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Sampling mentality? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 18th September 2011
  #1
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Sampling mentality?

Im curious about something regarding sampling, so im throwing it out there.
Those who like to sample and sequence their bits, how do you approach things?

I mean, how do you know what fits together and not? Trial and error?

Let say i want to sample a few stabs/chords, and then later i realize their Cutoff was too high, their Envelopes wasnt right to fit with the rest of the track at all, but then its too late, im stuck.

I just cant get my head around this, im probly too OCD to even try this out. LOVE the idea however!
Old 18th September 2011
  #2
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Yoozer's Avatar
We're talking about sampling your own (analog) synths, not existing tracks, right? If so - gear with memory or without? (the latter's harder, of course).

Sampling - or for that matter, recording anything in a way that does not allow you to go back is always like that. It's an act where you commit your idea and fix it to a medium.

You could record several variations, or you could use substitution where you put say, software or a preset from a synth with memory in there for the while being until you've built up the rest of the track. Then you can go back and replace it with a sampled non-memory analog. If that's the sort of sampling you're talking about.

Or you have to get rid of your OCD about it.
Old 18th September 2011
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
I mean, how do you know what fits together and not? Trial and error?
yes, that.

and a burning desire to cram two incompatible puzzle pieces together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
Let say i want to sample a few stabs/chords, and then later i realize their Cutoff was too high, their Envelopes wasnt right to fit with the rest of the track at all, but then its too late, im stuck.
in some circles there is the rather common practice of 'dirtying' up samples, which amounts to draining the color from the samples so they are uniformly black-and-white (this is how I think of it). if you slam the master (of the sampler) with compression or reverb or EQ (or any combination of the three) even the most random and disparate assortment of samples will start to sound related (they may not sound good, but it's a start).


Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
I just cant get my head around this, im probly too OCD to even try this out. LOVE the idea however!
what do you use for a sampler?
Old 18th September 2011
  #4
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I personally have that in plan yes, sampling synths, but the question can be for all kinds of samplers really.

Sure, thats one way. Knowing myself tho, i wont go back and fix anything, so better get it as close as possible from start.

Thing is, if i would sit down and knob out a bunch of stabs, sample them, build something with it etc. Chances are they probly wouldnt sound fitting with the rest of my sounds later, as i usually have to tweak all the sounds in the mix to fit with eachother.

However, im also thinking that EQ:ing may sort these issues out? As its just some Lowpassing, cutting, that might be needed for them to fit.

Also, back in the day when Vince and the guys started out, multitracking from 1 synth, did they just wing it, or how did they approach things really.. (a whole other topic there, i know!)

Im thinking of having drums playing in the background, and making my samples to fit with them more or less, before sampling.

Waffle waffle!
Old 18th September 2011
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
yes, that.

and a burning desire to cram two incompatible puzzle pieces together.


in some circles there is the rather common practice of 'dirtying' up samples, which amounts to draining the color from the samples so they are uniformly black-and-white (this is how I think of it). if you slam the master (of the sampler) with compression or reverb or EQ (or any combination of the three) even the most random and disparate assortment of samples will start to sound related (they may not sound good, but it's a start).




what do you use for a sampler?
Ah yes, didnt think of that, slamming them all together thru a compressor or whatever. Makes sense!

Im software based, so Live's Sampler/Racks is my weapon of choice.
I can probly see the beauty of a old sampler here tho, as it would make things sounding more related thanks to its "coloring"..
Old 18th September 2011
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

just go with the flow. if it doesn't fit anymore, maybe you could delete the samples and replace them with something else. The sample might just be a start of track, but it's not necessary to still have it in the track in the end!
Old 18th September 2011
  #7
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@kdgh So true! I probly tie myself up too much to my sounds/tracks.
Old 18th September 2011
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
Im curious about something regarding sampling, so im throwing it out there.
Those who like to sample and sequence their bits, how do you approach things?

I mean, how do you know what fits together and not? Trial and error?

Let say i want to sample a few stabs/chords, and then later i realize their Cutoff was too high, their Envelopes wasnt right to fit with the rest of the track at all, but then its too late, im stuck.

I just cant get my head around this, im probly too OCD to even try this out. LOVE the idea however!
Why don't you adjust the sample using the envelopes and filters in the sampler?
Old 18th September 2011
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubtek71 View Post
Why don't you adjust the sample using the envelopes and filters in the sampler?
I thought of this, but as i wanted it as true to the org as possible, i threw away the idea before really considering it. But yea, as it would only be some minor adjustment, it wont be anything obvious anyway..

Its funny how you can get set on something and not consider the easiest options.

