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moving beatmapped regions in logic
Old 17th May 2012
  #1
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moving beatmapped regions in logic

Hi

I'm working with beatmapping in logic 9 for the first time, i've got several 4 bar sections of some live drums that i want to use as the building blocks for my track, the playing pushes and pulls a fair bit so i want to program to this. I've beat mapped each of the sections i want to use but i need to be able to move them around as i bulid my drum arrangement and keep the corresponding beat map for each block in place. I hope that makes sense!?

anyhow, i'm totally stumped as to how to move this stuff around my arrangement. I've done alot of searches here and on youtube, found loads of good stuff on how to beatmap but nothing on moving the damn stuff around. the only thing i found told me to just shift-select the nodes and the audio and move them together- which would seem like the obvious thing to do, but every time i try the audio moves and the nodes de-select themselves and stay where they were.

I've tried moving the nodes separately to the audio but its impossibly fiddly. Sure i'm missing something blindingly obvious, but i'm pretty much stumped.... any help would be appreciated

thanks
Old 17th May 2012
  #2
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Try locking the region then copying.
Other than that you can export it then drag it back in and copy it.
Old 17th May 2012
  #3
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Hi Tnevz, thanks for that...

You mean lock to smpte? Tried this but no joy- as i dragged the clips it seemed to re-analyse them for transients then nothing happened. Also, is it possible to export audio with a tempo map in the file? I'm dealing with several channels of drum mics, beat mapping to the kick.

just realised i probably should have posted this in the newbie forum... apologies!
Old 18th May 2012
  #4
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anybody?........
Old 18th May 2012
  #5
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trautman View Post
i'm totally stumped as to how to move this stuff around my arrangement.
What happens when you try?
How do you try?
Can you provide more details? (Does the target area contain tempo changes, has the material been - or will it become - quantized? etc)
Old 18th May 2012
  #6
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Hi Native audio

The target area is several channels of audio, the kick of which has been beatmapped and now there are corresponding tempo changes in the global tempo track above- nodes(?)

when i try and shift select the audio and the nodes together and move them at the same time the nodes de-select as I drag the material and only the audio moves, leaving the nodes where they were.

nothing has been quantized, i have beatmapped tempo changes to the kick drum, it is all audio, there is no midi.

hope this helps... thanks
Old 18th May 2012
  #7
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

To keep it simple, I'll explain the following using an example with one region only.

I assume you have done this on a region which is not 'elastic', meaning that Flex Time isn't activated for that track. So... this is what happens when you beat map an audio region: Logic insert tempo changes in the global tempo list in the same area is the region reside. That's why you, by dragging the beat mapping lines, will get a result where the heard/musical beats will match the grid. The region hasn't changed; the tempo has changed - and in that area only. When you move the region to a new area, without the same tempo events (forget about the Beat Mapping nodes for now), the music won't match the grid anymore.

AFAIK you can't copy/paste the Beat Mapping nodes - and it wouldn't make sense either. They only serve as means to let you tell Logic which areas in the region you want to align with a defined target position in that particular time line.

You have at least these three ways to deal with this:

A) After Beat Mapping, enable Flex for that region. Now, when you copy the region to a new location, it will match the grid of that area, due to Flex's "background intelligence".
B) Instead, copy both the non-flexed region and the tempo changes (which are different from the Beat Mapping nodes, right?) to a new location.
C) Copy the non-flexed region to the new location, and perform a new Beat Mapping process in that area.

B and C will also result in a match between the bar lines and the played material.

I'll post a fourth option soon...




---





Here comes the Possibly Too Much Info section: :-)

I don't know how familiar you are with Flex, but in case you don't know it so well yet, remember that in spite of the common word 'beat', it is very different from Beat Detective. The equivalent to Beat Detective in Logic is a Flex algorithm called Slicing, except for the kind of situation you mention - where you need to copy the material you have edited to a new location. In Flex/Slicing, all the slicing still actually happens i the background in spite of the region still behaves and looks like on region, in the sense that you only need to grab one region in order to move all the slices within it.
Old 18th May 2012
  #8
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

D) After having selected your region in the original, already-beat-mapped area, go to Options>Tempo>Export Tempo Information To Audio File.

Now, whenever you move that region you'll also move a copy of the tempo nodes, because they now also reside inside the region itself. And again, remember that the tempo nodes are the important part here in this situation, not the Beat Mapping nodes.

This means that after having copied your material to a new location, you can go to Options>Tempo>Import Tempo Information from Audio File, and Voila! your nodes will now be copied into the correct place in the tempo list/global tempo track for that area.
Old 18th May 2012
  #9
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thanks man, i thinks its gonna have to be C. I was hoping that there would be some way of locking particular tempo changes to a particular piece of audio, but i guess i can see why that wouldn't make sense...

cheers for your help
Old 18th May 2012
  #10
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woah! just read D, that's the thing right there. thanks alot man...
Old 18th May 2012
  #11
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Yes, D is the most logical solution, because one uses the actual region as a 'transport vehicle' for the tempo information generated by your neat mapping.

Remember that although the user interface in logic is he same for beat mapping MIDI and audio are two entirely different beats, because MIDI and audio are very different from each other. But I agree - woah! to Apple who implemented these options.

Of course D will also result in a match between the grid and the music.
Old 14th September 2012
  #12
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muggler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
D) After having selected your region in the original, already-beat-mapped area, go to Options>Tempo>Export Tempo Information To Audio File.

Now, whenever you move that region you'll also move a copy of the tempo nodes, because they now also reside inside the region itself. And again, remember that the tempo nodes are the important part here in this situation, not the Beat Mapping nodes.

This means that after having copied your material to a new location, you can go to Options>Tempo>Import Tempo Information from Audio File, and Voila! your nodes will now be copied into the correct place in the tempo list/global tempo track for that area.
...and four months later, a bump just to say thanks! I don't usually work with live drums. Method D is perfect!
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