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Old Akais are sexy - the ultimate Akai thread
Old 20th March 2012
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Yes, like that small difference of wiping the 'almost' off a soft sound by having gone through it.
i agree.. and again a few % closer with the drawmer compressor and the yamaha SPX etc..

really, i think mixing down on an analogue desk would make the biggest difference to a track as a whole, just because of the limitations and the eq more than anything. say an older soundcraft spirit. but.. you need to invest in more AD to do that.
Old 20th March 2012
  #32
dang i just gave myself ensoniq mirage GAS
Old 20th March 2012
  #33
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Just buy an OTO Biscuit.
Old 20th March 2012
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

Just use Akaizer!

The AKAIZER Project

Old 20th March 2012
  #35
szf
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szf's Avatar
For me the 950 sounds great for drums especially when you overdrive the input, 1000/1100 sound great for cleaner, but equally punchy drums..

And as already mentioned, sampling a single note and playing across the whole keyboard sounds really amazing on them.. Remember the 1000/1100s have QUALITY interpolation .. much nicer than the models that came afterwards, as documented here:
The Lost Art Of Sampling

All things considered I'd also recommend the 1000 to the OP.. but try to shop around as 100$ is a bit steep.

Did this shootout recently, covers all the samplers mentioned in the thread..
..Same loop through all of them













Old 20th March 2012
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubber View Post
Just use Akaizer!

The AKAIZER Project

this software just emulates the timestretch algorithm of the older akai samplers. it has nothing to do with the "sound" you get out of them.
Old 20th March 2012
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in_effekt View Post
this software just emulates the timestretch algorithm of the older akai samplers. it has nothing to do with the "sound" you get out of them.
--->

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Try recording the sample at a pitch that's twice as high, then let the sampler play the sample back at half speed.
Old 20th March 2012
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubber View Post
--->
I repeat - this has nothing to do with timestretch.
Old 20th March 2012
  #39
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in_effekt View Post
I repeat - this has nothing to do with timestretch.
i don't talk about timestretch - just take a closer look at the screenshot and you'll find out
Old 20th March 2012
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubber View Post
i don't talk about timestretch - just take a closer look at the screenshot and you'll find out
so he added pitchshifting. ok. once again - when talking about "sampling at higher pitch and then playing the sample at a lower octave", we are talking about the interpolation algorithm the machine uses. and unless the guy can come close to emulating the algorithm used and emulating the sound of the da converters this program is pretty much useless - just you the software sampler of your choice for that, if you're itb.
Old 20th March 2012
  #41
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Rogue Ai's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by szf View Post
For me the 950 sounds great for drums especially when you overdrive the input, 1000/1100 sound great for cleaner, but equally punchy drums..

And as already mentioned, sampling a single note and playing across the whole keyboard sounds really amazing on them.. Remember the 1000/1100s have QUALITY interpolation .. much nicer than the models that came afterwards, as documented here:
The Lost Art Of Sampling

All things considered I'd also recommend the 1000 to the OP.. but try to shop around as 100$ is a bit steep.

Did this shootout recently, covers all the samplers mentioned in the thread..
..Same loop through all of them













From what I can tell, the last 3 sound the same as the original.
Old 20th March 2012
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szf View Post
And as already mentioned, sampling a single note and playing across the whole keyboard sounds really amazing on them.. Remember the 1000/1100s have QUALITY interpolation .. much nicer than the models that came afterwards, as documented here:
The Lost Art Of Sampling
thats interesting.. never really nailed it why i liked my s-1100 so much better.. had a s3200xl at one point but sold it again soo after with losses because i couldnt get warm with it..

but beside the inerpolation there is also a heavier sub range in the DA´s.. when you tune down the test tone SIN wave sample in the S-1100 very low the walls start shaking.. never got this out of the 3000 series at least not so physical and articulated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
From what I can tell, the last 3 sound the same as the original.
thas not the art of a sampler to sound the same on root pitch.. even the casio fz 1 was pretty good in that..and any tape machne can do that too... its what happens when you play it´s samples polyphonic on the keyboard..

with the plug in samplers thats really no fun.. they are only ok for single shots...


from the audio example i find the S-950 the most interesting...


but actually.. more expensiv in the 1000.- department.. but there is nothing as cool and crunchy as an emulator 2.. for monster house chords the bomb
Old 20th March 2012
  #43
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_effekt View Post
and unless the guy can come close to emulating the algorithm used
That's not hard. Stretch on the original, save the file, open it up and compare.

The timestretching and pitching algorithms have textbook examples. The hardest part is not so much timestretching itself - you could probably work that out with pen and paper and punch the numbers in some 70's mainframe yourself; it's doing it fast enough (and nowadays, doing it in realtime).

