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Can an Elektron Machinedrum UW do anything a Maschine can't? Other Controllers
Old 12th May 2012
  #1
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Can an Elektron Machinedrum UW do anything a Maschine can't?

Like the tittle says.
Old 12th May 2012
  #2
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It can work without a laptop for starters.
Old 12th May 2012
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BitCulprit View Post
It can work without a laptop for starters.
yes, ok 1 nil to machinedrum. is that all? of course the tone might be different, but could i achieve the same results with Maschine?
Old 12th May 2012
  #4
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weard question.. you compare a percusion synthesizer with running light sequencer with a pad realtime sequencer equiped sampling drummachine that is not even hardware..

they have not much in common really.. machien with a reaktor instance on each pad could come close when you program reaktor acordingly.. but than teh sequuncer s still a total differnt thing..not comparable
Old 12th May 2012
  #5
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If you want to know which is more flexible and sounds better its the maschine hands down. Machinedrum cannot approach what the maschine can do at any level, anyone who says different is an elektron nuthugger.
Old 12th May 2012
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
If you want to know which is more flexible and sounds better its the maschine hands down. Machinedrum cannot approach what the maschine can do at any level, anyone who says different is an elektron nuthugger.
or so says the maschine uberfanboy. just wait to NI abandons it like they did Kore.

@OP. But in all seriousness. I have tried Maschine and I own a Machinedrum. They are two totally different experiences. Apples and oranges. Watch some demo vids to get a better idea. Only you can decide which one is better suited to your needs, workflow etc. The Machinedrum sounds great. Quick and easy to get some tasty beats rolling if you like jamming along with your synths. And no computer required ... if you like that sort of thing.
Old 12th May 2012
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohack View Post
The Machinedrum sounds great.
It really doesnt. It sounds ok, but need a lot of processing to sound good.

I owned both for a good while and got rid of my MD after I got my tempest I couldn't really justify the MD since it was essentially useless to me, there are NO sounds it can make that I cant get easier elsewhere.
Old 12th May 2012
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
If you want to know which is more flexible and sounds better its the maschine hands down. Machinedrum cannot approach what the maschine can do at any level, anyone who says different is an elektron nuthugger.
stupid thing to say about a thing where the 8 rotarys are just ther for decorative aproaches and the live performalibility is a sad joke against the machine drum... ANdf i am not a machine drum fanboy. i sold mine too.. But that will happen with NI´s machine too.. its to stiff in many regards,,

But for the low price machine is very good.. and maybe one day the software gets developed a bit further.. So from the handling and instant access +points for the machine drum..

for lots of plug in sound possebilitys and low price NI machine..

on stage? hard to say.. the machinedrum never crashes.. but machine does a light show for you
Old 12th May 2012
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohack View Post
or so says the maschine uberfanboy. just wait to NI abandons it like they did Kore.

@OP. But in all seriousness. I have tried Maschine and I own a Machinedrum. They are two totally different experiences. Apples and oranges. Watch some demo vids to get a better idea. Only you can decide which one is better suited to your needs, workflow etc. The Machinedrum sounds great. Quick and easy to get some tasty beats rolling if you like jamming along with your synths. And no computer required ... if you like that sort of thing.
sorry I should have been clearer in my post. I saw a machinedrum on yahoo auction rather cheap and so I was thinking about what it can do compared to my current maschine set up. I looked at a few videos (the official one) and well the features didn't seem all that amazing. "you can sample a bit in real time and then juggle the beat" was the jist of the video. A KP3 can do that as can maschine. I wasn't impressed. Thats not to say its not a good drum machine but the video certainly didn't sell it. (the octatrack commercial was much more interesting hehe).
Old 12th May 2012
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
It really doesnt. It sounds ok, but need a lot of processing to sound good.

I owned both for a good while and got rid of my MD after I got my tempest I couldn't really justify the MD since it was essentially useless to me, there are NO sounds it can make that I cant get easier elsewhere.
thats true..the machine drum benefits form a vintage pre..but so does machine... its no fair comparison because machine dont generates sounds.. its a sampling drummachine ..but one that can include synth plugs.. ..and eats a lot of cpu power in the laptop than.. so you have to calculate a part of the laptop price with it.. without laptop machine is just a dust collector..and without soundcard you wont be able to hear a thing..

But its not only about the sounds..its also about the control of the sounds..

With the MD you can dial all playing sounds short and piched up and on a single button press return to the safed state..

try that with machine.... no way.. The rotary encoders dont do much good on stage anyway.. really weard.. Its like somebody has decided that the machine gets 8 rotarys and 2 displays for the looks.. But the software developers failed to give them good use..

