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Plugiator vs Creamware Abs vs Arturia vs Gforce Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 4th March 2012
  #31
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Hello guys,
I own plugiator too, but just use it in the church for live performances, mainly for its B4000, which sounds pretty crappy when you use the internal leslie, but i route it to a Neo Ventilator, which makes it a very versatile solution. Occasionally i also use the Minimax , Pro12, and Prodyssey too.
They sounds amazing IMHO. But never use the L/R Output, it sounds so bad and hisses alot. I use the headphone out which is alot cleaner.
I also had Minimonsta, also demoed Arturia once, and now i have U-he Diva.
Minimax can compete with all of them, and sometimes sounds even fatter. I don't use the filters alot, so i can't say anything about any aliasing, which is irrelevant anyway for me, as i use it mainly for live. But as a minimoog synthbass emulation, a prophet lead, or some odyssey pads source, it really rocks! But you may need an fx pedal for your verb which it lacks, and of course a decent controller with some extra knobs and fader.
It's also very handy due to its size, it's very small, i can carry it around with me and feel awesome having B3, minimoog, prophet, etc, in the palm of my hand. And it's cheap! It's like the poor man's arturia origin, with an extra b3.

So where are the disadvantages? U-he Diva may smoke it soundwise, but still, it's quasi a hardware, no cpu spike problem whatsoever, ideal for live or just playing around. Like i said L/R output is useless, and i also experienced some bug with some CC controller with some plugs, but i haven't spend enough time to track the problem and fix it. I also had some notes hanging sometime when i play too many notes at the same time, but i never play live like that, so it's okay. What else? Oh, preset changes are not that seamless, takes about 2 seconds, it's not multitimbral, it may be an issue for others, but not for me.

Back to the main question, i would rank them:
1. U-he Diva
2. Minimonsta - Minimax - draw
3. Arturia
Old 4th March 2012
  #32
I read about this high pitched thing, but its only when using usb, and i dont have that issue at all.

Diva is cool, but expensive, for 100 more i get plugiator. Diva is a cpu hog as well.

Diva does not alias as bad as the plugiator either. WOW. But i think the osc sounds better in the plugiator.
Old 4th March 2012
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Evil: The an1x is a good synth, still it does not emulate old analogs as well as these do.
I don't care about it emulating old analogs. It sounds great as it is, it has its own character that I love and adore.
Old 4th March 2012
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
I read about this high pitched thing, but its only when using usb, and i dont have that issue at all.

Diva is cool, but expensive, for 100 more i get plugiator. Diva is a cpu hog as well.

Diva does not alias as bad as the plugiator either. WOW. But i think the osc sounds better in the plugiator.
True, true, Cpu useage in Diva is a huge issue, if you have a slow CPU. But it still worth it.
Too bad Creamware made some bad decisions, couldn't get their thing together, and went bankrupt. Otherwise their products, or at least the ideas behind it were very good!
The italian company, GEM was also one of those companies i wished to have more luck.
Old 4th March 2012
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin View Post
I'm not sure you could make VST plug-ins of Scope devices - how would you even port the code of the Sharc DSP to a native format? How much processing would each instrument take? Anyway if they did manage it the synths would be on a torrent site within a week, so I can't see much advantage for Sonic Core being another 'me too' VST-brand.
I'd be happy with a scope pcie card for synth and fx, digital stream no i/o, bundle 2-3 synths good to go.... Plugiator has 4 vi included,converters,some knobs and costs ~400euros. So pcie dsp seems an affordable solution and the scope platform has many optional synths to choose, i like the demos.
Old 4th March 2012
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by audslu View Post
I'd be happy with a scope pcie card for synth and fx, digital stream no i/o, bundle 2-3 synths good to go.... Plugiator has 4 vi included,converters,some knobs and costs ~400euros. So pcie dsp seems an affordable solution and the scope platform has many optional synths to choose, i like the demos.
I'd buy that for a dollar
Old 4th March 2012
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I don't care about it emulating old analogs. It sounds great as it is, it has its own character that I love and adore.
I agree, it was not really my cup of tea, it did great strings and some cool arps, but on bass I preferred my virus, and for leads the nord lead. Sill it is a digital classic, but I personally like the plugiator more. Just my opinion.
Old 4th March 2012
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
Its hard to see in the lighting conditions. But if its a Motif, certainly gets the job done.
I know on the Reality tour he was using a Motif ES8, but that came out in 2003 and that A&E concert dates to 2002. Original Motif was 2001. It could also be sounds he built up in his fully expanded Kurzweil K2600. It's mentioned pretty heavily in various gear talks over the years and it pre-dates the concert. Garson is amazing no matter what gear he's playing
Old 4th March 2012
  #39
Plugiator is better than most all vsts. I like it more that diva as well.
Old 5th March 2012
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSooner View Post
Uh... no synth is that good. Besides, someone already sold theirs on the John Bowen forum. Said they needed the money. Life happens.
God I hate being wrong...
He is an old forumite for years, sent him the transcription to Tarkus I & II. I hope he's OK.