The age of the sampler pretty much defines how "naive" they are towards material, because the smarter they are, the more computing power they require.

As you already will know - a smart timestretch asks the user (or detects it itself by analyzing the sample) whether it's dealing with something melodic or a percussion loop. In the case of the latter, a smart timestretch will not stretch every grain equally but detects the transients and tries to stretch the silences between them as much as possible. This requires more effort than implementing a generic high-performance timestretching algorithm for a slow processor.

Quote:
and emulating the sound of the da converters this program is pretty much useless
Well - arguably, it'll do the job much faster with much bigger files than the Akai will, and if it's bit-for-bit accurate then you could put it back in an Akai without waiting a full minute for the timestretching to finish. You'd be able to find sweet spots or happy accidents faster than you'd do on the sampler itself.

I suggested Morgana because trying it costs (nearly) nothing, while finding a hardware sampler and then finding out that that wasn't enough would cost more in time and effort.

If Morgana would've exhibited the desired effect in sufficient measure already, it'd save the topicstarter some work of hunting down a fully loaded working Akai. If it doesn't, no big loss, you can still go on the 'bay and see how lucky you are.
Old 20th March 2012
  #44
szf
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szf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
From what I can tell, the last 3 sound the same as the original.
The 1100 recording has a higher noisefloor, due to the outputs not being as hot as the 1000.. Also find they sound more compressed and fatter than the original loop to me, with nicer highend.

the 3200 ... some ppl say it's plastic sounding, can't think of a better description, dowload the wavs, and listen to the 1st sec or 2 of each loop in quick succession, you'll start to pickup lots of these subtle differences.

I also compared the 3200 vs 1000/1100 on a multisampled rhodes from a AKAI CD... the 3200 was destroyed, but on the other hand the 3200 sounded even punchier than the 1000 when triggering the same 808 samples in another test I did..
Old 20th March 2012
  #45
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
i personally never liked the sound of the 3000 series.
I've been fortunate enough to have tried quite a range of different Akai's over the years, and my impression was that it all changed from the XL series onwards. I still think the original S3000's series are great sounding. However, the S3000XL just seemed generic and lost that mojo.. But then, although they look very similar, the innards are very different from anything Akai had used before. Which I thought explained the sound..

Thats just my 2 bpm's worth though
Old 20th March 2012
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
That's not hard. Stretch on the original, save the file, open it up and compare.

The timestretching and pitching algorithms have textbook examples. The hardest part is not so much timestretching itself - you could probably work that out with pen and paper and punch the numbers in some 70's mainframe yourself; it's doing it fast enough (and nowadays, doing it in realtime).

The age of the sampler pretty much defines how "naive" they are towards material, because the smarter they are, the more computing power they require.

As you already will know - a smart timestretch asks the user (or detects it itself by analyzing the sample) whether it's dealing with something melodic or a percussion loop. In the case of the latter, a smart timestretch will not stretch every grain equally but detects the transients and tries to stretch the silences between them as much as possible. This requires more effort than implementing a generic high-performance timestretching algorithm for a slow processor.


Well - arguably, it'll do the job much faster with much bigger files than the Akai will, and if it's bit-for-bit accurate then you could put it back in an Akai without waiting a full minute for the timestretching to finish. You'd be able to find sweet spots or happy accidents faster than you'd do on the sampler itself.

I suggested Morgana because trying it costs (nearly) nothing, while finding a hardware sampler and then finding out that that wasn't enough would cost more in time and effort.

If Morgana would've exhibited the desired effect in sufficient measure already, it'd save the topicstarter some work of hunting down a fully loaded working Akai. If it doesn't, no big loss, you can still go on the 'bay and see how lucky you are.
i was just trying to say, that timestretching (changing the length of the sample while maintaining its pitch) and pitchshifting (changing the pitch of the sample while maintaining its length) has nothing to do with the contents of this thread - the "sound" that the thread starter is looking for.

edit: on another hand, your suggestion of morgana is absolutely spot on here. there's a demo to try and decide whether it can get you that "sound". if it doesn't - well, look for some older s-series sampler, there's plenty of suggestions in the thread already.
Old 20th March 2012
  #47
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Yeah in terms of the OP, timestretch is not the issue... but for me it's a big part of why I have an s950 rather than the other akais.
Old 20th March 2012
  #48
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S-900 or S-950.. are quite different beasts than the s1000 series..
For me the S-900 was allways the Bass machine

Even when the s-1100 was the more important companion for me that finally made the prommiss of sampling true that you really can capture what you have on tape..and therfore a real production machine..
But in the actual context of today?..
As more coloration and character as better.. all the production machine department is in the box now.
That brings the sampler back as just a keyboard instrument..and therefor how they transpose and what kind of aliasing artefacts they produce is the attraction..as older..as better.. we have vintage digital now.