I really hope they wake up and change that at one point.. theoretical machine has more controls and could do more for you on stage.. but just the physical presence of the controls means nothing when ther is no handling concept behind them..

But not all of the handling of machine is bad.. its really mostly the encoders itself that are handled like being forgotten.. the rest is pretty straight forward.. good mute and pattern/scene select modes.. just without function on the encoders than...
Just teh note repeat is a sad joke against the akai functionality that got ripped there.. and also very funny to see the waste of 2 displays and the rotarys in that mode.. a bit ****** style.

Anyway.. maybe the new akais become an interesting alternative to machine.. 16 knobs for 16 pads looks promissing..and akai is not the company that spends expensive encoders for decorative reasons.
Old 12th May 2012
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
stupid thing to say about a thing where the 8 rotarys are just ther for decorative aproaches and the live performalibility is a sad joke against the machine drum...
I think you are confused and or perhaps have never actually use a maschine at all if you thin the 8 knobs are "ther for decorative aproaches" seriously...LOL. Not with you but at you. And a again LOL.
Old 12th May 2012
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
I think you are confused and or perhaps have never actually use a maschine at all if you thin the 8 knobs are "ther for decorative aproaches" seriously...LOL. Not with you but at you. And a again LOL.
it just stands next to me... in all stage relevant operation modes like beeing in the mute page or being in the scene or pattern select page the 8 encoders are out of function..

and even when you jump back to pages where they are function there is no real concept behind how to navigate between the pages in regards to the pad/tracks and groups.. ther are no things like doing the length of all sounds in a group on a single knob... or an auto select that gives you the control page of one pad also on all others when you desire that.. so a lot of back and forth naviagating that feels like a software product but not a hardware drummachine it trys to simulate...

The macro page could be a base for a better handling in such regards, but its rather underdeveloped.. no multiple assignments aso like you would expect from a thing that is called macro page..

On the beat repeat page they use all controls to do virtually nothing.. things where akai would spend a single encoder for.. but the beat repeat page could be just the one to have global controls for all pads in a group.. Aso aso ...

But dont missunderstand me.. its not a bad product.. just underdeveloped in regards of stage use.. Its easy to get that the machine drum is some years longer on the market...
Old 12th May 2012
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
weard question.. you compare a percusion synthezoser with running light sequencer with a pad realtime sequencer equiped sampling drummachine that is not even hardware..

they have not much in common really.. machien with a reaktor instance on each pad could come close when you program reaktor acordingly.. but than teh sequuncer s still a total differnt thing..not comparable
Maschine does step sequencing as well, similar to the Roland R-8. and you wouldn't exactly need a Reaktor instance on each pad to replicate the sound/functionality of the MD.

they're both quite different though in a lot of ways, hard to say which is better.

(also, lol at the spellcheck when quoting posts by audioconsult.)
Old 12th May 2012
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
Maschine does step sequencing as well, similar to the Roland R-8. and you wouldn't exactly need a Reaktor instance on each pad to replicate the sound/functionality of the MD.

they're both quite different though in a lot of ways, hard to say which is better.

(also, lol at the spellcheck when quoting posts by audioconsult.)
yeah i guess the comparison wasn't really fair. from the promotion video it seems like its functionality was pretty much the same (minus the laptop and ability to run as VST).
Old 12th May 2012
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedavine View Post
yeah i guess the comparison wasn't really fair. from the promotion video it seems like its functionality was pretty much the same (minus the laptop and ability to run as VST).
the machine drum is a quite strange machine and its true that its limited to the internal sound engines.. but theese can do quite a lot.. and you have a very intersting control and parameter lock step seqiuemcing going on on them that makes the MD quite exclusive and standing for it self.. defently has more character than NI´s machine.. but a bit weard aswell.. You either love it or hate it..or booth..
Always loved it in the studio.. but hated it on stage.. But it definetly can do things NI machine cant.. so when you can get it cheap its worth a try,, defently good enough for some tracks and a classic already you always can sell again...

didnt had machine on stage yet.. but i am not sure if i will give it the opportunity.. i think i rather do it with the nordmodular and a 808/303 combo next time..


Machine is rather a remote control for a daw or even better stand alone to avoid looking on the screen all the time.. for peoplöe that dont know anything else than ITB working quite a relive .. For people that come from hardware drummachines a bit funny.. you see thats rather the brain**** of some programmers than a real drummachine.. But some nice ideas inside like the step sequncer that moves from the lower row to the upper row ..what is a much more natural aproach to adress 16 steps on a square by four..

so the first events are closer to you than the late ones.. thats good..