It looks like the lurkers over there have some cash.
I wish I could sell my gear on ebay that quick.
I always put it up for dirt cheap and nobody buys it.

MIDI Solutions F8 | eBay
Old 5th March 2012
  #41
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Old 5th March 2012
  #42
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Spectral Climax's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audslu View Post
Not sure if trolling.. the old pci with 14 sharcs and converters:

Creamware Scope Professional Audio Card - Balanced XLR Version | DV247

^2,547.99 usd

Don't wait for the tooth fairy anytime soon.
Yes, last time I had checked, the price was "Oombaloomba"...doesn't worth it in pci form IMO....also, i think that Sonic Core doesn't produce it anymore...on their site they only have the xite-1 product. The funny thing is that many pro audio companies insist with express cards, when almost all laptop companies have abandoned that option...the same happens with firewire...only Macbooks have them, but audio products also have Windows drivers...go figure...
Old 5th March 2012
  #43
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Out of interest, are the Creamware ASB boxes totally closed off now? If my Minimax ever threw up an issue, are there any certified service centres left?
Old 5th March 2012
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
Out of interest, are the Creamware ASB boxes totally closed off now? If my Minimax ever threw up an issue, are there any certified service centres left?


Support für abgekündigte Produkte
Old 5th March 2012
  #45
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Old 5th March 2012
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax View Post
Yes, last time I had checked, the price was "Oombaloomba"...doesn't worth it in pci form IMO....also, i think that Sonic Core doesn't produce it anymore...on their site they only have the xite-1 product. The funny thing is that many pro audio companies insist with express cards, when almost all laptop companies have abandoned that option...the same happens with firewire...only Macbooks have them, but audio products also have Windows drivers...go figure...
I'd buy a solaris for 5 dollars.
Old 5th March 2012
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax View Post
Yes, last time I had checked, the price was "Oombaloomba"...doesn't worth it in pci form IMO....also, i think that Sonic Core doesn't produce it anymore...on their site they only have the xite-1 product.

PCI definitely is not worth that type money, i agree. Old protocol (tho PCI is still not dead) and very old dsp's (tho still can be expanded and provides still ALOT of use) are'nt worth such a huge investment. Most people buy those PCI cards used for a good price and imo used is a good cheap way to explore the SCOPE Platform wich has imo the best sounding digital synths i've heard (apart from Solaris wich is a Sonic Core/JB creation as well).