And i guess the prices of old hardware samplers will go up again.. we probably are just triggering the prices with this thread ;-)
Old 20th March 2012
  #49
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apres garde View Post
i do have the option of picking up a k2000s for a nice rate. How do the converters on that stack up to an older akai?


edit* especially when I'd get more use out of the k2000, probs
Totally different animal. Creamy and wet sounding, and a little slowish for drums, but made up by the awesome envelopes. And the AMP output page, which if you crank it lets you 'play into the crack' of the overdrive it gives.

Much, much more possibilities, but not the sound of 90's house. Still, I might have to get one of these back too, loved my previous one for many years....get one with sample inputs if you go there, i.e. K2000RS.
Old 20th March 2012
  #50
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Yeah, I might try and get both. $300 for the k2000s, and $100ish for an s900-s1100

DAMN IT, I was supposed to be downsizing in my little bedroom studio!
Old 20th March 2012
  #51
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Interestingly...

the k2000 will load most any other samplers disk's, and an s950 file loaded up in the k2000 and played raw and non transposed still sounds pretty much like an s950 -- so there is a lot of truth to the AD front end being the key to the sound of sampler. Difference are evident when you pitch up and down, and of course a nice analog section on the way out adds some dimension.

Anyhow a kurzweil is a great companion to any vintage sampler whose files are compatible.
Old 20th March 2012
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apres garde View Post
Yeah, I might try and get both. $300 for the k2000s, and $100ish for an s900-s1100

DAMN IT, I was supposed to be downsizing in my little bedroom studio!
heahahah! Expand it to the living room and the kitchen (Although in NYC that's likely to be the same). Nothing has helped my productivity more than being able to make beats while cooking dinner. Helps if your roommates are into music too. lol
Old 20th March 2012
  #53
Gear Addict
 

OP, I felt the same as you so recently I got an MPC2000xl. For individual samples it does add some low-mid range punch to some kicks and warms up chords that have more bottom end. Other times the sounds are almost identical to the source.
Old 20th March 2012
  #54
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Famous last words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apres garde View Post
Yeah, I might try and get both. $300 for the k2000s, and $100ish for an s900-s1100

DAMN IT, I was supposed to be downsizing in my little bedroom studio!
Old 20th March 2012
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apres garde View Post
Yeah, I might try and get both. $300 for the k2000s, and $100ish for an s900-s1100

DAMN IT, I was supposed to be downsizing in my little bedroom studio!
the only way is up

and its surprising how many keyboards can fit in a bedroom

Old 20th March 2012
  #56
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omegaomega's Avatar
 

What about the FZ-1 guys?
Any users of that and what you think about its sound?...
Old 20th March 2012
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubber View Post
Just use Akaizer!

The AKAIZER Project
Sound of Akai S1000 is defined by its input converters, transposition algorithms, output converters and VCA. Not by the timestretch function.

Timestretch is just an effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
The timestretching and pitching algorithms have textbook examples. The hardest part is not so much timestretching itself - you could probably work that out with pen and paper and punch the numbers in some 70's mainframe yourself; it's doing it fast enough (and nowadays, doing it in realtime).
........................
Oh please not this timestretch again.

heh
Old 21st March 2012
  #58
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My only samplers are my MPC60 and S950, and yes, they sound great for sampling vinyl loops, drum hits, synths and resampled chords. It gives a nice compression and phatness. The only problem is sometimes, is mixing in raw synths (mine: Juno60, M1000, ESQ and TX81Z), the synths cut way too much through the 12-bit samples and is a little hard to match together - like you said, the synths are too bright, shiny, metallic, etc compared to my akai samples in the mix. Somethings help, like reverbs, fx, chorus, analog filtering.. but not enough sometimes. I think a solution would be to compress the synths with a dirty compressor. But, I have no more. I only have a 3630, and that's already strictly on sidechain duties. Still looking for a some nice ways to match my clean sounding raw synths to my 12-bit/akai samples in the mix better.
Old 21st March 2012
  #59
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all the akais sound deep to me except the s3000xl onwards. I have many cream beasts and the one I will never part with is my fully expanded s950, it's such a ****ing beast! whatever I put into it comes out gold, chunky and fat. no lie.
Old 21st March 2012
  #60
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bugscoe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apres garde View Post
Just checked ebay and an s1000 in good condition just went for $100.
Wow. I've got a S3000 sitting around that I used to use to death back in the 90's. Just can't see parting ways with it for that price...
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