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Strymon BIG SKY Reverb
Old 1st November 2013
  #91
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I really dislike the high and low end of the space. I usually have both set to zero, as well as the contour. Something about the high end is metallic, while the boomy low end + dispersion just makes it really muffled.
Old 1st November 2013
  #92
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One thing you should be aware of if you hook the Big Sky up to midi is that you should change the channel to not be the same as whatever keyboards you may be using because if you do a patch change on your keyboard you will find that all of a sudden your reverb changes dramatically. Seems obvious, but I think the default midi channel for the Big Sky is 1 which is a typical keyboard channel. Naturally, I had this happen to me. Was pretty funny to go from Cloud reverb to Magneto.
Old 1st November 2013
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous View Post
Sounds like you really struggled to find something that you liked about it.

Haha, great little report, thanks
Haha yeah. Sonically, it's bang on. There is one usability thing that's annoying: when you adjust certain parameters (ones that aren't reflected on the display) the LED for the current present turns orange to indicate a change has taken place. When you adjust other parameters which ARE reflected on the screen, the LED stays green. Kind of annoying behavior.
Old 1st November 2013
  #94
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel View Post
One thing you should be aware of if you hook the Big Sky up to midi is that you should change the channel to not be the same as whatever keyboards you may be using because if you do a patch change on your keyboard you will find that all of a sudden your reverb changes dramatically. Seems obvious, but I think the default midi channel for the Big Sky is 1 which is a typical keyboard channel. Naturally, I had this happen to me. Was pretty funny to go from Cloud reverb to Magneto.
Was it usable?

(sudden, interestingly dubsteppy space change effect or just abrupt sonic crapout?)
Old 1st November 2013
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous View Post
Was it usable?

(sudden, interestingly dubsteppy space change effect or just abrupt sonic crapout?)
If it was a controlled program change that would be one thing but it wasn't so I would say that was an abrupt unwanted change. It definitely sounded wrong.
Old 1st November 2013
  #96
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greenback's Avatar
 

thanks for all the feedback on this folks. it's helpful to us gearslut noobs.
selling gear and saving up for a new one SOON. can't wait!
Old 2nd November 2013
  #97
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ben_allison's Avatar
Big Sky, with its new friends.

Old 2nd November 2013
  #98
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Listening to some Chorale examples, I already have like several song ideas in my head that would utilize that effect.

That never happened with an FX unit before, so I think Strymon really hit the target with this one.

Will definitely buy one in the near future!
Old 2nd November 2013
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_allison View Post
Big Sky, with its new friends.

Just make sure you don't end up like this:
Old 2nd November 2013
  #100
Gear Maniac
 

Can you determine the rate of the shimmer?

Ie the blue sky and every other shimmer fx out there has a fixed rate of speed it feed backs back into an octave.

I think it renders a shimmer fx useless. The classic eno shimmer was pitched delays with long delay times.
Old 2nd November 2013
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwvm View Post
Can you determine the rate of the shimmer?

Ie the blue sky and every other shimmer fx out there has a fixed rate of speed it feed backs back into an octave.

I think it renders a shimmer fx useless. The classic eno shimmer was pitched delays with long delay times.
You can use an expression pedal to control the mix or "amount".
Old 2nd November 2013
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Just make sure you don't end up like this:
Hey my board is nothing. You should see some of the craziness over at The Gear Page!
Old 3rd November 2013
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_allison View Post
You can use an expression pedal to control the mix or "amount".
Not the same thing. A rate when the octave feedbacks. Ie 1 oct and the time it takes before it gets to 2 oct, then 3 etc....
Old 4th November 2013
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwvm View Post
Not the same thing. A rate when the octave feedbacks. Ie 1 oct and the time it takes before it gets to 2 oct, then 3 etc....
Ohh, I see. Yeah you'd need multiple devices with their own rise time.

Old 4th November 2013
  #105
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwvm View Post
Not the same thing. A rate when the octave feedbacks. Ie 1 oct and the time it takes before it gets to 2 oct, then 3 etc....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_allison View Post
Ohh, I see. Yeah you'd need multiple devices with their own rise time.

If i understand mwvm correctly he is talking about inserting a pitch change effect in a delays feedback path.

Imagine you have a 200 ms delay and insert a pitch change of +2 semitones in the delay feedback path then the combined delay and pitch shift would hit one octave above the original signal after 1400 ms, and that would be the rate.
At least it would be a rate... And it will sound weird heh

Or even simpler, take a long decay of 2 seconds and set the pitch change in the feedback loop to +one octave.
After four seconds you get the first octave shift (because the first repeat does not go through the feedback loop), then the octave goes up every two seconds.

Now feed this pitched delay signal into a huge washy reverb and hear the shimmer.