QUOTE=Spectral Climax;7635145] The funny thing is that many pro audio companies insist with express cards, when almost all laptop companies have abandoned that option...the same happens with firewire...only Macbooks have them, but audio products also have Windows drivers...go figure... [/QUOTE]


Expresscards are still being made even if they are getting rarer, so as long as they can still be bought that's all that really matters imo. Don't need universal availability just need availability. Expresscard was and still is the only real solution since thunderbolt is'nt even ready for PC's. Expresscard is the fastests with greatest bandwidth needed for DSP solutions (Other interfaces like RME can get away with USB, Firewire, etc but not large DSP Platforms), Expresscard is the only real solution ATM for a Window's based dsp product and any O/S where VERY large bandwidth is needed. Sometimes Audio manufacturers don't have much of a choice but to work with certain protocols and hardware. Sonic Core was the only ones able to get large amounts of dsp power to work with a laptop; ever wonder why UA only had the UAD solo cards (single dsp chip) available for expresscard for years and are only now about to release quadcard interfaces with thunderbolt for Windows? Getting a large amount of dsp power to work with laptops and many channels into DAW is no small feat and there really is'nt much technology available so one has to work with what exists. But when a company does get it to work it's more special then Desktop-compatibility since Laptops usually are far less powerfull.

I do know Kyma works with firewire and laptops but that's not as much dsp power as XITE-1 nor does it has the same level of DAW intergration (many channels being processed). UA could only get the Quadcard to work with firewire on MAC recently (and it is more limited then pcie on Windows with plugin count and requires larger buffer-sizes), UA were waiting for Thunderbolt for Windows wich meant go without a seriouse portable solution for Windows for years and even now they still have to wait till the thunderbolt technology is adopted. Being able to develope a Expresscard solution allowed Sonic Core the ability to release a large-amount-dsp portable solution long ago. Expresscard has alot more bandwidth and less latency then firewire, etc.

On a sidenote; i don't think XITE-1 is tied to any specific connection protocol since the cable and its attatched card it has can be detatched from the hardware (right now we switch from pcie connection to expresscard on demmand, i'm fairly certain another protocol like Thunderbolt can be added to a cable and switched to by the user- just a educated guess since the card and cable are detatchable from the hardware interface; looks like a future-proof attempt).

EDITED
Old 5th March 2012
  #48
Ged
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the scope platform seems very cool - but man, it's expensive!!
for that money you could get a real analog synth with midi and you'be set.
Old 6th March 2012
  #49
Mr Arkadin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged View Post
the scope platform seems very cool - but man, it's expensive!!
for that money you could get a real analog synth with midi and you'be set.
Hmmm, well you'd need a mixer, some effects, a patchbay and then you'd still only have one sound source. Not really the same is it?

The XITE-1 works out cheaper than when I bought a 21 DSP system with old Sharcs, so much less power. Now I've got my favourite system with more power, good A/Ds and it's in a rack, rather than three PCI slots.
Old 6th March 2012
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounddesigner View Post
Expresscard is the only real solution ATM for a Window's based dsp product and any O/S where VERY large bandwidth is needed. Sometimes Audio manufacturers don't have much of a choice but to work with certain protocols and hardware. Sonic Core was the only ones able to get large amounts of dsp power to work with a laptop; ever wonder why UA only had the UAD solo cards (single dsp chip) available for expresscard for years and are only now about to release quadcard interfaces with thunderbolt for Windows?
Have you seen uad satellite? 10 years old Firewire 800 that is. Seems to handle up to 4 sharcs. Came out while usb3 was already out at 5Gbits as opposed to 800Mbits. Apple doesn't seem to adopt usb3 or faster fw as they want to promote intel's thunderbolt, so uad went with fw800! to cover mac AND pc.

Pc has firewire also, it's not mac only. There is firewire 3200s (2007, 3.2Gbits) but haven't seen the market, although it uses the same port and cable, fully compatible with older s400 & 800. Even this could handle ~16 sharcs (xite d has 10), considered that satellite quad works with fw800.

I have 4x usb3 ports it's fast enough but i doubt it'll get much use, it just sits there watching the protocol wars and apple trying to establish thunderbolt (10Gbits).

Xite atm needs a pcie slot, so why not make a pcie card with 6-10 sharcs like xite d, but without 2x adat, wordclock io, z-link, AES/EBU, MIDI In/Out/Thru, and converters just to run the damn software ffs! Or else why not buy synths and converters.

