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u-he DIVA
Old 13th November 2011
  #1
Gear Nut
 

u-he DIVA

u-he new synth "DIVA" is out for public beta now! They tried to eliminate 1-sample feedback delay problem of digital synths with this one using feedback prediction and I think the result speaks for itself (at the cost of very high CPU usage). I think it's one really worth checking out.

Check out some sounds from early beta testers here (scroll down to the large list).

KVR: u-he announces DIVA (page 52)

And go ahead and download the beta here:

KVR: u-he announces DIVA

I smiled just by listening to some of the sounds there.
Old 13th November 2011
  #2
Gear Nut
 
Machine Head's Avatar
 

I think Urs exceeds itself. Sounds incredible

Great work!
Old 13th November 2011 | Show parent
  #3
its quite good - a nice virtual package of emulations at a good price and as good as the best VA out there in native format.

Still - doesnt capture the sweet highs and weight in the lows of real analogue sadly. Punchy - but unforgiving.

Very good effort tho.

damning faint praise I know but might as well be honest.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
hoodlum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
its quite good - a nice virtual package of emulations at a good price and as good as the best VA out there in native format.

Still - doesnt capture the sweet highs and weight in the lows of real analogue sadly. Punchy - but unforgiving.

Very good effort tho.

damning faint praise I know but might as well be honest.
I bought ACE last month and it took me a really long time to get comfortable enough to where I know its nuances and where its more subtle powers and strengths lie. Does Diva hold enough/any advantages over ACE to warrant using both? Basically does it sound better enough than ACE to merit investing time in the learning curve?
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodlum View Post
I bought ACE last month and it took me a really long time to get comfortable enough to where I know its nuances and where its more subtle powers and strengths lie. Does Diva hold enough/any advantages over ACE to warrant using both? Basically does it sound better enough than ACE to merit investing time in the learning curve?
not sure havent tried ACE. try the free public beta...its a simple synth.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #6
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodlum View Post
I bought ACE last month and it took me a really long time to get comfortable enough to where I know its nuances and where its more subtle powers and strengths lie. Does Diva hold enough/any advantages over ACE to warrant using both? Basically does it sound better enough than ACE to merit investing time in the learning curve?
Personally, I never like the sound of ACE. IMO, ACE does not sound analog, but I have to say DIVA does.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
its quite good - a nice virtual package of emulations at a good price and as good as the best VA out there in native format.

Still - doesnt capture the sweet highs and weight in the lows of real analogue sadly. Punchy - but unforgiving.

Very good effort tho.

damning faint praise I know but might as well be honest.
You're right, there is a little bit weight missing in the lows but I have to say that this is the first time with a software synthesizer, that the oscillators have that analog "3d" sound (I don't know how to describe it otherwise, but if you have some analog synths I guess you might know what I mean) or less flat/"2d" sound.
I can imagine that perhaps with his next synth those little differences will be gone also.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecity View Post
the oscillators have that analog "3d" sound (I don't know how to describe it otherwise, but if you have some analog synths I guess you might know what I mean) or less flat/"2d" sound.
I can imagine that perhaps with his next synth those little differences will be gone also.
Yeah, using this synth really "glues" my mix together

j/k btw, just having fun
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 

In my studio i have Moog voyager, SE ATC-X, SE1X, Juno60, SH09..
- And i still think DIVA sounds VERY good !!!!!!! BUT very CPU hog.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #10
Yeah, it sounds good but also needs a lot of resources when used with longer envelope release times.
Because it's a beta there are also no presets. So it's more for early adopters and interested users with some interest to program also own sounds
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #11
Urs
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
Still - doesnt capture the sweet highs and weight in the lows of real analogue sadly. Punchy - but unforgiving.
It depends on which "real analogue" you have in mind, and what you mean by "weight" or "sweet". Diva is not an emulation of an OB-X, a Cwejman or a System 700, nor a psychoaccoustic pseudo-model.

