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What Happened to Tangerine Dream? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 28th February 2012
  #1
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What Happened to Tangerine Dream?

I guess this is a bit of a moan, really (but probably better here than the Moan Zone).

I got the 35th Anniversary DVD yesterday and while I'm only halfway through it, am rather disappointed already.

Sound quality aside (sounds like an overcompressed VHS recording), technical issues forgiven (Pheadra '05- very glitchy sequences) it really does come across as a half-arsed attempt at recreating their music.

Stuff like Rubycon and Underwater Twighlight, where they are just playing digital synths (the same sounds they've been using since 1986) over a playback of the original tracks just seem like a real cop out from a band that were IMMENSELY creative, progressive and innovative during their heyday.

I realise that some of these tracks are extremely complex, but surely they are more than equipped and experienced enough to put together a new live performance of them, even with new sounds.

It's quite nice to hear the piano performances on it though (and Edgar's humour in dusting the thing off for the Ricochet opening), but what's going on with that piano? It really sounds like either bad edits or notes just cutting out.

I know that opinion of their music from the mid 80s onward tends to polarise fans (in my opinion, it's been generic, samey and twee since about 1988- perhaps this is a symptom of that same thing?), and I'm not criticising pre-programming thing (part of their thing and kind of necessary for this sort of show) or accusing of miming (this is often just bad video editing and common for electronic shows) but Klaus Schulze does a better job on his own than they manage with up to 6 musicians onstage.

I'm kind of relieved that I didn't get tickets for the coming Berlin show (and shelled out for flights and hotel..)


[/rant]
Old 28th February 2012
  #2
I stopped buying their records and going to their concerts after Tangerine Dream became basically Edgar Froeses Solo Project. Didn't like most of the remixed/remodeled versions of their old tracks, especially the sounds. Also they (re)released like dozens of albums every year which was a bit too much for me (new releases, remastered versions, old albums recorded again...).
Old 28th February 2012
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the donal View Post
I guess this is a bit of a moan, really (but probably better here than the Moan Zone).

I got the 35th Anniversary DVD yesterday and while I'm only halfway through it, am rather disappointed already.

Sound quality aside (sounds like an overcompressed VHS recording), technical issues forgiven (Pheadra '05- very glitchy sequences) it really does come across as a half-arsed attempt at recreating their music.

Stuff like Rubycon and Underwater Twighlight, where they are just playing digital synths (the same sounds they've been using since 1986) over a playback of the original tracks just seem like a real cop out from a band that were IMMENSELY creative, progressive and innovative during their heyday.

I realise that some of these tracks are extremely complex, but surely they are more than equipped and experienced enough to put together a new live performance of them, even with new sounds.

It's quite nice to hear the piano performances on it though (and Edgar's humour in dusting the thing off for the Ricochet opening), but what's going on with that piano? It really sounds like either bad edits or notes just cutting out.

I know that opinion of their music from the mid 80s onward tends to polarise fans (in my opinion, it's been generic, samey and twee since about 1988- perhaps this is a symptom of that same thing?), and I'm not criticising pre-programming thing (part of their thing and kind of necessary for this sort of show) or accusing of miming (this is often just bad video editing and common for electronic shows) but Klaus Schulze does a better job on his own than they manage with up to 6 musicians onstage.

I'm kind of relieved that I didn't get tickets for the coming Berlin show (and shelled out for flights and hotel..)


[/rant]
I caught their live show at Moogfest 2011 and indeed the music was rather bland although expertly played. What made it for me was the live drummer/percussionist woman they had on stage - she played standing up and brought immense physicality to her performance... like a barbarian warrior queen wielding a pair of mallets... extremely fun! Never caught her name though.
Old 28th February 2012
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunaticpark View Post
I stopped buying their records and going to their concerts after Tangerine Dream became basically Edgar Froeses Solo Project. Didn't like most of the remixed/remodeled versions of their old tracks, especially the sounds. Also they (re)released like dozens of albums every year which was a bit too much for me (new releases, remastered versions, old albums recorded again...).
this is the thing I think. It's the overuse of 'that' chorused pad sound and 'that' oboe-ish lead sound all over everything. Though I'd be interested in the latest re-issue of Underwater Sunlight. Apparently a proper remaster has been done and an extended version of Dolphin Dance included. These sounds started creeping in with Exit onwards. The last album of theirs I thought any good was Optical Race, which was well on the path to decline. Lilly on the Beach is very dull.