They had a 6 dsp pci under 1K, stoped support (i think their latest sw doesn't run in these) and never made a pciEXPRESS, strange company. Now Creamware is gone, and sonic core and JB have taken all the development and try to make a name in the high end market.
Old 6th March 2012
  #51
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A really good way to get the Sonic Core experience is if you can find a NOAH or a NOAH EX. 2 rack space with 2 or four instrument slots, an integrated mixer, usb, killer graphic interface, digital I/O, analog in for processing, and just a very elegant piece of work. It's also a PC audio midi interface as well. If I were starting over and I weren't in love with all of these hardware synths and the tactile experience I have I would just get an XCITE 1 and call it a day. creamware noah - Google Search
Old 6th March 2012
  #52
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just fyi, I was having problems running the plugiator editor under osx 10.6.8, and the problem was due to flash incompatibility.

I downgraded to flash player 10.0.54 and everything is running smoothly now. You can get it here

Archived Flash Player versions

I think the plugiator is a steal at this price. I'm really enjoying FMagia besides the analog emus. I think this sounds very close to what a virus sounds like but with a bit more bite.
Old 6th March 2012
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audslu View Post
Have you seen uad satellite? 10 years old Firewire 800 that is. Seems to handle up to 4 sharcs. Came out while usb3 was already out at 5Gbits as opposed to 800Mbits. Apple doesn't seem to adopt usb3 or faster fw as they want to promote intel's thunderbolt, so uad went with fw800! Go figure.

Pc has firewire also, it's not mac only. There is firewire 3200s (2007, 3.2Gbits) but haven't seen the market, although it uses the same port and cable, fully compatible with older s400 & 800. Even this could handle ~16 sharcs (xite d has 10), considered that satellite quad works with fw800.

I have 4x usb3 ports it's fast enough but i doubt it'll get much use, it just sits there watching the protocol wars and apple trying to establish thunderbolt (10Gbits).

Xite atm needs a pcie slot, so why not make a pcie card with 6-10 sharcs like xite d, but without 2x adat, wordclock io, z-link, AES/EBU, MIDI In/Out/Thru, and converters just to run the damn software ffs! Or else why not buy synths and converters.

They had a 6 dsp pci under 1K, stoped support (i think their latest sw doesn't run in these) and never made a pciEXPRESS, strange company. Now Creamware is gone, and sonic core and JB have taken all the development and try to make a name in the high end market.
The UAD-2 Satellite firewire is not 10 years old it only was released about 1 year ago - 2011 Press Releases - Universal Audio

I'm aware of PC having firewire, UA avoided it cause it's too difficult to get a large quantity dsp solution to work with Firewire on PC due to the various problematic chipsets/configurations that vary more then MACs wich are made by a single company (But even tho Satellite firewire unit works with MAC it's still bandwidth limited and high latency). I do know alot of people reported problems with Powercore and Duende PC firewire units wich had much less dsp power. But even with regular interfaces on PC your told usually to use Texas-Instruments chipset cause others can be problematic even with a non-dsp interface far as system instability goes.

I could give you a link where UA critisized Firewire and it's many limitations in the past and stated why they chose PCIe/Expresscard, i just don't feel like searching for it now. But as far as UA's firewire device it was created 1-10-2011 not ten years ago. The UAD-2 Platform is only 3 and a half years old, they used the single mpact chip for almost 7 years for the UAD-1 wich had far more limitations then SHARCs (SCOPE has always used SHARCs).


RE-EDITED several times .


PS. prior to Satellite there was only a single dsp chip for expresscard for uad-1 and uad-2.
Old 6th March 2012
  #54
Booted up minimonsta, and i compared the minimax to it.

Minimax aliases WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY LESS UP HIGH. The minimax remains musical up high and minimonsta does not. So for leads, it does alias a tiny bit when compared to other VSTS which alias a lot worse. The plugiator remains musical up high and most other VSTS fail completely up high. Plugiator makes my virus look horrid when playing leads up high. Yes it aliases but way less. It is still very usable up high unlike other digital synths I have.

