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Warming - "Analoging" itb sound with...what?
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #121
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crufty's Avatar
my ramsa (which is too big for my setup right now) totally changed all my sounds

/counterpoint
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #122
Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
my ramsa (which is too big for my setup right now) totally changed all my sounds

/counterpoint
yes, but for the better? heh
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #123
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crufty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
yes, but for the better? heh
haha

actually, yes

http://archive.org/download/Crufty-E...assStation.mp3
Old 28th September 2013
  #124
Thanks kcearl, that was some of the best reading I've done on a while. The denial that takes place whenever we make a bad purchase or it just doesn't meet the expectations we anticipate, is astounding. "........for the price of a Kia". His self-deprecating tone and the psychological healing that took place when he was writing that was awesome.

Look, HW is better than SW, but for how long? This has been a great thread. Lots of great tips. Has not lead to any purchases for me, but has got me thinking and investigating. Right now, I know that I will get really good return on my investment if I buy any HW and decide it isn't for me, but again for how long? Would you say more people who are ITB like me are going OTB, or are more OTB, going ITB? Probably the latter and it is because the SW is gaining.

Crufty nailed it a while back. The next wave should be HW controlled by SW. It's already happening with synthesizers to a great extent and the SSL Sigma looks like a lead in to mixing desks in a box. Now, is that just DSP controlled software, or is there actually SSL HW inside? I know some people like the "knob on my hand" but for me who joined the music world late in life, I'm perfectly comfortable clicking and dragging a knob on my screen.

I guess the moral of the story is this, and I often use this explanation because high-end stereo equipment is something I knew well before deciding I wanted to make music, not just listen to it. The difference in quality of a product that is purchased at Target and is entry level, lets say a multimedia tuner/amplifier for $200, and the entry level at your local audiophile store for say, $2000 is IMMENSE! Now, the difference between our audiophile entry level and "the best in the world" for $20K, is there, evident to some but not all, and the price you pay for it, not worth it for most.

With quality on the y-axis, and price on the x-axis, there is a logarithmic curve, negative I believe, or the natural log or Ln in the math world. As you make your way down the x-axis further and further, the slope becomes progressively smaller and smaller.
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #125
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e-are's Avatar
A few analog pieces...Hybrid!!

IMO....everything doesn't need that "analog sound", just the major tracks. I run mono drums and instruments (I kind of don't like stereo synths most of the time), thru outboard gear. Kiks and snares/ claps get a dbx160 driven pretty hard, most of the time, and a lil compression. I love what the dbx does to them. Definitely, imo, sounds very very analog. Bass goes thru a fat tube compressor, Peavey vcL2. The kik and bass alone after inserting the outboard seem to work so much better together and the low end sounds much better than I can do without the outboard. Opposite of that, I don't use my Drawmer 1968 on the 2 bus anymore. I love what the Duende bus comp does so I can use the drawmer on individual tracks, if needed. have 8 channels of good preamps, 16 mono compressors and Joemeek Twin Q which has preamps and comps but I use that for sounds I want kind of trashy, in a good way. I now, after a few years, really appreciate summing thru a mixer, soundcraft ghost. The collection of these things makes things sound analog. The "warming", I believe, is dulling the sound a lil and maybe focusing more on the lower mids. I see analog and warm as 2 different things. I can't describe analog, I know it when I hear it. It's a certain sound that sounds fat, punchy, and the low end kind of melts together.I can't get it totally with plugs.
My 0.02
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #126
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Crufty nailed it a while back. The next wave should be HW controlled by SW. It's already happening with synthesizers to a great extent and the SSL Sigma looks like a lead in to mixing desks in a box. Now, is that just DSP controlled software, or is there actually SSL HW inside? I know some people like the "knob on my hand" but for me who joined the music world late in life, I'm perfectly comfortable clicking and dragging a knob on my screen.
What?? Did you ever hear of midi control?
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee View Post
What?? Did you ever hear of midi control?
Yes.......I have.

I don't want to control a compressor or an EQ with MIDI.