On some multifx a feedback routing option is already programmed into the delay - otherwise yes, you would have to get rather creative with routing signals from several devices to get the desired effect, e.g. feed the output of a delay to a pitchshifter and then routing the pitched signal back to the delay input before sending it into a reverb...
Old 4th November 2013
  #106
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grumphh's Avatar
 

As for the Big Sky itself - i have listened to the videos and clips, and while i think that most of its reverbs sound great/impressive i am left wondering whether it is a one trick pony* because of the seeming lack of access to deeper parameter editing.

What i mean is, take the chorale verb which sounds amazing (i mean, i could see myself getting lost with just a guitar and that), but can you alter the base tone of that reverb enough to not make you go "oh, another Big Sky user..." ?


* Yeah well, 10 trick pony maybe, because you get all the different reverb types...
Old 4th November 2013
  #107
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Yoozer's Avatar
If you want deeper access, you need something programmable. Stompboxes are simply not intended for that kind of thing.

Perhaps you can join the Cult of Eventide as well?
Old 4th November 2013
  #108
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
If you want deeper access, you need something programmable. Stompboxes are simply not intended for that kind of thing.

Perhaps you can join the Cult of Eventide as well?
Just to be obstinate - it has midi in/out, so of course Strymon could provide deep programmability even within the pedal environment - then again, it would probably make more (business) sense to put extensive programmability into a rackmount/pro version.

And while i would probably love a big Eventide to play with, prices are prohibitive :(

...i'll just have to route my fx into each other on the mixer - and hey, that is fun too
Old 4th November 2013
  #109
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ben_allison's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
i am left wondering whether it is a one trick pony* because of the seeming lack of access to deeper parameter editing.
Def not. Lots of cool sounds.

How "deep" do you want to get? Each reverb machine has a bunch of parameters you can tweak. They're obviously different per machine, but for example, the room machine has:

- decay
- pre-delay
- low-end decay
- room size
- diffusion
- tone control
- modulation
- mix

That's pretty substantial for a stomp box verb. What other parameters would you like to tweak? Given the fact that there's a separate Reflections model, there really are a ton of sounds to be had, just when it comes to room sounds.
Old 4th November 2013
  #110
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_allison View Post
- decay
- pre-delay
- low-end decay
- room size
- diffusion
- tone control
- modulation
- mix

That's pretty substantial for a stomp box verb. What other parameters would you like to tweak?
That is my point: It is a stompbox, and stompboxes are usually one trick ponies. Or in this case a 12 trick pony. (And a rather nice pony, at that.)

The concept is a bit like in the Roland SH1000 and SH2000 synths - you get a bunch of presets and then a rudimentary set of parameters to alter those with, but not enough to make those full fledged mono synths.

With the Big Sky you can get at the most important parameters, but nothing else - meaning that the factory set character of the 12 reverbs will always be preserved. For some this is nice (foolproof ease of operation for drunk guitar players on stage), for others it is not so nice.


What i am saying is that although it comes in a stompbox format it is internally the same as any other digital effect and as such would be capable of all the parameter access one could wish for if a PC editor had been developed for it.

There are lots of parameters i might want to edit that would depend on the reverb used.

Imagine having a stompbox of that quality, full of truly personalized reverbs?


So please, don't get me wrong - i think it looks like a great box of sounds that i could easily enjoy, but well, it just seems limited because of the stompbox format.
Old 4th November 2013
  #111
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
Just to be obstinate - it has midi in/out, so of course Strymon could provide deep programmability even within the pedal environment - then again, it would probably make more (business) sense to put extensive programmability into a rackmount/pro version.
I think lots of people would welcome a rackmount/pro version (and I'd love to see one too). On the other hand, even given MIDI and an editor (which you then also have to support; the money won't get you anything, the big majority of people are not willing to take the time to do this. So you spent effort exposing and testing and coding everything and 9 out of 10 users won't do anything with it.

Quote:
And while i would probably love a big Eventide to play with, prices are prohibitive :(
Eclipses are pretty affordable. Sure - it's a lot compared to a Midiverb or cheap Lex or TC, but you get a lot back, too.
Old 4th November 2013
  #112
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ben_allison's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
What i am saying is that although it comes in a stompbox format it is internally the same as any other digital effect and as such would be capable of all the parameter access one could wish for if a PC editor had been developed for it.
But you're just speaking hypothetically, and not describing what you think is actually missing parameter-wise or how it will specifically limit you, based on the sounds it makes.

Also, a synth is different than a verb. With a synth, there are all sorts of parameters that can be changed, not to mention entirely different ways of doing synthesis. It's orders of magnitude more complex and variable, so I can see how presets with a few tweakable parameters might be annoying.

But many verbs have the same fundamental parameters that you can tweak, and they all have "their own sound," and that's either a sound you dig or it's not.

I mean take a solid plugin verb like Valhalla vintage Verb. It has slightly more control, but in large part, it offers about the same kind of depth of editing as the Big Sky... would you find that just as limiting?
Old 4th November 2013
  #113
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
I think lots of people would welcome a rackmount/pro version (and I'd love to see one too). On the other hand, even given MIDI and an editor (which you then also have to support; the money won't get you anything, the big majority of people are not willing to take the time to do this. So you spent effort exposing and testing and coding everything and 9 out of 10 users won't do anything with it.