The eight synths that we took for reference sound exactly like that, and no nostalgia or romanticisation will make them sound any better in direct comparison. To the contrary, some of them sound rather boxy and muffled (despite full service and recap and all), which we happily omitted to model.

We also found that some of the newer hardware replica sound way less like the originals than Diva, so I guess we're not all that wrong ;-)
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urs View Post
It depends on which "real analogue" you have in mind, and what you mean by "weight" or "sweet". Diva is not an emulation of an OB-X, a Cwejman or a System 700, nor a psychoaccoustic pseudo-model.

The eight synths that we took for reference sound exactly like that, and no nostalgia or romanticisation will make them sound any better in direct comparison. To the contrary, some of them sound rather boxy and muffled (despite full service and recap and all), which we happily omitted to model.

We also found that some of the newer hardware replica sound way less like the originals than Diva, so I guess we're not all that wrong ;-)
by weight I mean thickness in the low-mid and lows...something plugins seem to struggle with...no plugin Ive tried (and Ive tried almost all emulating including SCOPE) has got the same convincing low mid thump as a Vintage Moog for example (esp the Minimoog)...

I believe this low mid weight issue can be heard on Ingonators comparisons with his Slim Phatty example on KVR...

When I say 'sweet' Im referring to the musical and fizzing sound of the high frequencies. For example when I open the cutoff of my Moog Source to full - even tho there is a lot of HF in the Osc - it never sounds harsh - it feels musical and inspires play. ... the Minimoog has this sweetness also, as do the roland synths...it seems to be a feature of nice analogue - and a stumbling block with plugins/digital.

I read somewhere Urs was considering a muffle parameter - something to dynamically soften the highs could be good?

Maybe something could be done to very subtly regulate the dynamics of the amp/env also - as I feel its a bit unrelenting and stabbing in my ears...these analogue synths have punch - but it feels more musical. I feel with digital we need to meld the math/science with the more elusive domain of 'feel' and 'musicality' - if its possible with the resources available.

I dont want to take anything away from this clearly excellent technological achievement with Diva which looks to be a great set of vintage emulations perhaps surpassing the majority of whats out there currently. I dont know too much about code and what is possible at current sample rates and CPU.

However - I trust my ears and would like to contribute thoughts on the area in case it stimulates novel ways of getting even closer to the sound I love using a plugin. In the case of Diva - it certainly seems close in sound but some of the elusive musical character of analogue is still not there for me. For many - it is enough. Unfortunately Im now addicted to the musicality of analogue synths.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 

FWIW, i just bought a license to ACE last week, super late to the game. i think it sounds phenomenal. i'm sure DIVA will be even better.

with folks on here experiencing the sounds through such a diverse variety of listening environments, i think it's always best to demo stuff for yourself.
Old 14th November 2011
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Motion's Avatar
F...... amazing!Spectacular bit of software engineering by Urs.I can't say enough with devs pushing the envelope and would take the cpu burn any day for the authenticity whenever possible.I believe more than likely the benchmark to chase right now in comparisons with whats out there "analogue" and sets a high bar.Incredible sound and behaviour.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
its quite good - a nice virtual package of emulations at a good price and as good as the best VA out there in native format.

Still - doesnt capture the sweet highs and weight in the lows of real analogue sadly. Punchy - but unforgiving.

Very good effort tho.

damning faint praise I know but might as well be honest.
I dont agree.

It capures the heights. Depends on your monitors.

Sounds excellent!

You talk about the weight! That weight in Roland Junos is just a bass boost circuit. Use an EQ and you have that weight.
It's really that simple.

AND

When you hype the bass, you also affect the way how you perceive the heights. Hyping the bass softens the heights, thats well known.
Old 14th November 2011 | Show parent
  #16
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Solidtrax's Avatar
We were playing with this new synth today and thought let's share a little demo with the other slutz out here.