I'm talking about a black box of sorts that contains an entire line of hardware inside. An SSL mixing desk, SSL channel (compressor, EQ, gate/expander), and an SSL Buss Compressor all in one that is controlled by software. Connected via USB/firewire, balanced out of my AI, into the black box, routing would take place in the black box via SW, and back into my AI. Not DSP, but actual HW. These exist:

Solid State Logic | Music | X-Patch
Solid State Logic | Music | Sigma

EDIT: you're right, it appears parts of the Sigma are MIDI contorlled.....

But what if you could just stack up your favorite (not necessarily SSL) HW EQs, compressors, delay/reverb units and just control everything ITB?

It's the convenience of ITB with actual OTB HW. No more emulations or DSP satellites.

I'm just sayin.
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #128
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are View Post
dbx160
Peavey vcL2
Drawmer 1968
Duende bus comp
8 channels of good preamps
16 mono compressors
Joemeek Twin Q
soundcraft ghost
That's quite a list. It's also a lot more than just a cheaper older budget mixer that's been suggested in that other ITB/OTB thread to warm things up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
It's the convenience of ITB with actual OTB HW. No more emulations or DSP satellites.
And then the company decides it's no longer viable to develop drivers for the black box and you're stuck with an inaccessible bunch of parts that'll only run on a 20-year old computer. That's the entire problem with all of this crap; they're so proud and protective of their custom communication protocol that it's never going to be given away for free, or their competitors implement in a completely half-assed way so in the end everyone relies on a 30-year old slow-ass standard to do everything.

This happened before, and it'll happen again.

I don't know about you, but I either want my stuff to be cheap and easily replaceable by equivalents/ephemeral or expensive and very long lasting.
Old 28th September 2013 | Show parent
  #129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
That's quite a list. It's also a lot more than just a cheaper older budget mixer that's been suggested in that other ITB/OTB thread to warm things up.



And then the company decides it's no longer viable to develop drivers for the black box and you're stuck with an inaccessible bunch of parts that'll only run on a 20-year old computer. That's the entire problem with all of this crap; they're so proud and protective of their custom communication protocol that it's never going to be given away for free, or their competitors implement in a completely half-assed way so in the end everyone relies on a 30-year old slow-ass standard to do everything.

This happened before, and it'll happen again.

I don't know about you, but I either want my stuff to be cheap and easily replaceable by equivalents/ephemeral or expensive and very long lasting.
Point taken: then X-Rack it is!
Old 28th September 2013
  #130
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Waldorf tried this with the AFB16. Literal doorstop. The idea is attractive, it's just that human nature ruins things.

A fully standardized modular format for desks would be an idea. Think API 500 only bigger. You can cram quite a bit in a lunchbox if you are willing to forego all-analog control...
Old 29th September 2013 | Show parent
  #131
Lives for gear
 
kacperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are View Post
IMO....everything doesn't need that "analog sound", just the major tracks. I run mono drums and instruments (I kind of don't like stereo synths most of the time), thru outboard gear. Kiks and snares/ claps get a dbx160 driven pretty hard, most of the time, and a lil compression. I love what the dbx does to them. Definitely, imo, sounds very very analog. Bass goes thru a fat tube compressor, Peavey vcL2. The kik and bass alone after inserting the outboard seem to work so much better together and the low end sounds much better than I can do without the outboard. Opposite of that, I don't use my Drawmer 1968 on the 2 bus anymore. I love what the Duende bus comp does so I can use the drawmer on individual tracks, if needed. have 8 channels of good preamps, 16 mono compressors and Joemeek Twin Q which has preamps and comps but I use that for sounds I want kind of trashy, in a good way. I now, after a few years, really appreciate summing thru a mixer, soundcraft ghost. The collection of these things makes things sound analog. The "warming", I believe, is dulling the sound a lil and maybe focusing more on the lower mids. I see analog and warm as 2 different things. I can't describe analog, I know it when I hear it. It's a certain sound that sounds fat, punchy, and the low end kind of melts together.I can't get it totally with plugs.
My 0.02
thanks mate for professional response !
Old 29th September 2013 | Show parent
  #132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Venkman View Post
Could you elaborate a bit on using the RedEye please? I have a few pedals that I like to use and plan to build up my collection and have them all available to use via a patch bay.
Sure... The RedEye allows me to present the correct impedance and level to my pedals....I am a pianist/keyboardist, so my first pedal was an old Ibanez SC10 that I bolted onto my Moog.... Anything over 30% started overdriving the pedal, and sometimes, that's actually really cool, but when I picked up a few more pedals ( Ibanez AD9, EH stereo memory man, Eventide ModFactor, etc) I started having trouble. The RedEye allows me to not only hear what I'm going to record, and drive the pedals as hard(or not) as I want, but like any good DI, you choose your flavor of preamp as well! Simply send the signal from my DAW line-level to the redeye, inst. out to my pedals, pedals back to the RedEye and output to whatever preamp I choose.