And shows the potential of the thing to become better over time..

Its probably really like that they had the encoders first.. and now they are giving them functions..

Quite oposite to a hardware world ..where the biz department cuts down the knobs and forces the developers to give each one that remains a hell of proper use otherwise it get cut aswell..

Machine in its actual form could be easily realized with one display and 4 rotarys.. or just one rotary.. wouldnt make much difference,..
Old 12th May 2012
  #16
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Maschine can do 'parameter locks' as well, though i can't recall if it can slide between values on certain steps like the MD.
Old 12th May 2012
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
Maschine can do 'parameter locks' as well, though i can't recall if it can slide between values on certain steps like the MD.
and try to edit them without consulting the computer..good luck... and ther are no slides in NI machine.. just realtime knob record.. thats good too of cause.. just without global parameters that adress all pads or all groups ...??

thats really a strong point in the MD that you can do global parameter sequencing.. and parameter 2 is not necessarily the same in all soundengine machines.. that can lead to quite impressive results on one knob when you know what you are doing..

to do that in machine you really would need a reaktor instance for all pads and an external controler because again.. the internal rotarys wouldnt be of much use for such a project because you cant use them to send a midi command to all the plug ins or external sources..

thats again possible with the md.. you can sequence controlers to external instruments and have global controls that access all tracks,,,

They are really not comparable.. NI could learn quite a bit from elektron.. when this would happen than machine might easily win.. But as it is now the week points of machine are the strong points of the MD...
Old 12th May 2012
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
... and parameter lock step seqiuemcing going on on them that makes the MD quite exclusive and standing for it self...
you were saying?

oh you're right though, Maschine doesn't do any sort of "seqiuemcing", whatever that is.

good points on the CTRL ALL machines, etc... again, they're so different that it's hard to say which is "better". if used in a very traditional sense (without all these advanced functions), i'd probably have to go with Maschine. a lot of people don't actually use all the cool aspects of the MD.
Old 12th May 2012
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
you were saying?

oh you're right though, Maschine doesn't do any sort of "seqiuemcing", whatever that is.


sequencing... or in this case ..step editing of modulators..


With machine you can do realtime recording on parameters.. but after that recording you only can overwrite the whole thing again..

and more important.. except of the undo there is no return on a safed state that wouldnt glitch and need a lot of page jumps..

with the MD you can turn the whole pattern to rubble by its encoders, and return to the safed state just by releasing the function button..

Thats performant !

In this regard machine is really rather a composers than a performers tool..

What is of cause no bad thing when you just sit in the studio anyway..

But worth to note that you feel the urge to connect a fader box to machine.. thats actually quite beneficial there...And that alone shows that something is a little odd with the onboard encoders,..


While on the MD you have a very good control despite the small display and only 8 encoders... But you have to sacrifice some of the tracks as control tracks.. But a good concept ..
Old 12th May 2012
  #20
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yep, again you bring up some good points that prospective buyers might not be aware of.

the Machinedrum is my favorite drum machine, and for good reason. with the UW and +Drive options of course, not sure if i'd bother with it otherwise.
Old 12th May 2012
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
yep, again you bring up some good points that prospective buyers might not be aware of.

the Machinedrum is my favorite drum machine, and for good reason. with the UW and +Drive options of course, not sure if i'd bother with it otherwise.

not only prospective buyers.. the alkigohst dont seems to be aware of them either. But rather starnge that he isnt aware about the shortcomings of machine too.. The ideal customer of modern electronic music products..

anyway- i would think that a simple machindrum witout the options is a good tool already too..especially because they go sometimes pretty cheap.

However.. after some years with the MD i am very into analog drummachines again.. Thats the only ones that really do it for me in the long run as it looks.. for complex digital sounds i ve my nords.. and machine?

still evaluating it.. as mpc replacement its quite ok.. but only in relation to the price...And i actuall have to dig a bit deeper what is possible with reaktor.. Machine and reaktor together plus an extra faderbox might be actually a damn nice combo.. just a lot of work to do all the patching in reaktor you would need to turn the whole thing into something better than the MD.. But reaktor has the potential to do that.. no question about that..

And the reaktor integration into machine is pretty well.. no surprise really..

But machine in standalone gives a brilliant reaktor host where you can sequence multiple instances easily..

