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Why Roland doesn't start producing the TR909 again?
Old 12th December 2011
  #1
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pointsource's Avatar
 

Why Roland doesn't start producing the TR909 again?

Why Roland can't see that the TR909 is so popular and it's sound is so sought after nowadays?

With the EDM scene growing everyday around the world, and more and more people wanting to start producing it, they are missing a good market for it.

They could make a modern version of the TR909, but keeping it simple, so the price wouldn't be so high.

Please Roland, save us from the abusive used market!!!
Old 12th December 2011
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointsource View Post
Why Roland can't see that the TR909 is so popular and it's sound is so sought after nowadays?

With the EDM scene growing everyday around the world, and more and more people wanting to start producing it, they are missing a good market for it.

They could make a modern version of the TR909, but keeping it simple, so the price wouldn't be so high.

Please Roland, save us from the abusive used market!!!
>Part sourcing/unavailability.
>Expensive to produce.
>Because of this, likely expensive to buy, thus
>Lack of widespread interest (compared to say, a TV set, or something specifically for dubstep).
>The sounds may be "good," but they are far from "new."
>Not a direct re-creation as you're talking about, but their previous attempts at "re-imagining" vintage gear have been mixed
>They're roland

I'm sure someone here could go into more detail, but this topic has been beaten to death and the short answer is "It's not gonna happen."
Old 12th December 2011
  #3
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Rogue Ai's Avatar
Most likely it would be sample based, or a plugin in a box. I think there would be a higher chance that Korg would make an analog drum machine than Roland, because of the popularity of the Monotribe.
Old 12th December 2011
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
Most likely it would be sample based, or a plugin in a box.
Yes, and once it comes to that, why not just buy a nice sample pack that's been processed with outboard gear and save yourself some money/space

Quote:
I think there would be a higher chance that Korg would make an analog drum machine than Roland, because of the popularity of the Monotribe.
If such a thing were to happen, I think it would come after they turn the monotribe into a keyboard. In the mean time, things like the DSI Tempest are demonstrating the potential of analogue drums in the modern age
Old 12th December 2011
  #5
Gear Addict
Have you looked at the latest roland models?
SH digital model
Jupiter digital model

Why would we want a digital 909???
Old 12th December 2011
  #6
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xanax's Avatar
they already tried it with the grooveboxes and failed, so i wouldn't hold my breath... roland is a weird company, the 808, 909 & 303 were actually considered failures by them back in the day, fortunately that was in the analog era. i wouldn't touch anything they do today with a 6ft pole..
Old 12th December 2011
  #7
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really? this thread again?
Old 12th December 2011
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
Most likely it would be sample based, or a plugin in a box. I think there would be a higher chance that Korg would make an analog drum machine than Roland, because of the popularity of the Monotribe.
I think "the popularity of the Monotribe" makes other manufacturers more likely to jump on the new analog bandwagon. Especially if Korg bites the bullet and releases a more complete Monotribe update and it is financially successful, the other major manufacturers will want to produce something that competes.
Old 12th December 2011
  #9
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
The exact same reason they don't do anything else anybody here wants them to do. They believe in going forward, not going back, and they've identified analog as "back."
Old 12th December 2011
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
roland is a weird company, the 808, 909 & 303 were actually considered failures by them back in the day,
Because they were. Well, except possibly the 808, which you do hear a fair bit on records from the era. The 909 was a total flop and didn't come into vogue until years after it was discontinued, when no-budget house producers could pick them up for cheap.

At the time the 909 came out, nobody wanted a drum machine with synthetic drum sounds. The 80s were all about the then-novel sample playback of the Linns and DMXs, but those were very expensive. Roland, always aiming for the biggest market segment they could (as they still do today) tried to bridge the gap by creating a cheaper, hybrid machine, using samples only for the sounds which are hardest to approximate with synthesis. The market wasn't having any of it, and with the advancement of technology pushing down the cost of sample-playback, they quickly replaced with with the all-samples 707... which was quite successful, though you'd never know it today.

The 303 (and likewise, the 606) was never marketed or intended as a serious instrument. It was a simple songwriter's aid, not something they expected people to actually put on professional recordings. The classic acid sounds from it are what you get at extreme settings, and not how they envisioned it would be used. But one thing about a lot of Roland gear which I have always loved is that they often allow you to push the parameters to extremes which wouldn't initially seem musically useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pointsource View Post
They could make a modern version of the TR909, but keeping it simple, so the price wouldn't be so high.
They already tried that. "Simple" and/or "low cost" now means doing it all with samples, which nobody wants. Analog can't be done well on the cheap, no matter what the demand is.

Something a lot of people don't seem to realize when the see the rising prices of second-hand classics is that, with a few exceptions (and the 303 is one of them), the "inflated" used costs are still substantially less than what this stuff went for new back in the day.

