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Wavetable Deathmatch: Waldorf Microwave XTK vs Waldorf Blofeld
Old 23rd November 2011
  #61
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The XtK sure is better looking! I always thought that was a sexy looking synth.
Old 23rd November 2011 | Show parent
  #62
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acreil's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raffor View Post
Anyway, I doubt that you can recreate the PPG sounds in the dsp domain, since there is no straight AD converter anymore. Everything is oversampled and cleaned up these days that it is almost impossible to reach the sound of overtones with this technology.
Actually it's entirely possible to recreate, but only by oversampling.
Old 23rd November 2011
  #63
Deleted 0fc8128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
sure... and your whole post falls under that cathegory too, nes pas?

we look for different things (or maybe even different PPG sounds) when tryin to imitate the originals, i suppose.

as i said 2 posts back, with my XT, when goin for that ppg sonic stamp i always miss three things that i get with MW right off the bat - crap lofi DAC, real analog CEM filter with analog resonance, and saturation of the individual voice VCA when using higher osc levels and going overboard with resonance settings. none of the XT's digital filters can give me that sound. (tho i really do love XTs unique digital character for what it is, and actually use it more, but for some other things..)
The amplifier overload is a typical microwave trade sound and has nothing to do with the typical PPG sound per se.

Also, only it uses analog components doesn't make it automatically closer sounding than a dsp based approach. If I look at the specs, the prophet08 should sound like a prophet5.

Nevertheless, the microwave does sound very good, just not a perfect copy of the PPG.
Old 24th November 2011 | Show parent
  #64
Deleted 38a4a95
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OT

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusRaindrops View Post
I kind of had the same response to it and it never got any better for me. Even after digging, I was still pretty much were memristor is now, which is why my Bloaf belongs to someone else. I keep wondering if I might have liked it more if I'd had the keyboard version? I mean the interface is bad in and of itself, but without keys it really was difficult to relate to. Anyway, what's done is done. I think from now on I buy things with keys.
gave it some more hours and now i think its fairly easy, I guess am just an impatient dude, BUT some things are still odd for instance the multis are initialized with all 16 channels set to sound a001 so first thing you have to do if you want to create a multi is to switch 16 channels off one by one - srsly

also the Blofeld crashed, all of a sudden a newly selected patch turned into an init patch and the device bricked
first time in my life I ever witnessed a synth to crash
also something I find spooky is when you turn the pitch or mod wheel the LEDs on the buttons start to dim

about the KB the keyboard itself isnt bad at all quite good actually but obviously all the sounds have been designed on different keyboards so you have a modwheel which is hardly used in any patch and the velocity is different among all the patches

btw about a year ago I went to a well known shop in town they have several outlets and internet distribution and so on and I asked for a blofeld desktop
they only had one left in stock which was the demo item but it wasnt on the demo rig but hidden in a drawer on the desk cause
it was totally wrecked, all the paint and labeling hat gone off. it was so wrecked they first didnt want to show it to me and
then they said I'll get it for the factory outlet price from waldorf but I said thanks but no thanks
even the waldorf logo was worn off

sorry for the OT again
Old 24th November 2011 | Show parent
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suitandtieguy View Post
"r e t a r d e d" is censored but not "assholes"?
One is bad luck and the other's a personal choice. Like, I could choose not to complain that you didn't demo Largo too, but I won't. Seriously though, I do dig Largo(just sound-wise, the interface isn't anything special). So, should I pick up a Blofeld or paint a BCR2000 silver?

And thanks for the demo.
Old 24th November 2011 | Show parent
  #66
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Quote:
Wasnt the graininess a side effect of the process?
Yes, and what's funny is that the creators probably DIDN'T want the artifacts when they designed the PPG.

But the "Artifacts" define the synth.

I remember reading an article by Chris Meyer (The guy in charge of the Prophet VS's "conceptual" design) ages ago that discusses this in length. I found it just now:

http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/birth.txt

Interesting that they could have "fixed" the artifacts, but decided not to because they thought it sounded "cool."

Cool indeed.
Old 24th November 2011
  #67
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SCSI's Avatar
 

Very interesting

Just the other day I was talking to a friend of mine who used to own a Microwave XT, I own a Virus TI & I was wondering how the wavetable capabilities of the Virus compared to the XT.

He doesn't have the XT anymore so I'll have to find another way to compare but this at least gives me a good example of the wavetables themselves.

Thanks for posting these.
Old 25th November 2011 | Show parent
  #68
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I have a Virus B and an XT. The wavetables in the Virus B cannot be swept through smoothly, they may have changed that on later models. They are also cleaner than the XT.