When I put minimosta at 96khz, it was more like the minimax in terms of aliasing, but the tone is not good up high like it is on the minimax. Still minimax wins on tone and aliasing over all.

Seems like all digital synths alias even at 192khz a little on some things like sync and other things when played up high, but man its way less than running at 44khz.

The proddy is amazing on plugiator, as is the pro 12. Minimax is great too. 305 bucks, this is a great deal. Not the end all be all, but simply the best emulations of these synths i have heard, and man i have the others too.

I like proddessy, minimax and the pro 12, the drum and bass thing delivers the Roland tb303 sound to a t as well, better than any vsts I have ever used. Big thumbs up to creamware and plugiator.

This thing smokes the arturia moog emulation, and the minimonsta, and yeah it sounds heaps better than the voyagers I have played. The big + for it is being able to make poly sounds out of it, so its so close to a model d, but its poly and the filter sounds right, the osc do not alias bad until you are super high. Even then it doesn't ruin it up high it still sounds good compared to others i have played.

Plugiator gives me great emulations and great sounds. I am very happy with it. It sounds the most analog of all the stuff I have used. The fact it stays in tune, doesn't need midi to cv and isnt buggy with key tracking drifting while cv's like the minimoog, and micromoogs were, no matter what i would use this over the original for that reason. Miding up a minimoog d with a cv box is a nightmare in a sequencing set up.
Old 6th March 2012
  #55
Ged
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin View Post
Hmmm, well you'd need a mixer, some effects, a patchbay and then you'd still only have one sound source. Not really the same is it?
.
Well not really you wouldn't need a mixer as such just a good audio interface all effects can be done ITB - no need for a patchbay.
Old 6th March 2012
  #56
Mr Arkadin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged View Post
Well not really you wouldn't need a mixer as such just a good audio interface all effects can be done ITB - no need for a patchbay.
It's a good interface too. Suddenly you're adding ITB effects, I thought you were good to go? heh

Sorry, but you're kind of missing the point of Scope.
Old 6th March 2012
  #57
Mr Arkadin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audslu View Post
They had a 6 dsp pci under 1K, stoped support (i think their latest sw doesn't run in these)
Incorrect. Sonic Core have kept backward compatibility and support on all the old cards available to all users: Scope 5.1 (latest) will run even on a Pulsar 1 and 64-bit systems. Not bad for a 12-year-old card. I was using my Pulsar2 on 5.0 up until last year until I decided to get the XITE on a nice offer.
Old 6th March 2012
  #58
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^ Ok i don't remember correct then. (@ Arkadin)

@Sounddesigner
My previous post i have edited to be more specific, still it's not 100% clear as it seems.
Firewire 800 is about 10 years old not Satellite! I say that to point out that it's old technology and offcourse band limited, especially for today's standards. I wouldn't buy fw dsp even before 5 years, that's my point. I have a uad-2 quad and poco (reduced price 400e) both pcie and very happy with both. 1 pcie slot free.

edit: I know texas instuments is the way to go i look the specs of the m/b when i upgrade. Or else you can buy separate as a pcie card.
Old 6th March 2012
  #59
Pci on new motherboards is lame, its emulated so a lot of hardware audio cards do not work, i tried to upgrade a while back and realized my lynxtwo card no longer worked, it was so depressing. Wish there was a list of new motherboards that work with PCI so uad and pci audio cards still work. Sucks.
Old 8th March 2012
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Pci on new motherboards is lame, its emulated so a lot of hardware audio cards do not work, i tried to upgrade a while back and realized my lynxtwo card no longer worked, it was so depressing. Wish there was a list of new motherboards that work with PCI so uad and pci audio cards still work. Sucks.
PCI Express replaced PCI, ISA and AGP in one fell swoop. PCI is not really emulated, but there are converters available to allow you to still utilize old cards. PCI is dead for a reason. The bandwidth available is peanuts in comparison.

here are some links for options

Home - VirtuaVia.eu - eShop
Magma | PCI Express® Expansion
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