Thanks for setting me straight guys.
Old 18th September 2011
  #10
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
Im software based, so Live's Sampler/Racks is my weapon of choice.
As I said this is mostly a problem when you've got anything you can't recall. If you're software based there's no reason why you should not save the original audio/plugin track and disable it so you can revisit it or make multiple versions. This will completely murder your workflow, though.

Practice enough so your takes are good the first time.

Know what direction you want to go in and stick to it. 10 songs of which 9 are crap is better than 1 song of which 90% is crap; worse if it's unfinished because you keep going back to tweak stuff every time.

Quote:
I can probly see the beauty of a old sampler here tho, as it would make things sounding more related thanks to its "coloring"..
It's also going to teach you some great lessons about commitment, but a reel-to-reel would do that job even better heh
Old 19th September 2011
  #11
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Many different things that you can use a sampler for. many good samplers have great filters that you can use. But grabbing loops of other things you create, or taking complex effected sounds that you record....It's really about what you end up discovering in terms of how you use it. It's really a source of potential inspiration (among other things). Jump in.
Old 19th September 2011
  #12
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Here are two examples of sampling that impress me because I would never think to go into that direction at all:
Ex1.
The "new" work:

The sample's source:


Ex2.
The "new" work:

The sample's source:
Old 19th September 2011
  #13
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you're gonna have to call me old cause all that dubstep stuff sounds the same.. he didn't alter the sample, glitch it, gate it nothing just dropped it in. lame.
Old 20th September 2011
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
I thought of this, but as i wanted it as true to the org as possible, i threw away the idea before really considering it.
Sampling can be straightforward and true to the original, but you can also look at it like creating entirely new instruments, sounds and phrases.
Old 20th September 2011
  #15
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I thought I might love the idea too, but I didn't. Sure, I use samples all the time. The libraries that come with Kontakt, Sampletake, etc, but I've tried using my own loops and bits... and I just never took to it. To me it seems like working with Legos as opposed to clay or carving something out of marble. Some of my heroes do amazing things with samples... Mouse On Mars or Soul Coughing for example, but... It's not for me...

Or is it?

I just realized that all my music is based on samples. Long samples. I use a VST called Mobius and Ableton's Looper to record what I'm doing in real time and layer and loop it... chop it up, etc. To me that way of working is fluid and organic. Try it, it's amazing. There's even a whole "live looping" community out there of guys who use Mobius, JamMans, Digital Echoplexes... and many others. I've given up on hardware, but the software loopers controlled with a hardware MIDI pedal is amazing.

But taking a static sample from a record or bit I made... I just don't find it inspiring like working with a synth and a sequencer.
Old 20th September 2011
  #16
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Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Or is it?
gotta love a cat who adds drama to his posts.
Old 20th September 2011
  #17
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Thanks for the support and ideas, i feel eager to try this a lot more now. Especially with some new ideas in mind!

Thanks to my poor CPU im bound to sample my chords/pads etc. in some way or the other, and freezing isnt for me.

Didnt even think of using the Looper in any way other than for DJ-duties, gonna check it out deeper now.
Old 28th September 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
Thanks for the support and ideas, i feel eager to try this a lot more now. Especially with some new ideas in mind!

Thanks to my poor CPU im bound to sample my chords/pads etc. in some way or the other, and freezing isnt for me.

Didnt even think of using the Looper in any way other than for DJ-duties, gonna check it out deeper now.
A looper is a really fantastic tool. Ever since my first Digitech 8 sec foot pedal I knew it was for me. My favorites in the hardware world are the Electrix Repeater (no longer made) or the Electro Harmonix 2880. Other than those, you may as well do it ITB, if you ask me. The free Mobius runs rings around those Boss Loopstations. Hell, what you can do with the looper that comes with Live runs rings around most hardware loopers. The key is really getting them set up like you want with a midi controller like an FCB1010.
Old 28th September 2011
  #19
Oli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffensen View Post
I thought of this, but as i wanted it as true to the org as possible, i threw away the idea before really considering it. But yea, as it would only be some minor adjustment, it wont be anything obvious anyway..

Its funny how you can get set on something and not consider the easiest options.

Thanks for setting me straight guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumply View Post
Sampling can be straightforward and true to the original, but you can also look at it like creating entirely new instruments, sounds and phrases.
For me, I think the real fun of sampling is in exploring what it can do differently from the source. Samplers can have really nice synthesis features, which can do great things for the sound. I don't often use them to just reproduce a synth as originally recorded. I would generally just record a whole track if I really need that. I tend to keep my synths 'live', and use samplers as instruments in their own rights.
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