You CAN make the XT clean by turning up the "quality" parameters, but I actually enjoy a little dirt on my sounds.
Old 27th November 2011 | Show parent
  #69
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suitandtieguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid360 View Post
You CAN make the XT clean by turning up the "quality" parameters, but I actually enjoy a little dirt on my sounds.
no, actually you can't.

there's a clarity to the Blofeld and a fuzziness to the XT which can not be reconciled no matter what you set the parameters to. and that is how you tell them apart.

the Blofeld was on the left and the XT was on the right. thank you all for participating in a fabulous thread.

btw, my money's on the Blofeld for getting closer to the old sound. until someone digs up a 360 and does a side-by-side with these two keyboards i covered i'm going to stick to that assumption. in the top end the old PPG stuff exceeded 500 khz sample rates. there's no way that didn't sound clear as ice, even if the interpolation between slots was discrete, it wouldn't have sounded fuzzy on a static wave.

the fuzziness in the XT is an artefact of underpowered mid-90s constant sample rate math. this is not present in the old PPG stuff, which as some posters have pointed out, used a completely different way of playing the wavetables back.
Old 27th November 2011 | Show parent
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suitandtieguy View Post
no, actually you can't.

there's a clarity to the Blofeld and a fuzziness to the XT which can not be reconciled no matter what you set the parameters to. and that is how you tell them apart.

the Blofeld was on the left and the XT was on the right. thank you all for participating in a fabulous thread.

btw, my money's on the Blofeld for getting closer to the old sound. until someone digs up a 360 and does a side-by-side with these two keyboards i covered i'm going to stick to that assumption. in the top end the old PPG stuff exceeded 500 khz sample rates. there's no way that didn't sound clear as ice, even if the interpolation between slots was discrete, it wouldn't have sounded fuzzy on a static wave.

the fuzziness in the XT is an artefact of underpowered mid-90s constant sample rate math. this is not present in the old PPG stuff, which as some posters have pointed out, used a completely different way of playing the wavetables back.

either way, i still much prefer the XT

but yes, a good thread! oscar winning thread by GS standards lately
Old 28th November 2011 | Show parent
  #71
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TitusRaindrops's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
either way, i still much prefer the XT

but yes, a good thread! oscar winning thread by GS standards lately
+1
Old 15th July 2012 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Hey man! Good seeing you around. Audios of Blo will follow soon.
Soon.. as in Duke Nukem Forever? Or have I missed a thread somewhere?


Old 15th July 2012 | Show parent
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Soon.. as in Duke Nukem Forever? Or have I missed a thread somewhere?


I don't know where to post them.

If i spam Suit's thread, he might be angry.

If i open another thread then ppl might ask for patches, but the site for sale is not ready, neither the collection is. I've made 2x128 out of 3x128 patches.

I can open a new thread, but it will be lame. "Hey hey! Hear my new Blofeld demos". Average respond:: "Who cares, bro!".

I dunno should i open the thread. I remember Depeche Mode releasing Personal Jesus 6 months before the album came out. Turned out to be good tactic.

I have some demos recorded already, thought they have a small mistake - i was listening to one of the sends, thinking i'm listening to the master, so all these demos i are a bit loud on the beat.
Old 15th July 2012
  #74
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Man, that's an awful lot of hurdles there. :P
Old 15th July 2012 | Show parent
  #75
Reading that post is like walking the minefield.

I dunno, i might just dump what i have so far in here, later tomorrow.
Old 15th July 2012
  #76
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EvilDragon's Avatar
...or you could PM me some
Old 16th July 2012 | Show parent
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Soon.. as in Duke Nukem Forever? Or have I missed a thread somewhere?


You DO know that DNF was actually released...right?
Old 16th July 2012
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kid_kozmoz View Post
You DO know that DNF was actually released...right?
We also know that no one would describe the process to get it in stores as timely either heh. It was delayed several times ver what...12 or 13 years? Besides Soon(tm) is probably locked up by Blizzard. Soon and When It's Dome are their answers to everything


Sent from my iPad HD
Old 16th July 2012 | Show parent
  #79
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kid_kozmoz View Post
You DO know that DNF was actually released...right?
...and it sucked. Yeah.
Old 23rd September 2016
  #80
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Greetings from the future!
I just found this thread, and I know the
original post was a compare/contrast of the
raw wavetables of the MWXT vs Blofeld.

I'd like to touch on some difference which really matter to me.

