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The best college in your opinion. Dynamics Plugins
Old 18th September 2011
  #31
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Life
Old 18th September 2011
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikdrink View Post
Life
heh
Old 18th September 2011
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster View Post
I may sound very harsh on this subject but it is one I am very passionate about. When young students come to me saying they're considering taking Music Tech courses or Music Tech A-Levels I always strongly advise them not to and to find other serious qualifications that will help them. Many of the top universities in the UK do not recognise Music Tech A-Levels as going towards entry onto courses... there is a reason for this !

Beer.
You are right to a "degree" (pardon the pun). The term "Music Tech" has been distorted to mean different things to different people. And this also applies to a great many other terms in the "business", such as Producer (my major pet hate) - ask any REAL studio people and the anybody stating they're a Producer will be treated with a fair degree of scepticism. The correct term is "Electronic Music Producer"... not to be confused with a "Record Producer" - many couldn't deal with the pressure.

However, I digress. Beer, you couldn't be MORE wrong about the Uni recognition for A-level courses. They are accredited with UCAS points. Work hard (student) and get high grades, and the equivalent points are some of the HIGHEST in the sector.
Many of my students get on to courses that require 320 UCAS points the full monty).
The issue is more so that the Unis are cherry-picking the best students (and rightly so) - the Atrium (Cardiff Uni) has in excess of 2000 applicants for 32 spaces. Annually, I get 6-7 students successfully apply for it.

Because of what they know? Kind of - more so the reputation of the prior knowledge gained at A Level.


There are a lot of "Mickey Mouse" Unis, colleges and courses out there (not just in the UK), but that doesn't mean that they should all be tarred with the same brush.
There are some doing a GREAT job of supplying the Industry with worthwhile and employable graduates.
But as always, the cream rises to the top.

With reference to the degree being of no value if the graduate goes into Lecturing.... well, what a load of old twaddle. EVERY degree has some value - just obviously not to you. A degree (wishy washy or not, and this is entirely subjective) is pretty much a measure of academic ability, not necessarily ability to do the job. There are exceptions, such as medical and law (for example).
You comment also reads that lecturing is not a valid career for a graduate. That is pretty insulting and naive (unless I've misunderstood what you've said). We all have to start somewhere.

As you can see, I too am VERY passionate about this subject

Dan


Oh, and I DO show students how to coil a mic cable properly
Anybody who coils their cables like they're winding up the lawnmover flex, shouldn't be let near a studio.
Old 18th September 2011
  #34
I will add one other comment which may assist in the understanding of my stance.

We're basically discussing the virtues of being trained in a formal environment compared to picking it up off the internet (self-taught).

Whilst this works for some people (and I'm not knocking it), there are a GREAT many people who don't learn this way - they NEED to be shown.

It's a thing called Learning Styles. We all learn differently.

Therefore, a more formal environment that awards a recognition of the efforts is the obvious choice.
After all, we live in a society where our expertise is judged predominantly by our academic worth. Eg Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers all have "paperwork" to prove they know what they're doing.
Music Technology (from an Engineering/Technical perspective) is no different. Where financial transactions take place, it's amazing how customers want their purchase justified in some manner.....

However, before this gets personal, I've said my piece, and suffice to say that I will fight my case/profession with every last breath. If that involves enlightening people as to what REALLY happens as opposed to Internet myth, then fine :-)
Old 18th September 2011
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo555 View Post
We're basically discussing the virtues of being trained in a formal environment compared to picking it up off the internet (self-taught).
These are typical go-getter's. They are usually the people who will succeed in life to a greater or lesser degree because they are motivated and show initiative instead of twiddling their thumbs waiting for that big movie scoring job to fall in their lap from out of the blue. Some rely on self-study only, others will rely on both formal training and self-study. Both are valid.

