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Studio Electronics Boomstar
Old 24th May 2013
  #1501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSooner View Post

3003 (18dB 303): I have a x0xb0x.

...I only have one 18dB filter (outside of Eurorack). Guess it would come down to 4075 or 3003. Will have to do more research. That 10 min 3003 demo sounds fantastic.
I agree. The 3003 sounds great, and different enough from the moog filter.
But just one correction: the 303 filter isn't a 18db lowpass.
I also thought it was 18db, and places like VintageSynthExplorer say it's an 18db lowpass.
But ROLAND claims otherwise. According to them, it's a 24db lowpass with a quircky design that prevents it from self oscilation.
Here's something from their website:
TB-303 Acid Flashback - Roland U.S. Blog

Inside you'll find this quote:
Quote:
a single oscillator can be switched between a square and saw wave before sculpting with the 24 dB low-pass filter (often misquoted as 18 dB, 3-pole) that can’t even ascend into self-oscillation.
Old 24th May 2013
  #1502
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NWSooner's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
303 filter isn't a 18db lowpass.
You are indeed correct sir. Learn something new every day.
Old 24th May 2013
  #1503
in this age of SMT or DSP, i find this a lovely sight:




i presume the daughterboard on the right is the filter.. also, love how they made all the trimmers for calibration easily accesible by putting them on the front. many, or almost all, monos from the past and present have design that somehow overlooks how insanely important this is in practice.
Old 24th May 2013
  #1504
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

quick question to those reading -- has the SEM version started shipping in quantity yet?
Old 25th May 2013
  #1505
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I was loving that "Wife Expectancy" demo but the "Mean SEM Ranch" one has me thinking the SEM synth sounds way too clean for my tastes... too bad.

Last edited by RJ.MacReady; 25th May 2013 at 01:14 AM.. Reason: missed an important word
Old 25th May 2013
  #1506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
in this age of SMT or DSP, i find this a lovely sight:




i presume the daughterboard on the right is the filter.. also, love how they made all the trimmers for calibration easily accesible by putting them on the front. many, or almost all, monos from the past and present have design that somehow overlooks how insanely important this is in practice.
Besides ease of repair, especially with socketed components, is there really a difference in signal quality between SMT and Through hole? I've heard temp rating concerns with OSC sections but couldn't you just design to run less hot? I assume that's what the new Moogs do. On Mouser you can get about every model Opamp through hole in a smaller SMT package with identical specs.

So is the through-hole vs. SMT debate is more through back cool factor than sound quality?

Just curious, Boomstar will be my next big purchase regardless do to their amazing tone, perfect integration potential in my setup, size and insane feature set.
Old 25th May 2013
  #1507
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lysander's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohulahanbass View Post

So is the through-hole vs. SMT debate is more through back cool factor than sound quality?
I think it's more about the old school cool factor than anything. With some exceptions of old ICs that may be used in some old designs that have a particular sound only being available in through hole.
Regarding the repairability, the smallest SMT packages are extremely hard to work with and are really meant to be used by pick and place machines and reflow soldering, but the larger ones are actually easier to work with by hand than through hole with a bit of practice ( desoldering through hole can be a real bitch ).
Not to mention through hole components are getting progressively obsolete and harder to find by the day, so replacing them in 5-10Y down the line could be a pain.

All that said I absolutely LOVE my Boomstar 4075 and wouldn't trade it in for anything else, best mono I ever got.
Old 25th May 2013
  #1508
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lysander View Post
SMT packages are extremely hard to work with and are really meant to be used by pick and place machines and reflow soldering.

You know that's bull****, I run a accredited service center for a specific manufacturer (PCB rework) and we have been replacing SMT components since the late 90's with pretty basic resoldering stations and they easier to work with than throughole.
Old 25th May 2013
  #1509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyklops View Post
You know that's bull****, I run a accredited service center for a specific manufacturer (PCB rework) and we have been replacing SMT components since the late 90's with pretty basic resoldering stations and they easier to work with than throughole.
I don't think you read what I said, I said the smallest packages, stuff like 01005 to 0201 that you can barely see without a 10x magnifier, for the larger ones I said the same thing as you I think they're much easier to work with than through hole ( in my personal DIY experience ).
Old 25th May 2013
  #1510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lysander View Post
I don't think you read what I said
I think he did. He was just looking for a chance to write the word "bull****" and feel like a big man.
Old 25th May 2013
  #1511
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
I think he did. He was just looking for a chance to write the word "bull****" and feel like a big man.
As I've always said, "The bigger the circuit, the bigger the sound." You can call that bull if you like, but I'm sticking with it. In the hundreds of hours of design, prototyping, beta testing and then later making changes post "final" decisions, we do the following: Series or parallel resistors, repeatedly change resistor and capacitor values and types, replace ICs because of brand or type tolerances, choose different opamps, cut and jump traces under parts, and so on. You tell me how you do that with even the jumbo SMT, forget about the mini stuff. The "yield" on though hole is almost 100% unless you seriously damage it in the wave process. I'd venture to say there is quite a lot of SMT pcbs sitting in landfills. It is far cheaper to toss a small to medium size SMT pcb, than pay an experienced tech to bother to fix it.