It's 100% DIVA (14 instances) and nothing more than DIVA. No EQ/FX/ETC... only a limiter on the master bus.

And the fun part is, we have not even reached 5% of its potential! Thank you u-he for this masterpiece!

Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidtrax View Post
We were playing with this new synth today and thought let's share a little demo with the other slutz out here.

It's 100% DIVA (14 instances) and nothing more than DIVA. No EQ/FX/ETC... only a limiter on the master bus.

And the fun part is, we have not even reached 5% of its potential! Thank you u-he for this masterpiece!

very nice

one thing I think would be cool on Diva is if you could pan the voices...
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Addict
 
mossie23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
its quite good - a nice virtual package of emulations at a good price and as good as the best VA out there in native format.

Still - doesnt capture the sweet highs and weight in the lows of real analogue sadly. Punchy - but unforgiving.
you've said exactly this in a few threads already and it makes me curious. do you think you could post examples of what you mean? this is not because i don't believe you, but like i said, because i'm curious.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
one thing I think would be cool on Diva is if you could pan the voices...
Thats easy.

1. in the Amplifier & Pan section, choose Voisemap for the Panmod.
2. In the "trimmers" page you can now play around with the "voice modulator map" controls to pan each voice !!
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
 
david1103's Avatar
 

i listened to all the demo .wav files.

i am afraid that this sounds no more analogue to me than any other VSTi i have heard. it still sounds 'flat' rather than '3d', that's the only way i can describe it.

maybe a totally new approach is needed, volterra kernels for VSTi? maybe we need super computers to do it?

what would a well coded analogue emulation VSTi that uses a 100% of a modern quad core sound like? would anyone bother making it as no-one would buy it.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #21
i own real analog and this sounds as analog as it gets. period.
only thing missing, is that little, very little hiss notes produce when keys are triggered. some call it 'air'. i guess it's not difficult to emulate in urs' case.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmasepsilon View Post
i own real analog and this sounds as analog as it gets. period.
only thing missing, is that little, very little hiss notes produce when keys are triggered. some call it 'air'. i guess it's not difficult to emulate in urs' case.
+1

The only difference between DIVA and my analogue synths is just because of that unpredictable hiss. Just in a couple of hours I did some presets that are astonishingly close to Juno 60. Ok, It'll be hard to emulate a TB-303 most probably (I don't mind since I have one), but this is the best softsynth I tried ever besides Madrona Labs Aalto.
Old 15th November 2011
  #23
Gear Head
 

There will always be nay-sayers no matter what you do. Anyway, I won't say it's 100% there but in any case it's pretty darn close. So much that I'm seriously considering selling some kit, I also own bunch of analogs myself. The DCO oscillator mode with OTA Ladder filter sounds very very close to my Juno-60.
Old 15th November 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
wakestyle's Avatar
very nice!

we need presets!!
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #25
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Solidtrax's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
very nice
Thanks!
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #26
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Solidtrax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
very nice!

we need presets!!
What about making patches yourself? heh
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #27
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ksandvik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidtrax View Post
What about making patches yourself? heh
Yes it's a real analogue thing as you need to build and learn things yourself :-).
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #28
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wakestyle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik View Post
Yes it's a real analogue thing as you need to build and learn things yourself :-).
heh, nah.. I'm just not into programming synths.. modifying yes
Old 16th November 2011 | Show parent
  #29
mfx
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mfx's Avatar
 

I'm still on the fence with DIVA. Had some fun and it's a grower. A little track (loop based, dont expect to much please an hour twiddling in cubase and 20 min production value. No plugins just Diva and The Glu on the buss).



It does have a nice vibe and depth, with some lush air - proper analogue emu?

Let your ears decide and have a Beta play

http://www.u-he.com/downloads/Diva338Mac.zip
http://www.u-he.com/downloads/Diva338Win.zip
Old 16th November 2011 | Show parent
  #30
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post

we need presets!!
+1.

mfx, come on, give us your presets.

heh
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