Quote:
Whilst this works for some people (and I'm not knocking it), there are a GREAT many people who don't learn this way - they NEED to be shown.
These are usually the unmotivated and disinterested "learners" who only respond, albeit it unwillingly, to spoonfeeding and having things done for them. They have little motivation. They have even less initiative. They will typically not achieve much success in their chosen profession unless perhaps they are fortunate enough to have a nice cushy job reserved for them via a family member, contact, friend etc. Mommy and Daddy or perhaps The State of course foot the bill because most of these guys sure aren't going to pay....

Quote:
After all, we live in a society where our expertise is judged predominantly by our academic worth. Eg Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers all have "paperwork" to prove they know what they're doing.
Music Technology (from an Engineering/Technical perspective) is no different. Where financial transactions take place, it's amazing how customers want their purchase justified in some manner.....
It is very different.

In a semi or fully functional society when lives are on the line there cannot be a situation where there is too much room for incompetence and screwups, relying on the Laws Of Nature and Luck to determine which people live, which people are convicted (fairly or unfairly), which bridges collapse because of engineering incompetence and so forth. Hence the need and requirement for formal qualifications showing that certain minimum educational standards have been met to qualify the worker to perform their duties.

The entertainment industry is a sales business which doesn't necessarily require nor seek formal qualifications from either Academically Recognised Institutions or fly-by-night Mickey Mouse Colleges.

Market Ownership and Control, Supply & Demand and Public Taste determine which sellers succeed and which sellers fail so to some extent it's a self-regulating business (and manipulated but that's another discussion) where if you are useless or not catering to your target market you will not stay in business for a long time.

In the world of art or commercialised attempts at art and entertainment formal qualifications aren't required prerequisites in order to pursue a career, certainly not as far as "producing, mixing, songwriting" etc etc are concerned.

Obviously formal qualifications can be of benefit, particularly if those qualifications were geared towards giving the student a solid grounding and foundation in their particular field of study but many of these 5 day courses (stretched out over a couple of years in order to satisfy the maximum earning potential of Mickey Mouse College) don't provide their students with reasonable quality education or a solid technical and musical foundation. For that the student would typically have to attend a University. Most of those Uni students would have started the learning process at a young age in school, they wouldn't be dozy rank amateurs wishing to become overnight supastar produsas.

All that matters out there in the real world of music / entertainment is whether you've gotten a foot in the door somewhere, whether you can deliver and produce results, whether you've learned the skill of social networking in order to get more work etc. etc. Entertainment Industry and Media employers and contacts are not interested in the framed 5 day course diploma hanging off the wall at home. It may impress your parents but nobody else cares.........
Old 18th September 2011
  #36
Whilst a small part if your multi-quote may have some valid grounds for debate, your comments about education are simply wrong and inaccurate. But you're not alone, as a great many of the public are unaware of exactly how education actually works and the stereotypes of who studies.
Old 18th September 2011
  #37
I will however also state agreement about the 5 day courses aspect, as they are imho, a total waste of time.

What has skewed the public perception is the fact that (and I think this is VERY wrong) so many establishments have cashed in on the Music Tech title as a quick and easy way to make money.

This has given rise to inflated egos and perceptions of ability to do a technical job.

The reference to Industry/society requiring quantification is a valid one - especially when looking at specific jobs.
As part of my classes, I notify students of potential positions in various roles. Several came up which require a degree-standard education:-

1. A Forensic audio engineer - thought this was a REALLY cool job.
2. Acoustics engineer - designing rooms etc etc
3. Music Lawyer - actually one of my students is doing this.

Whilst heavily engineer-based, a "proper" Music Tech qualification will open these doors for you - especially when combined with other quals.

The employment world (especially in audio) is a terrible place at the moment (don't know about the US, but the UK is a nightmare) - so any quals go a long way to making THAT impression with a prospective employer.

The irony is that if you're a bedroom programmer/tech-head (& GearSlut!), these types of jobs may not interest you.

And this is the key-point: refer back to YOUR definition of Music Technology. Ask any 2 people, and the definition won't be the same. Therefore your training requirements and education-routes won't be either.

Doesn't make either route more valid than the other though.
Old 18th September 2011
  #38
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The proof's in the pudding. Let's compare:

Option A:
-----------

- Sound Production College X charges 10 Large (10 000) UK Pounds for their "2 year Production Diploma" and a little Noddy Badge to hang in Mom & Dad's bedroom after "graduation".