There have been several third-party 909 recreations and emulations over the years. Seek these out or pony up for the original. Better yet, go way out on a limb and try creating some new timbres instead, and develop a unique sound all of your own.
Old 12th December 2011
  #11
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shadowfac's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
really? this thread again?
No, no, no. You see, this thread is just about the TR-909. See the difference? heh
Old 12th December 2011
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

i hope they don't start producing any of the TR series again. it would ruin the exclusive feeling i get by having a 909 sitting next to me right now.

i like holding it over the heads of people that i own a piece of music history.

in short, NA NA NA BOO BOO!
Old 12th December 2011
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Republic View Post
Analog can't be done well on the cheap, no matter what the demand is.
I don't really buy that given that you can buy 2 VCOs and a VCF from Korg for $50. Granted it doesn't have MIDI, but if it's anything like the Monotribe (which I think it is, due to the variable quantizing on the ribbon) it is already wired for MIDI and only needs $10 more in parts to implement it.

I think your statement may have been true in the past, but Korg seems to have made some new technological progress in analog mass-manufacturing which might totally change the landscape in the next few years.
Old 12th December 2011
  #14
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There's no way they could make it sound like the original now, not on a large scale at reasonable cost. A lot of parts simply are not availible anymore, and an analog drum machine with todays standard parts wouldn't sound like a 909. There are a lot of current production analog drum machines, and they don't come anywhere near the sonic depth of the 808 and 909.

Just forget about it.
Old 12th December 2011
  #15
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An area that Roland is lagging behind in and they should get into IMO is software and apps.

Companies like Korg are way ahead of them. Korg has the legacy collection and a whole bunch of cool apps for the iPad, like iMS-20, iElectribe and iKaossilator. I'm sure that new ones are on the way too. Yamaha has a few apps too, but not any softsynths yet. To be honest, I feel that there is more exciting stuff happening on devices like the iPad than in most hardware today. Big, expensive hardware workstations are boring! Apps like the AniMoog from Moog are a great example of new, innovate synths. I dare say that the AniMoog even has an organic sound quality to it, even though it's digital of course.

Roland is never going to make identical new versions of old classics, but they should make software versions of older classics like the whole entire Jupiter series, the Juno series and their classic drum boxes, like the 909 and 808 and even others like the 707, 606 and 505. They would sell craploads of software if they ever decided to release some.

If somebody wants old Roland hardware, then you should just go out and buy it used, and be prepared to pay out of your *ss for it.
Old 12th December 2011
  #16
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Same reason you wouldn't go back to your old job
Old 12th December 2011
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samples View Post

i like holding it over the heads of people that i own a piece of music history.
put some emphasis on that for you heh
Old 12th December 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
put some emphasis on that for you heh
u jelly?
Old 12th December 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBX-80 View Post
An area that Roland is lagging behind in and they should get into IMO is software and apps.

Companies like Korg are way ahead of them. Korg has the legacy collection and a whole bunch of cool apps for the iPad, like iMS-20, iElectribe and iKaossilator. I'm sure that new ones are on the way too. Yamaha has a few apps too, but not any softsynths yet. To be honest, I feel that there is more exciting stuff happening on devices like the iPad than in most hardware today. Big, expensive hardware workstations are boring! Apps like the AniMoog from Moog are a great example of new, innovate synths. I dare say that the AniMoog even has an organic sound quality to it, even though it's digital of course.

Roland is never going to make identical new versions of old classics, but they should make software versions of older classics like the whole entire Jupiter series, the Juno series and their classic drum boxes, like the 909 and 808 and even others like the 707, 606 and 505. They would sell craploads of software if they ever decided to release some.

If somebody wants old Roland hardware, then you should just go out and buy it used, and be prepared to pay out of your *ss for it.
Actually Roland owns the majority of Cakewalk.
Old 12th December 2011
  #20
Gear Nut
 

is this meta trolling
Old 12th December 2011
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samples View Post
u jelly?
sold a mint 909 years ago.

if i could take the ride and hats to a dark alley and have them get on their knees so i could shoot them in the backs of their heads at point blank range i would.

it can do some fun stuff and is fun to jam with but i don't think there are that many people out there who want one for any other reason than "it was used on every house record ever made".. though today i don't think so. most people use samples and those get processed to hell and back

plus there is jomox who satisfy a lot of people who want some kind of 909 emulation.. plus there are a million sample packs, a handful of awesome reaktor ensembles and VST emulators and the used 909 market for those who really just have to have a 909.

if someone gave me one.. i'd sell it.
Old 12th December 2011
  #22
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xanax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Republic View Post
Because they were. Well, except possibly the 808, which you do hear a fair bit on records from the era. The 909 was a total flop and didn't come into vogue until years after it was discontinued, when no-budget house producers could pick them up for cheap.