The IBP is at least as important in my workflow, as I will often run distortion/fuzz/compression pedals in parallel, and playing with the phase can do everything from boosting the lower-mids up to making the track sound like its coming from outside the speakers or behind you! These two tools are pretty much necessary if you're looking to use pedals in a DAW setup.
Did this help with your question? Feel free to PM me with any further questions!
Old 13th October 2013 | Show parent
  #133
Gear Head
 
Dr Venkman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane View Post
Sure... The RedEye allows me to present the correct impedance and level to my pedals....I am a pianist/keyboardist, so my first pedal was an old Ibanez SC10 that I bolted onto my Moog.... Anything over 30% started overdriving the pedal, and sometimes, that's actually really cool, but when I picked up a few more pedals ( Ibanez AD9, EH stereo memory man, Eventide ModFactor, etc) I started having trouble. The RedEye allows me to not only hear what I'm going to record, and drive the pedals as hard(or not) as I want, but like any good DI, you choose your flavor of preamp as well! Simply send the signal from my DAW line-level to the redeye, inst. out to my pedals, pedals back to the RedEye and output to whatever preamp I choose.

The IBP is at least as important in my workflow, as I will often run distortion/fuzz/compression pedals in parallel, and playing with the phase can do everything from boosting the lower-mids up to making the track sound like its coming from outside the speakers or behind you! These two tools are pretty much necessary if you're looking to use pedals in a DAW setup.
Did this help with your question? Feel free to PM me with any further questions!
Hello, yes thank you it was very helpful. I was looking into getting an IBP a while back for general multitrack mixing use (recommended by Mike Senior in his book Mixing Secrets For The Small Studio) so there's another reason to get one! I may well PM you in the future, thanks for the advice.
Old 4th November 2013
  #134
Gear Nut
 

I'm looking to get a piece of analogue to add a little something to my mixes/bass'/synths through, still not entirely sure what yet but my budget is about £1250.

On the list so far is a TL Audio Fat Track, 2x Warm Audio TB12's, UA twinfinity.

I'm not really sure what else, gonna just keep researching.
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #135
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by impostor View Post
I'm looking to get a piece of analogue to add a little something to my mixes/bass'/synths through, still not entirely sure what yet but my budget is about £1250.

On the list so far is a TL Audio Fat Track, 2x Warm Audio TB12's, UA twinfinity.

I'm not really sure what else, gonna just keep researching.
I was just asking myself why nobody mentioned the tla fat track, look no further if you're on a budget or not. Tubes, great eq, summing, drive input, all my mixes go throuh mine. Also nebula, get these 2 and you're good and should have £500 or more left for a used comp, or pre, maybe even an analog synth with a filter you can record through? Moog lil phatty goes for 500 used, great filter on that.
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #136
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyLAvenir View Post
I was just asking myself why nobody mentioned the tla fat track, look no further if you're on a budget or not. Tubes, great eq, summing, drive input, all my mixes go throuh mine. Also nebula, get these 2 and you're good and should have £500 or more left for a used comp, or pre, maybe even an analog synth with a filter you can record through? Moog lil phatty goes for 500 used, great filter on that.
I already have a slim phatty already, my master plan is slowly coming together, I'm just taking my time with the last few bits now, got my lexicon, drawmer 241, sherman filterbank and tetra, just need a patchbay and rack to get it all plumbed in.

I do fancy a drum machine too, but I'm quite happy doing my drums the way I do them at the moment so that can be saved for a later date.