- The student attends ONE (1) class per week (what a serious and hectic schedule... so much to learn and absorb!!!!)

- The course lasts 2 years (2 years????? 1 day of "class" a week????)

- You're taught how to use gear (because you're too lame and lazy to rtfm and do basic research) and you're taught what can only be a rudimentary attempt at basic music knowledge.

How do I know it's rudimentary and what qualifies me to be so dismissive? Because I started off learning music and playing instruments in jnr school straight through to Military Orchestra and fkn University afterwards, that's how I know.

- You get to use a *bling* *sparkle* wait for it...... Mac in class .... shoo wow again

- You get to play on their gear aka studio time (let's face it, since you handed over so much dough to them you're not going to be able to afford to buy gear yourself).

- Apparently your tutors produced some pop stars, no doubt their success will rub off on you because you pay them so well.


vs

Option B:
------------

At an actual University:
--------------------------

- You're probably going to have to go to classes around 5 days a week, not ONE (1)... oh noes!!!!! Not fair! So much work and things to learn.... They're actually trying to educate me..... arghhhh.....

- You're going to receive a formal education, you're also going to be expected to take a number of non-music related subjects in addition to your formal music training.

- You graduate with a formal qualification ie, a degree. You receive high level training in the fundamentals of music itself. In addition you're exposed to gear as you would be at "the College"

- Uni Course fees in England are currently around £3300 a year although this will likely increase next year? Compare that with the £5000 you pay per year for ONE (1) day of class per week at your "College".

- You can qualify to become a music teacher, ie, University in this case provides a formal path into employment (if that were what you wanted to do)


vs

Option C:
-----------

- you're self-motivated, ambitious and have initiative
- you spend your dough on getting some basic gear
- you RTFM, you experiment, you ask around, you read and research
- you make contact with ppl who know ppl who know ppl and work on getting a foot in the door somewhere, somehow... whatever it takes
- you save your money for rent, instrument lessons, more gear
- you keep practicing, you try to get into bands, play gigs, write material, produce material for any comers
- you work your day or 1/2 day job in order to support your dream and keep plugging away

Those are the realities as I see them. Feel free to correct me on any issues which I (as an uninformed member of the public) misunderstand.

I'm not suggesting in any way that you are one of those Mickey Mouse operators but too many of these kinds of places exist and the amount of time and money they suck out of gullible people with instant stardom ambitions is criminal.
Old 18th September 2011
  #39
One final statement from me - I've un-subscribed from the thread as I feel it isn't going anywhere.

Opinions are polarised and I doubt that is going to change. The levels of hypocrisy demonstrated do somewhat undermine certain posters statements (sorry Beermaster, but if you're prepared to go on record as slagging off education in this area, then why do you give guest lectures in colleges & Unis? )

Rest assured though, I can hold my head high, comfortable in the knowledge that the people I educate and train actually get jobs in the business as opposed to keeping their passion as a hobby.