The Tangents box set has got a bunch of rerecordings- will the originals dubbed with extra stuff from Froese that's really not needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by controlvoltage View Post
I caught their live show at Moogfest 2011 and indeed the music was rather bland although expertly played. What made it for me was the live drummer/percussionist woman they had on stage - she played standing up and brought immense physicality to her performance... like a barbarian warrior queen wielding a pair of mallets... extremely fun! Never caught her name though.
That's Iris Camaa, according to credits. She does enliven the show. While I accept that they were always fairly stoic onstage, on the anniversary DVD I'm watching they really look like they don't want to be there! (I gather there was tension between father and son Froese too from other reviews/reports).

If only Franke would do another show, like that recorded on The London Concert. I'd love to see that. Sadly, much of his recorded material is fairly bland, but fair credit to his soundtrack work. The London Concert took all the best of his stuff and his sequencing skils, plus a few TD classics.
Old 28th February 2012
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunaticpark View Post
I stopped buying their records and going to their concerts after Tangerine Dream became basically Edgar Froeses Solo Project. Didn't like most of the remixed/remodeled versions of their old tracks, especially the sounds. Also they (re)released like dozens of albums every year which was a bit too much for me (new releases, remastered versions, old albums recorded again...).
Pretty much the same assessment I made.

I haven't liked anything TD has done since 1983. No interest in the box set when I learned they were remixed.

Their live concert CDs from the early 80s are great stuff.

And Edgar needs to put that [email protected] guitar away!
Old 28th February 2012
  #6
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Originally Posted by The Real MC View Post
And Edgar needs to put that [email protected] guitar away!
But it's analog!
Old 28th February 2012
  #7
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They woke up from dreaming.
Old 28th February 2012
  #8
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The short answer is: Edgar got old. Well of course they all did, but he's the only one left from the band's prime years. That I can understand, but taking the band's and his own solo material and dumping ROMpler sounds (which ironically, now sound more dated than the original timbres) on top? That just makes no sense to me.


I lost interest in TD after Christopher Franke left. Ironically, aside from the "Klemania" album, I found much of Franke's solo material was also lacking the imagination of TD's better years.

The soundtrack for "The Celestine Prophecy" was the point at which all hope was lost.
Old 29th February 2012
  #9
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Ha..so I had to stop myself from posting something about this having watched the Orange Odyssey concert DVD the other evening,
as part of my background studies to better understand Synth/Electronica history and wander more informed through the alleyways of this Forum, as I didnt really know their work before.

(warning.contains dvd concert spoilers and personal opinion)

Whilst the majority of the badly engineered concert had me yawning and trying to sustain if not empathy with the music;
then at least a recognition of its worth musically,academically, technically, historically....
When for the finale they broke into a cover of Purple Haze ! , I was spluttering with incredulity as I tried to understand why..I thought as their young guitarist gave it the full screaming solo..aha.. The synth players are going to give it back and more so...
With lightning virtuosity and screaming modwheels they were gonna finally show that a synth can be as expressive as that amplified plank...after all, the synths hadnt gotten past eight notes all concert never mind a solo...here it comes.......

Nope.
Not a twiddle to match the guitarists wailing outburst
Nothing.
Except they had both STOOD UP to play for the first time all evening (remaining seated for their own stuff).

And then , as I sighed at what might have been, the ground opened up before me as a rising wave of horror filled my very core, a rising ray of recognition of those four chords beginning to play , a rising wave of painful memories I had spent decades trying to forget, rising like the sun, from a childhood house, a house.......of the rising sun.

After thirty years of creating their own music in new sonorous landscapes with new instruments , having built their careers on the validity of synthesisers and electronica as a music, an artform....they finished the concert with a cover of the House of The Rising Sun.

So they played a couple of covers ,probably to keep their young gun guitarists happy , you might say .so what ,get over it.!
Well i 'm just glad I wasnt a fan, who'd travelled far to see their idols undermine their very career,and their previous achievements.

Thus en the personal opinion.
Old 29th February 2012
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real MC View Post
I haven't liked anything TD has done since 1983.
Yeah, I believe the officially recognized cutoff date is the transition from "The Virgin Years" to "The Blue Years", which I think is code for "we're using presets and conjuring images of dental office waiting rooms". Strangely the first CD I bought with my own money, at 8 years old, was their stupid Private Music compilation (why?). This means that I'll never be able to use the Yamaha TG77's "Hone" preset without gagging.

