?

What matters is:

a) that the knobs are well-funcioning and don't upset you

b) that the menu structure and user interfaces are coherent with the machine's engine.
Old 20th October 2013
  #83
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xanax's Avatar
even closer related the prophet vs rack:



Not sure following those 80s rack designs is the best course of action but you gotta love joystick & slider action!
Old 20th October 2013
  #84
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I don't see how polychain capability would have been that interesting anyway, considering how limited the voice allocation is.
Old 20th October 2013
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post


One of the most desired and expensive synthesizers, the Oberheim matrix12/xpander

Am I alone in noticing it features just SIX knobs (plus the general volume)?

What matters is:

a) that the knobs are well-funcioning and don't upset you

b) that the menu structure and user interfaces are coherent with the machine's engine.
The xpander also has 3 screens instead of one, has more buttons, and a numeric keypad. The P12 rack as shown in the picture is very far from the xpander.
Old 20th October 2013
  #86
ozy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
The xpander also has 3 screens instead of one, has more buttons, and a numeric keypad. The P12 rack as shown in the picture is very far from the xpander.
1) matrix's old LCD are way less defined and spacious than the prophet's screen. That's why you needed several of them.

2) a "numeric pad", by definition, doesn't add much to a "analogue style of programming".

Inputing "12" or "127" by definition presumes you design a patch in advance then input it. You don't "fiddle" with numeric pads

I don't like "fiddling", I think sounds first then program them,

so menus are fine with me, proviso that paramenters can be continuously modified (but you don't need 80 knobs for that)
Old 20th October 2013
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post
1) matrix's old LCD are way less defined and spacious than the prophet's screen. That's why you needed several of them.

2) a "numeric pad", by definition, doesn't add much to a "analogue style of programming".

Inputing "12" or "127" by definition presumes you design a patch in advance then input it. You don't "fiddle" with numerica pads.

I don't like "fiddling", I think sounds first then program them,

so menus are fine with me, proviso that paramenters can be continuously modified (but you don't need 80 knobs for that)
Of course you don't need 80 knobs. Take the Solaris for example. The number of knobs vs the number of parameters will probably give you an even bigger ratio in comparison to the P12 rack. But indeed its menu system makes it a breeze to program. So the question is:
1) How the system and navigation works on the rack version?

2) Is there a chance this isn't the final product?
Old 20th October 2013
  #88
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cr73645's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by networkacid View Post
Knowing Dave you can practically guarantee you'll be able to do that.
Actually you can't… this information is available in the interview.



I think that DS will profit a lot with me… I'm getting a Prophet 08 this christmas and I'll probably get the 12 next year… a proper full-sized-knobbed Prophet 12.

I don't understand why people didn't like this. Design-wise I think it's a great product and will provide enough controls for someone using in a home-studio enviroment. I'm just thinking about the keyboard version because it's the most beautiful instrument I've ever seen. :D
Old 20th October 2013
  #89
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silent5's Avatar
 

At a glance the interface reminds me of an improved version of the ESQ-1/SQ-80, which are already quite simple to program.
Old 20th October 2013
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
If there will be a VST editor I am 100% game!!!!!

I don't touch any synths in my rack anyway, I have VST editors for very single one. Then to my other side all my keyboards with knobs I use with my hands.
Yep I wouldnt touch this thing with a 10 foot pole if it didnt have a VST editor. It will be a poly evolver rack round 2.
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