Eclipses are pretty affordable. Sure - it's a lot compared to a Midiverb or cheap Lex or TC, but you get a lot back, too.
2000€ is "pretty affordable" to you? Well, it ain't to me... :(

As for a midi editor, i simply can't imagine that that is so hard to program nor keep up - and i am sure you could get some sort of cult following for these boxes if the advanced users who are willing to take the time to program them put their homebrew reverbs on the net.
Old 4th November 2013
  #114
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_allison View Post
But you're just speaking hypothetically, and not describing what you think is actually missing parameter-wise or how it will specifically limit you, based on the sounds it makes.
That is because there are to many to list. Even on the cheapish reverbs i have, 12 -16 parameters are normal (some have more, some less) and when you combine reverbs with pitch shifters and delay (as you have to when doing "shimmer", at least on ordinary multi-fx) the number of parameters goes up...

i'll give you one example of a parameter i like on my lowly alesis wedge - namely the possibility to filter the high frequencies before they are fed to the reverb, which in turn influences the high damping factor that (should you wish to) can be set to less, because there are less high frequencies to be processed and so on...
The devil is in the details - sometimes at least.
Old 4th November 2013
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
Just to be obstinate - it has midi in/out, so of course Strymon could provide deep programmability even within the pedal environment
The TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb allows some editing of underlying parameters (as do other pedals in that series). There's one slot available to download (over USB) a custom "TonePrint". A while ago they made the TonePrint Editor available, so you can make your own TonePrint. It's not on-the-fly editing (as far as I know), but it's something.
Old 4th November 2013
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimwolf View Post
The TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb allows some editing of underlying parameters (as do other pedals in that series). There's one slot available to download (over USB) a custom "TonePrint". A while ago they made the TonePrint Editor available, so you can make your own TonePrint. It's not on-the-fly editing (as far as I know), but it's something.
That concept is what i was talking/dreaming about

...(only with more user memory )
Old 4th November 2013
  #117
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
2000€ is "pretty affordable" to you? Well, it ain't to me... :(
1200 secondhand, should be pretty doable, really. Unless you insist on new. Affordable compared to an H8000, of course .

Quote:
As for a midi editor, i simply can't imagine that that is so hard to program nor keep up
They're apparently really hard to get right.

The road is littered with abandoned 32-bits Windows XP-only editors. Unisyn's dead. JSynthlib's not going anywhere. Ctrlr is promising and still alive, but then you read what you have to do to get something basic working - | Ctrlr - Control your MIDI life (MIDI editor for all your hardware)
Old 4th November 2013
  #118
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
1200 secondhand, should be pretty doable, really. Unless you insist on new. Affordable compared to an H8000, of course .
Not everyone has a job ... Not whining btw, just saying that even 1200€ for one fx box is a bit much even in a welfare state.

As for programming, you do probably know something approaching infinity more about it than i do.


...but making an editor still cant be that hard???




.
Old 4th November 2013
  #119
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_allison View Post
I mean take a solid plugin verb like Valhalla vintage Verb. It has slightly more control, but in large part, it offers about the same kind of depth of editing as the Big Sky... would you find that just as limiting?
VintageVerb has 16 parameters (the Mode parameter can be viewed as the algorithm switch in Big Sky). ValhallaShimmer has 12 parameters, including the Mode parameter. It looks like the Big Sky modes have from 9 to 12 editable parameters.

A few older reverbs for comparison:

- AMS RMX-16: 4 parameters + mode select
- Lexicon 224: 9 parameters + mode select
- EMT-250: 4 parameters + mode select
- Quantec QRS: 10 parameters + 2 additional modes (Freeze, Enhance)
Old 4th November 2013
  #120
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
Not everyone has a job ... Not whining btw, just saying that even 1200€ for one fx box is a bit much even in a welfare state.
I slaved away to get an authentic Minimoog from '73 that costs more than my car, but I wouldn't trade it away for a dozen smaller monosynths. With guitars, there are similar scenarios where you get more joy out of a custom-built axe that costs as much as 6 lesser ones - but the joy's worth it.

Quote:
As for programming, you do probably know something approaching infinity more about it than i do.
Well - using aforementioned Ctrlr as a basis, you could make a cheap editor (you could even do it yourself if you had the spec). But - then you're dependent on the whims of open source and someone else.

This kind of thing can work really well when you have a business behind it - e.g. what Red Hat is doing with Linux but editors are such niche products that it's just easier to let an intern slap together something in the summer holidays. It compiles! Ship it! And then a year or two later OS X or Windows changes something and the summer app no longer works, and the intern's gone, and nobody has the time or desire to fix anything about it anymore because they're busy with another product.

So that's why it's hard
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