Unfortunately at some point, the manufacturing world will leave through hole behind, not because SMT is juat as good or better, but because it is cheaper. While the materials are still available, we'll be hand picking and placing parts through holes. i don't advocate through hole for hand held devices or laptops, just analog synthesizers and pro audio...

Greg
SE

Hey Zahush, did you get your 5089?
Old 25th May 2013
  #1512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogia View Post
Hey Zahush, did you get your 5089?
Not yet. My sister got it, and now she's travelling with it
I had to get it to her on time before she went abroad, but her buisness trip goes from paris, to tokyo, back to paris and then to Israel.
I'm beginning to ask myself wouldn't it have been simpler (even if more expensive due to aditional shipping, VAT and taxes) to have it sent directly here...
Old 27th May 2013
  #1513
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finally made my decision and ordered a unit... the 3003!

it was a tough decision, (especially after reading through the opinions within this thread, haha), but based on the audio clips exclusively, it just had to be the roland for me. it's gonna go nicely with my juno-60 for sure!

most likely will arrive during the first week of june, so expect a demo from me around that time.
Old 27th May 2013
  #1514
Here for the gear
 

oh i have a few questions for anyone who knows too:

-could anyone explain how to operate the LEARN function? i understand what it does, but there are no directions in the manual.

-how do you tell what software "rev" it has? (and perform upgrades, for that matter?)

-the manuals online apparently have a bunch pages displaying preset patches that SE came up with... but all those pages are blank, (except for the first one "Home Base")...
Old 27th May 2013
  #1515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
... love how they made all the trimmers for calibration easily accesible by putting them on the front. many, or almost all, monos from the past and present have design that somehow overlooks how insanely important this is in practice.

Very nice indeed! And no mean feat when designing a pcb....
Old 29th May 2013
  #1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
probably 4075.. this filter design isn't disimilar to how classic rolands filters were built (i.e. late70s/early80s variations).

however, a SEM version would be more complementary to your SH101, being 12dB and multimode.. quite a different sound by default.
Is that the SEM module u bought ? any feed back ? ( loved your SH 101 demo a while back ) ...
I m very interested in the SEM .... ( owner of SE 1 )


PEACE


MORDICUS
Old 29th May 2013
  #1517
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
probably 4075.. this filter design isn't disimilar to how classic rolands filters were built (i.e. late70s/early80s variations).

however, a SEM version would be more complementary to your SH101, being 12dB and multimode.. quite a different sound by default.
Thanks for the input. I think I'm leaning towards the SEM, and now I'm almost wondering if I should sell the 101 in order to fund it (grad student incomes aren't good for buying new instruments). Is that crazy? I do love my 101, but it's my only mono and I'm wondering if I'd be better off with something that sits in a wider niche sound wise...

Plus, those photos above of the Boomstar's insides are beautiful. It really looks like a machine that was constructed to last and be with you for a long time. Makes me think about how much longer my 101 will stay problem free.
Old 1st June 2013
  #1518
Gear Nut
 

Ello fellow slutz,

Here's a little more Boomstar 3003 noise for you.

Following on from my first noodle with the 3003, I set about creating a track just using this lively little beast. I got sidetracked and added other stuff but here's just the 3003 parts with a few bars of (unfinished) track context at the end (inc Ableton Live Operator, Maschine and Waldorf Blofeld).

The sections are either one, two or three 3003 layers with a touch of UAD EP34 delay on some elements.



Loving this thing :-)
Old 1st June 2013
  #1519
I wish they made these units a bit larger about the size of a SEM so many new synths these days seems to be designed for hobits.
Old 1st June 2013
  #1520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirsbro View Post
I wish they made these units a bit larger about the size of a SEM so many new synths these days seems to be designed for hobits.
an inch of wood around the sides would fix that for you
Old 1st June 2013
  #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allthegear.net View Post
Ello fellow slutz,

Here's a little more Boomstar 3003 noise for you.