At the time the 909 came out, nobody wanted a drum machine with synthetic drum sounds. The 80s were all about the then-novel sample playback of the Linns and DMXs, but those were very expensive. Roland, always aiming for the biggest market segment they could (as they still do today) tried to bridge the gap by creating a cheaper, hybrid machine, using samples only for the sounds which are hardest to approximate with synthesis. The market wasn't having any of it, and with the advancement of technology pushing down the cost of sample-playback, they quickly replaced with with the all-samples 707... which was quite successful, though you'd never know it today.

The 303 (and likewise, the 606) was never marketed or intended as a serious instrument. It was a simple songwriter's aid, not something they expected people to actually put on professional recordings. The classic acid sounds from it are what you get at extreme settings, and not how they envisioned it would be used. But one thing about a lot of Roland gear which I have always loved is that they often allow you to push the parameters to extremes which wouldn't initially seem musically useful.
i am actually perfectly aware of the history and context of the TR/TB series (which i own btw) my point was that even back then roland were not making what the public demanded, fortunately those failures turned out to be classics...

i would love for roland to get inspired by its fellow japanese competitor korg, and go back analog as well as publish something like the korg legacy software, they did license a fairly accurate emulation of the space echo to UA so i guess it could still be possible, in the meantime there are of course many emulations both hard and soft by other companies.. but nothing can still beat the originals..
Old 12th December 2011
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
sold a mint 909 years ago.

if i could take the ride and hats to a dark alley and have them get on their knees so i could shoot them in the backs of their heads at point blank range i would.

it can do some fun stuff and is fun to jam with but i don't think there are that many people out there who want one for any other reason than "it was used on every house record ever made".. though today i don't think so. most people use samples and those get processed to hell and back

plus there is jomox who satisfy a lot of people who want some kind of 909 emulation.. plus there are a million sample packs, a handful of awesome reaktor ensembles and VST emulators and the used 909 market for those who really just have to have a 909.

if someone gave me one.. i'd sell it.

yeah, u jelly
Old 12th December 2011
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samples View Post
yeah, u jelly
of what exactly? and god.. i hate that stupid phrase 'jelly'. what are you 12?

Old 12th December 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointsource View Post
Why Roland can't see that the TR909 is so popular and it's sound is so sought after nowadays?

With the EDM scene growing everyday around the world, and more and more people wanting to start producing it, they are missing a good market for it.

They could make a modern version of the TR909, but keeping it simple, so the price wouldn't be so high.

Please Roland, save us from the abusive used market!!!
In the late 90's Rolands MD gave the reason for it as being their factory would have to be re-tooled to accommodate a new 909 and that was to expensive even if there was a large demand for them. That was then, not now as manufacturing techniques have moved on.

I think this has a lot more to do with the corporates stuck in a rut, lack of imagination, lets not do anything to rock the boat.

I totally agree we need to be saved from the horrendous second hand market. Keep in mind there are people with an obvious agenda when it comes to this.
Old 12th December 2011
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criminallysmooth View Post
I think "the popularity of the Monotribe" makes other manufacturers more likely to jump on the new analog bandwagon. Especially if Korg bites the bullet and releases a more complete Monotribe update and it is financially successful, the other major manufacturers will want to produce something that competes.
This is exactly what Im hoping for.
Old 12th December 2011
  #27
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
i am actually perfectly aware of the history and context of the TR/TB series (which i own btw) my point was that even back then roland were not making what the public demanded...
Ah, okay. I come across a lot of people who seem to think that these were hugely successful right out of the gate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
fortunately those failures turned out to be classics...
Not fortunate for Roland!
Old 12th December 2011
  #28
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verve92's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by criminallysmooth View Post
I don't really buy that given that you can buy 2 VCOs and a VCF from Korg for $50. Granted it doesn't have MIDI, but if it's anything like the Monotribe (which I think it is, due to the variable quantizing on the ribbon) it is already wired for MIDI and only needs $10 more in parts to implement it.

I think your statement may have been true in the past, but Korg seems to have made some new technological progress in analog mass-manufacturing which might totally change the landscape in the next few years.
Excellent point! I think we will see Korg have the first affordable analog mono synth and from there who knows. Moog and DSI should be sweating! Korg seems to be more progressive analog wise. Not to bash Roland as if they made crap all these years, they wouldn't be so successful in the synth market and like it or not, they are.
I just can't believe a limited synth like the 303 and 909 are so expensive as if people will quit making acid lines if they don't have one or brag like idiots if they do.
Old 12th December 2011
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verve92 View Post
Moog and DSI should be sweating! Korg seems to be more progressive analog wise.
??? wah???

the evolver isn't progressive? it's like a modular synth in a tiny box for $500. i doubt korg etc could make anything as cool as that.
Old 12th December 2011
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
??? wah???

the evolver isn't progressive? it's like a modular synth in a tiny box for $500. i doubt korg etc could make anything as cool as that.
Yeah, I'm pretty care to explain?
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