To the original poster, I wish you the very best of luck whatever route you take

BUT just to be clear, I am NOT part of the Mickey Mouse club: mine's a bona fide (2 yr) course with full industry and academic accreditation.
Old 18th September 2011
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo555 View Post
However, I digress. Beer, you couldn't be MORE wrong about the Uni recognition for A-level courses. They are accredited with UCAS points. Work hard (student) and get high grades, and the equivalent points are some of the HIGHEST in the sector.
Many of my students get on to courses that require 320 UCAS points the full monty).
The issue is more so that the Unis are cherry-picking the best students (and rightly so) - the Atrium (Cardiff Uni) has in excess of 2000 applicants for 32 spaces. Annually, I get 6-7 students successfully apply for it.
I'm sure you're right. I was just pointing out that a young student who finished shadowing with me a month ago was considering taking the A-Level Music Tech degree but found that Oxford University wouldn't recognise it for the course she was considering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo555 View Post
With reference to the degree being of no value if the graduate goes into Lecturing.... well, what a load of old twaddle.
Thats wasn't what I meant. I was suggesting that one of the more positive and readily available professions for Music Tech graduates is to tutor as a Music Tech teacher at schools or other Music Tech courses. The downside as I see it being that it creates a kind of a feedback loop where 'possibly' a limited musical knowledge is perpetuated and made the norm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo555 View Post
The levels of hypocrisy demonstrated do somewhat undermine certain posters statements (sorry Beermaster, but if you're prepared to go on record as slagging off education in this area, then why do you give guest lectures in colleges & Unis? )
The reason I occasionally lecture ( not often tho, only two or three times a year ) - is the same reason I've taken on work placements and work experience students from all backgrounds and from very differing levels of musical understanding and experience. I enjoy it and I think it's great to spread the word, share the knowledge and get people buzzed about music, I also think it's important to point students in the right directions and be realistic about their choices and futures and share experiences which is also why I never accept payment for the lectures I give.
Old 18th September 2011
  #41
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The problem here is that people think that the music business is divorced from the reality of any other business out there.

If I were to offer a hands-on two year course for $25k in the business of making and selling hand made clothes pins for drying laundry on a clothes line, you would look at me like I was insane. You would say there is almost no market for that. You would say that even if my student did succeed, they would have to leave the business for a "real job" because repaying the debt would make living on the meager profit of the business impossible. On top of that, you would say that even if my students were good enough to earn money, they would be drowned by the thousands of students that get turned out into this fantasy(and it is a _FANTASY_) job market.

Paying to work in the music business in 2010 is like spending five years learning to make buggy whips after the Model-T had been around for a decade.

Yes, theoretically, you could be Prince, Hans Zimmer, Danny Elfman or Winton Marsalis, but in reality you are going to have a 9-5 in something completely unrelated.

15 years ago:

-Musicians tracked records in real studios
-Labels had budgets for real studios
-There were fewer aspiring music professionals
-People had fewer entertainment options
-People generally believed that music was something you spent money on.

There was a revenue stream for professionals.


Now:

-People track at home for the cost of Pro-Tools
-Labels are a labor of love that break even at best
-Everybody is a producer
-You can spend your money on a million entertainment options.
-Music is free

Does this seem like an economic sector that you want to stake your future on?

The music business kind of sounds like the buggy whip business in the 1920's?

I went to high school with a surprising amount of people who went on the be successful in the entertainment business. One was considered the best drummer in the area(he plays drums for the Alkaline Trio), the other is a comedienne/singer song writer on Sub Pop, and the third is an NYC artist who gets 10-15k a painting. There are several others, but those three are the most noteworthy.

The thing these three had in common was that they were already recognized as the best by a large margin by the time they in high school. They were voted the best musician/class clown/most artistic in the school. They didn't go into their respective fields with a cold start, they already had already paid more dues than most and were recognized as outstanding in their respective fields before they left high school. The musician dropped out in 10th grade, ironically, because you don't need an education to be a musician.

My point is that unless you are already outstanding at music, don't bother spending a fortune on a music education. There are barely enough slots for people with real talent. If you are decent and you like music, spent that money on a real trade or profession that you can live with. You will have a 9-5 that can pay your rent, fix your teeth, raise your kids, pay for heart surgery, and leave you with some form of retirement.

There are worse things in the world than coming home to a decent studio and working for a couple hours after the kids are asleep. It is a lot better than being 38 and having to play music for drunk kids in order to scrape by.

IOW if you are recognized as the best, go for it. If you just like music, get a real job.

This is coming from someone who sells records and actually makes money at music. It is a nice little side business, but it is almost impossible to make a living doing what I do. 15 years ago I would be making 50k a year. Today for every two legal digital sales, I have one free download link. last release: 500 12"s sold out in a week and a half, 260 digital sales, and about 100-150 rapidshare/mediafire/whatever links via a self-google search. 70 of those DL links appeared 1st day, then a new one every 2-3 days since. The first illegal link posted literally 10 minutes after the files went on sale.