1) One the XTn, the filters are only available in a series configuration,
whilst on the Blofeld, you have a choice of disabled, parallel, or series.

2)Because of #1 , you will see that the XTn lacks a balance destination,
which the Blofeld has, where you can choose all Filter 1 or all Filter 2
or any combination in-between for each of the THREE (vs. XTn 2 oscillators).

3)Unisono modes. On an XTn, you have ASSIGN: Normal, Dual, and Unisono
(If dual or unisono is selected, use detune as indicated in the manual)
On a Blofeld, you have OSC Common: Unisono, OFF, Dual, 3-6, as well as unisono detune.

4)The XTn wins when it comes to more operators in the modifiers....
It has the following, which the Blofeld lacks: S&H, Ramp,Switch, abs value, lag, filter, diff)

5)The #1 key difference is that the Blofeld has Unisono V as a modulation source, and the XTn
does not. Why does this matter.....

Well, if you wanted a Wavetable with two different start positions, on the XT who would select
your common wavetable, and then adjust the start position for each of the two oscillators.

On the Blofeld, with only ONE oscillator selected, I could do the same thing, as Unisono V can be used
a a mod source, with judicious mod matrix programming, and unison v set to 2,
you could have Env3 and Unisono V select one "start position"
and Env 4 and Unisono V select a different "start position".
Old 23rd September 2016
  #81
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zerocrossing's Avatar
I didn't listen to the demos. Didn't have to. I'm one of the minorities who flat out prefer the Blofeld sound, though if someone dropped off a PPG Wave to me, I'd poop my pants. Sometimes I do like that Microwave XT grit, but not enough to own one. I did pack my MicroMonsta up with Waldorf wavetables. Lovely.
Old 23rd September 2016
  #82
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Bought a microwave 2 this month. Sound is so stunning and I pretty much leave the aliasing parameter turned up to 3 all the time.

I was advised to buy this as I write industrial and the blofeld might have been too clean, I'm very very happy.

Will be starting to run it through eurorack filters soon!
Old 23rd September 2016 | Show parent
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
r-tard is a popular word

I prefer f-tard.
Old 23rd September 2016 | Show parent
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I didn't listen to the demos. Didn't have to. I'm one of the minorities who flat out prefer the Blofeld sound, though if someone dropped off a PPG Wave to me, I'd poop my pants. Sometimes I do like that Microwave XT grit, but not enough to own one. I did pack my MicroMonsta up with Waldorf wavetables. Lovely.
Thought for sure you would have a Largo zero-x
Old 23rd September 2016
  #85
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I forgot how much I enjoy the "sqirql" and "dugugug" noises of wavetable synths.

Are there any soundsets for *any* soft synth that are filled with just these types of sounds? It might encourage me to buy it.
Old 23rd September 2016 | Show parent
  #86
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cixelsyd View Post
Thought for sure you would have a Largo zero-x
I do have Largo and PPG 3. I'll probably remove the Waldorf waves from the MicroMonsta at some point to maximize my scope, but for some reason it seemed like the thing to do.

I just remember synth shopping and coming across the XT. I played with it for quite a while... left with an Ensoniq TS-10. I still tend to lean toward a more hi-fi wavetable type of sound. Thought about an Ambika at some point, but that sound's not for me. Serum is awesome, though I've never run any of the Waldorf wavetables into it, I have put in some old Ensoniq Transwaves to approximate that sound. Codex is great too when you want something simple and fast to work in.

Yeah, I admit it. I'm addicted to wavetable synths. At one point I bought an XITE-1 just to build my own wavetable synths in it's modular environment. I got some pretty awesome stuff. One day I'll get the gumption up to buy a Fizmo.
Old 23rd September 2016 | Show parent
  #87
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John Difool's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid360 View Post
I have a Virus B and an XT. The wavetables in the Virus B cannot be swept through smoothly, they may have changed that on later models. They are also cleaner than the XT.
This is an old thread but nevertheless: Virus B don't have any wavetables so this doesn't make much sense
Old 24th September 2016
  #88
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firby's Avatar
 

Offtopic: How does the Kawaii K1 compare to these synths ? Isnt that a wavetable synth or am I mistaken ?
Old 24th September 2016 | Show parent
  #89
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drockfresh's Avatar
Why can't the new synth ever sound BETTER than the old vintage version??!!??
Old 24th September 2016 | Show parent
  #90
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kpsiegel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Why can't the new synth ever sound BETTER than the old vintage version??!!??
The Solaris has the Waldorf wavetables and I believe that it can sound pretty damn good.
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