Quote:
And Edgar needs to put that [email protected] guitar away!
Christ, no kidding! He can ruin anything with those guitar solos. That's kind of a unique talent, actually. It usually takes a saxophone to inflict that kind of damage.
Old 29th February 2012
  #11
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I'd rather eat a bowl of live tapeworms than listen to the current version of Tangerine Dream.
Old 29th February 2012
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real MC View Post

I haven't liked anything TD has done since 1975.

And Edgar needs to put that [email protected] guitar away!
Fixed that for you
Old 29th February 2012
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acreil View Post
Yeah, I believe the officially recognized cutoff date is the transition from "The Virgin Years" to "The Blue Years", which I think is code for "we're using presets and conjuring images of dental office waiting rooms". Strangely the first CD I bought with my own money, at 8 years old, was their stupid Private Music compilation (why?). This means that I'll never be able to use the Yamaha TG77's "Hone" preset without gagging.



Christ, no kidding! He can ruin anything with those guitar solos. That's kind of a unique talent, actually. It usually takes a saxophone to inflict that kind of damage.
There's that on the concert too.

Actually, Edgar does turn up with a guitar at one point and plays something nice sounding with a vowel filter and then switches to that awful guitar tone he used (though it sounded nice when DJ Shadow sampled it on Endtroducing- come to think of it, the guitar parts on Stratosfear were OK anyway.)

Jerome is a 'quite' good guitarist- in that he uses average hammer-ons and tapping licks to sound better than he is (the other guitarist that plays with them- Zlatco Perica- is actually very good).

But the sax inclusion is very Kenny G.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha View Post
I'd rather eat a bowl of live tapeworms than listen to the current version of Tangerine Dream.
Lol. Yeah.

I think there is some stuff from the Jive years that was good. Bits of Le Parc, bits of Tyger, Poland, all of Underwater Sunlight (one of my favourite TD albums).

Even Optical Race has a few good tracks, but it all goes very plinky-plonky from there...

The Legend and Near Dark soundtracks are good too.

But the seventies are where it was at for this band...

As for Edgar getting old, well fair enough. But he wasn't that old in the late 80s.... Probably too much time spent in lifts and malls in the US of A...
Old 29th February 2012
  #14
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Although they didn't do much that was good after the 70s, (Rubycon and Ricochet are my faves), Hyperborea (c 1983 I think) is a very underrated album IMHO, as long as you skip the 'single' track Cinnamon Road.

I also have a soft spot for Edgar Froese's Pinnacles. It was the first CD I ever bought so it got played to death cos for a while it was the only CD I owned.
Old 29th February 2012
  #15
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For me, it's Rubycon, Tangram and U/W Sunlight as the absolute favourites. The trilogy, though- Phaedra, Ricochet and Rubycon have got to be their 'best' albums.

Thankfully Klaus Schulze is still flying the flag for Berlin School artists still making good music in that style.

Thinking about it, in an interview on the Rheingold DVD, Klaus does mention that Edgar told him that America wouldn't be the place for Klaus, as they didn't dig the long-form introspective stuff. I guess that's why TD went the way they went..
Old 29th February 2012
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the donal View Post
Thankfully Klaus Schulze is still flying the flag for Berlin School artists still making good music in that style.
Also Node have a new album due out pretty soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the donal View Post
Thinking about it, in an interview on the Rheingold DVD, Klaus does mention that Edgar told him that America wouldn't be the place for Klaus, as they didn't dig the long-form introspective stuff. I guess that's why TD went the way they went..
I also think it had a lot to do with the changing technology. The inherent strengths/limitations of analogue sequencers lend themselves to that style. Once they got Atari STs it all went pear shaped.
Old 29th February 2012
  #17
tun
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Gotta agree, the last decent album TD made was Poland. Anything and everything they've done since '84 is about as interesting as watching paint dry. Edgar should've bowed out gracefully when he ran out of things to say musically. Surely he doesn't need the money?
Old 29th February 2012
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH View Post
Also Node have a new album due out pretty soon.



I also think it had a lot to do with the changing technology. The inherent strengths/limitations of analogue sequencers lend themselves to that style. Once they got Atari STs it all went pear shaped.
This did occur to me. That and Chris Franke running off with all their Moogs etc! (I've often wondered what the true story is here- but asides alluding to it and stating that Chris Franke is the one former bandmate Froese wouldn't share a cuppa with, what really happened there? Did he just take the gear after a row. Did he front the money in the first place? Who knows)

But Schulze has access to the same gear and still turns out beautiful inspiring soundscapes that are of a certain style. I'm not saying people shouldn't move on, but at least when you do, make it good!
Old 29th February 2012
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subhertz View Post
..