The music business is obsolete. It can employ people in synchronization, and it can employ live performers. However, all the people that were in the middle are getting slaughtered. Not everyone can do car commercials, and not everyone is big enough to play for 500-1,000 people every time they go out. The middle ground that was the indie music business has been dying for the last five years. That is where the jobs used to be.

I am not against education. I understand why you need a degree to do audio forensics for the FBI or CIA, but how many of those jobs really exist? That is what bothers me; why are these kids being given the idea that the music industry even exists anymore? It was a tiny industry even in it heyday. Steel, energy, medicine, semi-conductors, those are real industries. The music business was a drop in the bucket compared to them.

Last edited by Whatupdoe?; 18th September 2011 at 07:00 PM.. Reason: rant(now with new and improved extra rants)
Old 18th September 2011
  #42
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

A very sincere and sad truth about the world we live in today !

Sorry to hear about your material being stolen Whatupdoe.

Sadly the attitude that it's okay to use P2P sites to download not only music but DAW software is all too rife amongst many music tech colleges too - not overt but I've seen it 'accepted' behind the scenes ...which is just SO ironic given the jobs these students are hoping for at the end of it.
Old 18th September 2011
  #43
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Thanks for whatupdoe? posting something about the industry that reflects reality. I am sure there are some people on ZH who have and are still making a living in the music biz. The chances of making enough to pay your bills are probably astronomical.
Old 19th September 2011
  #44
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Now I'm even more confused that before I started the thread.

I just turned 23 so I dont feel like geting in uni for another 3 again.

So can some actually advise me, what should I do after I get my bloody audio diploma from SAE at the and of the year?

-go for degree(audio engineering) in SAE London(1 year £9k)
-go to Dubspot NYC (1 year $11k)(electronic music production)
-buy some gear and try to find a job in the post prod. biz (thats probably the least thing i want to do)
-buy gear and try to do/learn something on my own
-try to find a job as a teaboy in a studio

Thank you
-
Old 19th September 2011
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelube View Post
Now I'm even more confused that before I started the thread.

I just turned 23 so I dont feel like geting in uni for another 3 again.

So can some actually advise me, what should I do after I get my bloody audio diploma from SAE at the and of the year?

-go for degree(audio engineering) in SAE London(1 year £9k)
-go to Dubspot NYC (1 year $11k)(electronic music production)
-buy some gear and try to find a job in the post prod. biz (thats probably the least thing i want to do)
-buy gear and try to do/learn something on my own
-try to find a job as a teaboy in a studio

Thank you
-
Like others have said. If you don't know what's in the degree that'll make it worthwhile for you before you get in, you probably won't find out either after spending all the money and time with them.

So short answer no, unless you're crystal clear what's in there for you. Why not visit the school or get on the phone and talk to the department chair (not advisors)?

FWIW, I just graduated from local college w a music degree myself. I'm looking for a 4-yr music degree, but sure as hell I'm not paying for *just* an audio engineering degree - which some exception maybe an audio engineering program is closer to engineering than pressing knobs. But then I'm not looking to be an engineer myself, so YMMV.

As for what to do; Well, if you have enough money, go do whatever hell you want. Otherwise you're probably going to find a job while working music on the side. Just dont' go make babies.
Old 19th September 2011
  #46
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I didn't read this thread, because I know there's probably a fire going.

All I'll say is.

MIDDLE TENNESSEE STATE UNIVERSITY.
Done.
Old 19th September 2011
  #47
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelube View Post
Now I'm even more confused that before I started the thread.

I just turned 23 so I dont feel like geting in uni for another 3 again.

So can some actually advise me, what should I do after I get my bloody audio diploma from SAE at the and of the year?