I ve to try that out at one point when i get bored on the lonely island or so...
Havent used reaktor in a while.. but was big fun back than and machine might respark that,..
Old 12th May 2012
  #22
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That's like asking "is there anything a Virus + sequencer can do that Ableton can't?".

One huge advantage of MD is working out the box with no latency or major jitter issues. It can send and receive midi and sync to other IRL midi devices successfully.

Another is it is a synth. "Hhmm, more pitch decay and a narrower filter band would be good there *click, twist, click, twist - done*". Way easier than editing samples.

Maschine makes a ton of sense if you are working in the box. If you like to be OTB, gear closer to traditional instruments, find DAW to external midi sync to be ridiculous and have other hardware, MD is a better choice.
Old 12th May 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
With machine you can do realtime recording on parameters.. but after that recording you only can overwrite the whole thing again..
What? Of course you can step edit parameters. Where are you getting this bull from? Did NI send ninjas to kill your family or something?

Anyway to the original poster the simple answer is if you don't mind that it is computer based then the maschine has far more options and sounds better. If it simply MUST be a hardware only solution get the Machinedrum.
Old 12th May 2012
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
It really doesnt. It sounds ok, but need a lot of processing to sound good.

I owned both for a good while and got rid of my MD after I got my tempest I couldn't really justify the MD since it was essentially useless to me, there are NO sounds it can make that I cant get easier elsewhere.
Just goes to prove there's no rational to this...

I'm the total opposite. My MD is a huge part of my studio. The tempest, on the other hand, I have real difficulty in integrating sound-wise.
Old 12th May 2012
  #25
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Originally Posted by masaski View Post
Just goes to prove there's no rational to this...

I'm the total opposite. My MD is a huge part of my studio. The tempest, on the other hand, I have real difficulty in integrating sound-wise.
Hey its music, some people like one sound one like another. The tempest is a great real time performance machine, far better than the MD IMHO.

Telling the guy "Buy both and sell the one you don't like" isn't much use

If elektron came out with a new edition of the MD with better FX and a USB and more memory for proper sample management then Id probably sell my octatrack and buy one.
Old 12th May 2012
  #26
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I have both. I don't think they're really very similar at all since one is primarily a drum synthesizer with some sample capabilities and one is entirely sample-based. Plus of course the hardware vs. software thing.

I will say that I use Maschine more, but the MD UW has grown on me. I was pretty negative about it when I first got it (thought about flipping it for a Tempest, etc.) but as I've learned it more I'm definitely keeping it. Though for me the +Drive was a big deal, mine originally didn't have that and that was the biggest negative for me. Once I got it upgraded to +Drive I've enjoyed it.

I mostly sequence from the computer unless I'm using my Oberkorn with CV synths, so I think I miss out on a lot of what makes the MD cool (it's a good but not amazing sound source). But if you wanted to work on drums without turning on the computer the MD would pwn Maschine in the face, of course.
Old 12th May 2012
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
What? Of course you can step edit parameters. Where are you getting this bull from? Did NI send ninjas to kill your family or something?
you fanboys are really a pest... i like NI.. but that dont changes the truth about certain products.. The encoders on the machine are pretty redundant, and in this regard and with the step edit and global control the machine drum is just better. thats its advantage.

Sounds all more like that you havent got your head around the MD and diss it for that now.

And sound quality? thats a matter of taste... machine gives proper daw sound quality..just that..not more or less. the machine drum is a digital beast with a lot of boom that needs to be toniced and tamed.. but can well surpass what you can do inside a daw than.. Reaktor more or less the only plug in that can come at par.....

therfore the machine/reaktor combination is interesting... but work intensive..you are more on the developer side of things than.
But a combo that has potential..
Old 12th May 2012
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
you fanboys are really a pest...
Not fanboy just prefer. elektron are one overhyped company and need a voice of reason from time to time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
Sounds all more like that you havent got your head around the MD and diss it for that now.
No its just not as good as people are being told by elektron fans.
Old 12th May 2012
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
the machine drum is a digital beast with a lot of boom that needs to be toniced and tamed.. but can well surpass what you can do inside a daw than.
I agree. The drum synth on the MD beats the shizz out of anything I have that's sample based on my DAW.
Old 12th May 2012
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
Not fanboy just prefer. elektron are one overhyped company and need a voice of reason from time to time.




No its just not as good as people are being told by elektron fans.
maybe so.. but its not like you initially said that it hasnt anything to offer machine cant do.

Its really like that that the strong points of the MD highlight the weakness of machine. And this is all regarding control over the sounds,..
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