The next part is warmth factor; just something that adds tonality, so yeah fat track, some type of valve/tube unit, suggestions are welcome.
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impostor View Post
I already have a slim phatty already, my master plan is slowly coming together, I'm just taking my time with the last few bits now, got my lexicon, drawmer 241, sherman filterbank and tetra, just need a patchbay and rack to get it all plumbed in.

I do fancy a drum machine too, but I'm quite happy doing my drums the way I do them at the moment so that can be saved for a later date.

The next part is warmth factor; just something that adds tonality, so yeah fat track, some type of valve/tube unit, suggestions are welcome.
You could look for a used one of these or the M3 model, better eq options on all channels than the newer version, but it would be over your budget a tiny bit
TL Audio M1 Tubetracker

Newer model TL Audio M1-F - Tubetracker 8 or 12 Input Mixer
should give you all you 're looking for but again over your budget and rare to come across now.

Fat track only has one stereo eq so maybe up your budget a little so whatever you get can act as the warmth device as well as a pacthbay/mixer. otherwise you;ll end up having to unplug things everytime you want the eq. That's what I have to do, bit much sometimes, if i had more outputs I'd get the M1 or M3 myself, nothing else valve/tube based at the price with as many features on all channels. Be careful though, I'm seeing all these tla mixers going for more than they were to buy brand spanking new, good luck fella
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #138
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The Listener's Avatar
Just a good source can do wonders most of the time - and EQing in all the right places... with a nice EQ - like DMG Equilibrium for example...

Then this little thing: FabFilter Saturn - Saturation and Distortion Plug-In VST VST3 AU AAX RTAS AudioSuite (you REALLY WANT this one...)

And Nebula 3 pro - I use AlexB white console MIX bus emulation mostly and a few other oddities... probably don't use it nearly as much as I could...

And UAD-2 - the new 1176, LA-2A, Pultec, Massive Passive, Ampex tape... great stuff... (actually I don't care about their EQs now that I checked out Equilibrium... I still use Ampex quite a lot and 1176 are essential to me)

Those are my choices... there are some others, too...
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #139
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyLAvenir View Post
You could look for a used one of these or the M3 model, better eq options on all channels than the newer version, but it would be over your budget a tiny bit
TL Audio M1 Tubetracker

Newer model TL Audio M1-F - Tubetracker 8 or 12 Input Mixer
should give you all you 're looking for but again over your budget and rare to come across now.

Fat track only has one stereo eq so maybe up your budget a little so whatever you get can act as the warmth device as well as That's what I have to do, bit much sometimes, if i had more outputs I'd get the M1 or M3 myself, nothing else valve/tube based at the price with as many features on all channels. Be careful though, I'm seeing all these tla mixers going for more than they were to buy brand spanking new, good luck fella

Yeah those 8 track one's are way out of my budget, 1250 just about all I'll be able to afford, the Fat Tracks look amazing, but it's just as hard to get hold of one, guess I'll just keep my eyes peeled on here and various other places.

Other option is a decent pre or something for the mix bus but I don't know really, guess I better just research stuff and take my time to decide.

The UAD stuff does look really good though, it's quite tempting, will look in to it more, but I did want something more tactile.
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impostor View Post
Yeah those 8 track one's are way out of my budget, 1250 just about all I'll be able to afford, the Fat Tracks look amazing, but it's just as hard to get hold of one, guess I'll just keep my eyes peeled on here and various other places.

Other option is a decent pre or something for the mix bus but I don't know really, guess I better just research stuff and take my time to decide.

The UAD stuff does look really good though, it's quite tempting, will look in to it more, but I did want something more tactile.
Saw one in sos readers ads the other day, probably gone by now but you never know?
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #141
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyLAvenir View Post
Saw one in sos readers ads the other day, probably gone by now but you never know?
Yeh, not gonna have the money till like the 10th of December now, so I think I'll just start looking around then, my timing sucks so hard!
Old 4th November 2013 | Show parent
  #142
Lives for gear
 

Anyone have any experience with this?

https://www.kmraudio.com/ridge-farm-...FVMRtAodOkIAnA

balanced XLR and just over £750 gbp?
Old 7th November 2013
  #143
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
Here are some solutions:
Analogue summing : all the options (the BIG thread)

Still curious about the TL Audio Fat Track btw... is it still any good?
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