-go for degree(audio engineering) in SAE London(1 year £9k)
-go to Dubspot NYC (1 year $11k)(electronic music production)
-buy some gear and try to find a job in the post prod. biz (thats probably the least thing i want to do)
-buy gear and try to do/learn something on my own
-try to find a job as a teaboy in a studio

Thank you
-
Well you have to ask yourself what you're enjoying and what you're good at. The course you're finishing should be pointing you in some areas of the industry so what are those areas ? ( advising you on job options should be part of the course you're on )

Don't waste your money and time on a beginners course in music or music tech..... the tech you can learn on your own by hanging round these sites and asking to around ( email me if you want to join me for a week or need advice ) - The music side will take years to get to started on if you're a novice and to be honest the chances of making a living from it are very slim unless it is your total fixation and passion.

Depending on what your course has taught you see if you can get a work placement at audio post production places... ?

Beer.
Old 19th September 2011
  #48
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i think working in the music business is about networking and making friends. I know guys that went to berklee and they are doing well just from knowing the right people and living in NYC


I think knowing how to fix gear and understanding the physics of sound is the real nitty gritty.
Old 19th September 2011
  #49
Gear Addict
 

Whatupdoe and Beermaster have it right.

Expansion in Education is either to meet industry demands or to absorb the unemployed. Music Tech and studio engineer courses are largely the latter.

I have known many people who have gone to these schools, and their knowledge is pretty rudimentary unless they were self motivated, in which cases they brought more to the table than the course offered.

Electronic music production these days can be learned in one's spare time. musicianship and music in general, takes longer. Audio Engineering seems to be an ear and ability thing, you can't teach someone to be competant if they don;t have it in them already.

I think most of these schools give the students a false sense of their knowledge and I often have seen them blather on about something they think they understand only to get it wrong and look foolish. Sure, quiz me on microphone patterns and when to use them, better to actually watch someone who knows what they're doing for free as a tea boy than to play audio engineer with pencils.

it's a waste of money, you can become a music industry lawyer by going to law school, no one is going to say where's your SAE degree. Something like that might give you an edge applying to a recording studio at the entry level, but you better bring more to the table than that, because the competition is fierce and the turn over high, they can replace you in seconds.

Anyone wasting their time with 2 year degrees isn't thinking straight anyway. 4 year bachelors degrees are the highschool diploma of our time, you need that or a real trade.
Old 19th September 2011
  #50
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I recently decided against going to one of these schools in SF for the following reasons:

-I currently have zero debt and want to keep it that way.
-The job market for audio/music professionals is obviously shrinking rapidly.
-I've already spent the past 5 years building a home studio (paid for with cash) and teaching myself how to do all the tech stuff. Don't need to pay $20K to re-learn how to load an audio clip into Live.
- I've also spent the past 5 years teaching myself music theory and how to compose. (All of this done while working 9-5).

So, the only thing that made school appealing was to make industry connections. In the end though, I decided that it wasn't worth the money just for that.

One more thing... being proficient at an instrument is important but doesn't make or break an artist in the electronic production realm. I know a lot of classically trained musicians who can play their instruments really well but have awful taste and aren't really creative. They are basically just skilled at playing other people's music, which is fine but not the same as having a viable artistic and creative vision. Having them sit down in front of Logic, Pro Tools, or Live and compose makes this apparent rather quickly. You can't teach creativity.
Old 20th September 2011
  #51
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+1

To Xander415. The sad and cruel thing that these schools do is get young people thinking they get the degree and a good job. Maybe, if they are lucky, they get a entry level job in a shrinking industry.
Old 21st April 2012
  #52
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Now this is starting to get a little amusing to me...

+1 to MTSU. One more grad here. Graduated in '05, been steadily employed in live sound (that's LIVE sound, not studio work) ever since. Now admittedly, live is the last place I originally wanted to end up, but it's consistent and pays well. Plus, yes, I have an actual degree.

But honestly if I could do it again with what I know, and with what you're planning to do?
A) Skip AES. Every AES guy I ever met, save one, eventually washed out.
B) Do you want to be an AE? Skip school, go straight to being a tea-boy (coffee-boy here in the States). You'll learn the same things they'll teach you in school. Doesn't mean you can treat it like it's not school though. Be a sponge and absorb EVERYTHING.
C) HAVE A BACK-UP. Intern at night if you can, go to Uni in the day and get a fairly employable degree that you can fall back on. Not having a wife and kids in your 20's is great, you have no bills and your only concern is yourself. Not having the ability to pay your bills, provide for your kids, and give your wife the life she wants to live in your 30's-40's? Not so much...