And then , as I sighed at what might have been, the ground opened up before me as a rising wave of horror filled my very core, a rising ray of recognition of those four chords beginning to play , a rising wave of painful memories I had spent decades trying to forget, rising like the sun, from a childhood house, a house.......of the rising sun...
Lol, that's pretty hilarious.

Thx for the heads up on the DVD, I'll spare myself the disappointment.
Old 29th February 2012
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Lol, that's pretty hilarious.

Thx for the heads up on the DVD, I'll spare myself the disappointment.
Probly best.

I haven't got to the end yet- at nearly 3 hours long, I'm splitting into several sittings.

House of the Rising Sun. Duh! Most rock covers bands are loth to cover that!

And yes- I've never really got the Purple Haze thing. It's not like they do it well (saw it on the 3 Phase video years ago).
Old 29th February 2012
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by the donal View Post
(I've often wondered what the true story is here- but asides alluding to it and stating that Chris Franke is the one former bandmate Froese wouldn't share a cuppa with, what really happened there?
http://http://star.arm.ac.uk/~ath/mu...Grahe_eng.html

"EF: Of course there were also remarks that hurt me. For example from Christoph Franke, whom I worked with the longest time. That was when he stated for economical reasons (and since he lives in LA you can draw your own conclusions) that during the time we worked together, I was the one to run the business and he the one to play the music.

That really hits you, because a) it doesn't reflect the truth and there are dozens of people who can testify against that, and b) it is bad style to treat one another like that. Those are things I believe could have been dealt with more intelligently and more sensitively."
Old 29th February 2012
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH View Post
Also Node have a new album due out pretty soon.
Wow. Hell. How did I miss that when I read your post before?!!

Node are ACE! I love that first album- used to doze to it and have really strange dreams.

I hope they do another gig in Paddington (or any other) station - would love to see that!

This is the best music news I've had for a while!
Old 29th February 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjporter View Post
http://http://star.arm.ac.uk/~ath/mu...Grahe_eng.html

"EF: Of course there were also remarks that hurt me. For example from Christoph Franke, whom I worked with the longest time. That was when he stated for economical reasons (and since he lives in LA you can draw your own conclusions) that during the time we worked together, I was the one to run the business and he the one to play the music.

That really hits you, because a) it doesn't reflect the truth and there are dozens of people who can testify against that, and b) it is bad style to treat one another like that. Those are things I believe could have been dealt with more intelligently and more sensitively."
I think this is the interview that prompted that comment-

Chris Franke: The Sequencer King

Interesting reading...
Old 22nd May 2017
  #24
Here for the gear
 

TD peaked mid 70's to '81 Tangram

I love Tangerine Dream from mid 70's to '81. Each consecutive album organic, analog, bubbling, unpredictable, melodic, fizzy, original, atmospheric, brilliant in own way. Something left in the early 80's. Was it Franke's departure? Was rise of digital? Was it commercial interest in soundtracks that eventually dimmed the spark? Was it age? I can't figure it out. Artists change.

I give credit to Froese for his voluminous output through decades. A truly creative man and inspirational soul. Just my aesthetic, perhaps. Have not heard any ambient or electronic music that has moved me nearly as much as that TD golden era.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #25
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Probably just stating the obvious, but Edgar Froese died on January 20th, 2015.

One of his last projects, or maybe his last, was a collaboration with Jean-Micheal Jarre on the Electronica album, the song called Gravity.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mralbert View Post
Probably just stating the obvious, but Edgar Froese died on January 20th, 2015.
And another statement of the obvious is that this thread started in 2012.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #27
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I thought the involvement with Ulrich Schnauss is worth mentioning.

Sadly his collaboration with Froese was short because of his passing.

I am not sure whether or not he will have a bigger involvement in the continuation of TD though as he is mostly a solo artist. If you dont know his music I recommend to check him out.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #28
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They went from analog to digital. In their case, I'd stay analog or hibrid. Ofc Froese passing must have affected even more the band.

From this:


To this:
Old 22nd May 2017
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omaritaylor View Post
Tangerine Dream had a few interesting experiments in the late 70's, but they really take the cake for jumping the shark after that. We're talking about 2 completely different bands here. By the early 80's, this band was making muzak of the absolute worst kind and the drivel continued from there. I've heard better cheese from the soundtrack to my local auto parts store commercial.

I couldn't disagree more From 1981:

Old 22nd May 2017
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Falcon View Post
I couldn't disagree more From 1981:
+1
And this one:
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