Following on from my first noodle with the 3003, I set about creating a track just using this lively little beast. I got sidetracked and added other stuff but here's just the 3003 parts with a few bars of (unfinished) track context at the end (inc Ableton Live Operator, Maschine and Waldorf Blofeld).

The sections are either one, two or three 3003 layers with a touch of UAD EP34 delay on some elements.



Loving this thing :-)
thats got me interested
Old 1st June 2013
  #1522
Lives for gear
So, my dear sis took a couple of minutes to take 2 photos of the Boomstar 5089 she'll bring with her:






It's so annoying, knowing i have a synth which i paid for - and it's at my sister's, and it's going to take a few more weeks till it's here in my hands....
Well, at the end it'll get here.
Old 1st June 2013
  #1523
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So which one is everybody getting? Sounds like the ARP and Roland are the most popular ones? Can anybody offer a few tonal adjectives for each of the 4 different options? I'm trying to get my first analog synth (have a Blofeld and a bunch of VSTs) - and these look way nicer than the mopho, slim phatty, tetra, etc. Thanks!
Old 1st June 2013
  #1524
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
So which one is everybody getting? Sounds like the ARP and Roland are the most popular ones? Can anybody offer a few tonal adjectives for each of the 4 different options? I'm trying to get my first analog synth (have a Blofeld and a bunch of VSTs) - and these look way nicer than the mopho, slim phatty, tetra, etc. Thanks!
The oscillators sound great with the filter wide open. The modulation paths are useful and cool. All the other stuff on the box is well thought out.

What I'm saying is - you can't go wrong and you'll probably end up picking up more than one. Decide what filter flavor most interests you first and pick that up. None of them are wrong and none of them are particularly limited.

It would be interesting if later on they sold separate filter modules and you could swap them out as desired. (collect all 4! trade with your friends!)

If you're keeping track, I purchased the 4075 and am on the list for the SEM
Old 2nd June 2013
  #1525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Decide what filter flavor most interests you first and pick that up.
Thanks! For somebody who hasn't had a chance to experience the originals, how would you describe the various filter flavors?
Old 2nd June 2013
  #1526
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
Thanks! For somebody who hasn't had a chance to experience the originals, how would you describe the various filter flavors?
With words, I'd say they are in the spirit of the originals without being a slavish recreation.

The best answer is to listen to all the demos and then just pick one. If you don't have any 24 dB low passs resonant filter synths, a 5089 or 4075 would be great. If you always liked the acidy sound of a TB-303, then go with the 3003. If you like using bandpass and high pass as much as low pass, the get on a waiting list for the SEM version when it ships.
Old 2nd June 2013
  #1527
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worm's Avatar
 

really wish there was a demo of each filter with the synths all playing the same pattern. just something simple with an emphasis on showing the filter off. this would make it much easier for everybody to decide.
Old 3rd June 2013
  #1528
^^^^^^
Yes WORM ; You re right ... i still have to decide in between 4075 and SEM ...
That would be great ... so from now we are 2 people asking for it ... a 1 or 2 bars demo with the 4 differents BOOMSTARS ; filters in action ... Who else wants ????



PEACE


MORDICUS
Old 3rd June 2013
  #1529
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Last edited by rids; 5th June 2013 at 06:39 AM.. Reason: double post....
Old 3rd June 2013
  #1530
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rids's Avatar
 

I decided on and bought the Boomstar 4075. Been playing around with and really like it. I personally like all of the Boomstars. Owning an ATC-Xi, I knew I would. They are all equally intriguing. From the get go, the 3003 and SEM interested me the most. I didn't hear enough of the 4075 to hear it's full range of sounds, so that had quite interested as well. Which is why I wanted to get it.

This thing sounds like a mini 2600. I've never played an Arp 2600, but I've heard other musicians make music with them and this can do those amazing sounds that I've loved. I'm pretty shocked actually. This thing is cooler than I thought. So cool that I'm thinking of selling some gear to buy another Boomstar. I'm an ATC junkie though. This is one of the few times I'm glad I didn't go with an impulse buy for the 3003 or SEM, though I want one. But I would've missed out on the 4075. Fhhhew, that was close

Anyone have any requests for sound clips of the 4075?
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