Other than that, best of luck, and remember the two most important things in this field are 1) a good attitude and 2) a good attitude.
Old 21st April 2012
  #53
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School of hard knocks....but it isn't for everyone... I hear Berklee is pretty good.
Old 21st April 2012
  #54
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Identify your purpose before you think about anything else. What is your objective. And certainly, just jumping through some hoops that you have been told will result in a predicable outcome might not manifest. The very nature of music (an art form) decides much. but there are many aspects of the music field which can provide success for people without a natural ability. But even the highly gifted people may very well not go anywhere without some serious hard work and an effor to acquire some technical knowledge in the area of music theory. Don't get hung up on all of that though. You decide what you want to do with your talent. VEry lucky people have made millions with it...little or no technical knowledge,, just a lot of talent and natuarl ability.. but that herd gets very thin if you enter the world of film scoring or other commercial mediums
Old 21st April 2012
  #55
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Lots of very useful advice contained in this thread. Kudos to Beermaster, asbak, Scooby, Whatupdoe and others for putting so much thought into your posts. This is one of those (rare) threads that could truly change a bloke's life!

As for my own opinion on the matter, I really don't have much to add that hasn't already been mentioned. Despite having attended a music college myself, I would fall into the camp of "don't bother" or "save your money" unless you have a very specific, realizable goal in mind. I don't mistrust Music Tech programs per se, but I do question their ability to truly prepare students for an industry which is experiencing unprecedented change due to the internet. It's really more the industry I mistrust (what's left of it, anyways).

I would only recommend a formal music education to musicians interested in classical/academic careers. Here there is still a realistic future for graduates particularly in the case of performers/instrumentalists. You cannot download the ability to play the violin! And pirates cannot (yet) clone live musicians and distribute them as torrents. And orchestra/teaching jobs still exist (though they are hard to come by). What's more, while you can certainly study with a teacher privately, you cannot replace the experience of playing, socializing and interacting with fellow students. This was what I was most thankful for at the conservatory: the musical social life! The rest I probably could have learned on my own with enough self-discipline.

But is that social life worth the price of tuition today? Hard to say....
Old 21st April 2012
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 

You can spend a lifetime learning the cello.. I mean becoming one with it.. ..that's how long it takes. But this becomes a personal achievment,, a joy. An ability to sit down and produce some sound that satisfies you, and that you know is esoteric guided by yourself. Absent of a commercial purpose or direction.
Old 21st April 2012
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
Amber_tron's Avatar
 

I'm currently doing my masters in production at Glamorgan in Cardiff after doing five years at Newcastle. I have found through myself and others the getting taught in this field is only worth it for the qualification. Everything can be learned online and in books for a minimal cost, at a much quicker pace and without idiots who join courses for 'something to do'.

I don't want to come over as being a hypocrite, but I'm only doing it for an MA after my name. Might as well do it in something I enjoy anyway.
Old 23rd April 2012
  #58
Lives for gear
 

Got a degree in music, went back this past year to another program for audio engineering. I think I saved 3-4 years of blind experimentation by having a program that teaches you what you need to know. If you are serious about learning how to make music at a professional level it might be worth it for you. It's all dependent on where you are at technically and how you like to learn.
Old 23rd April 2012
  #59
i have a bachelor degree from SAE/middlesex university in recording arts!
i would not do it again! if i could turn back time i would study on a real university like LIPA in Liverpol or University of West London.
i really would like to do a MA degree now but not because i want to have a MA degree. i run a studio since 4 years now and i have the feeling that i would maybe benefit from learning again, meet new people, new studios, new skills etc.
i tried to get an internship for that, but it seems nearly impossible.
so back to university and hopefully get some nice new contacts and new inspirations!

cheers
Old 23rd April 2012
  #60
Lives for gear
Greendale community college. I hear the have an excellent dean...
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