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Analog vs Digital...the last word Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 17th September 2011
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
In my last album I used my analog modular for most sounds, but there was a particular track that was mostly based on my Nord G2, which as many have said before, is as cold and digital as can be. In an attempt to warm up the sound a bit, I decided to run the G2 through my Electrix Filter Factory... no filtering was actually done but the preamp and some mild distortion really made a difference. Just imagine if I had a high-end preamp.
I would reccomend lowend preamp for "analogize" didgital synths
Old 17th September 2011
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disco judas View Post
If you are able to record a vocal performance or some guy playing drums
ie digitize it, does not mean you are able to synthesize it.
No convincing Elvis Presley or john lennon synthesizer exist
Precisely my point! The differences are due to the shortcomings in the synthesis of the sounds, not because of the shortcomings of the medium.

But this is good, because the synthesis models can be improved upon. Will they get there? I don't know. Will they become better? You bet'cha.
Old 17th September 2011
  #183
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shadowfac's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by disco judas View Post
I would reccomend lowend preamp for "analogize" didgital synths
Yep. That's basically what I used.
Old 17th September 2011
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
Precisely my point! The differences are due to the shortcomings in the synthesis of the sounds, not because of the shortcomings of the medium.

But this is good, because the synthesis models can be improved upon. Will they get there? I don't know. Will they become better? You bet'cha.

there is a patch for the G2 that allmost perfectly synthezsises the famous james brown funky drummer loop... with a modular system you can do such things.. even digitally... sound a bit digital of cause.. but elsewise damn close..
Old 17th September 2011
  #185
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I aswell think that the first 303 emu the propellerheads one is still the best...
The 303 squelsh and scream got exceptional well modeled in the propeller heads version. so even when the sound engine is not really close, the behaviour on the knobs is closer to the real thing than on all other clones.. the expression is closer to the real thing..

A 303 is in big parts how it reacts to the knobs.. its a solo instrument.. Its so damn sexy.. That was a thing the propeller heads knew about the machine opposite to other developers that came after them...

But its obvious that they never realized what the sequencer of the 303 is capable of and therefore they crippled it.. and everybody since has followed their example. Too bad when you copy a mistake.


With such a crippled 1 bar pattern sequencer you cant really write cool 303 lines.. a total missconception that all 303 guys do 1 bar only patterns with all 16th notes posessed. Actually thats the most boring thing you can do with a 303... pfff but the only kind of pattern wher the clones sound close.. on funky 303 lines? forget it
Old 17th September 2011
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
there is a patch for the G2 that allmost perfectly synthezsises the famous james brown funky drummer loop... with a modular system you can do such things.. even digitally... sound a bit digital of cause.. but elsewise damn close..
Do you have a link? That sounds pretty cool.
Old 17th September 2011
  #187
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threesymbol's Avatar
 

Its all the same, regardless of what you buy into, its all the same. I mean, of course they are different, but in the end great albums are great albums and the person that can hear a circuitry buzz in a song and tell you that song wouldn't be on the charts if it didn't have that buzz, is selling something!!! And even if you buy it, in the end, its all the same.

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Old 17th September 2011
  #188
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
These threads never go anywhere because they loose focus so fast and because this is akin to beating a dead horse and then burying it, then digging it back up just to beat the living daylights out of it again, taking a tea break and then going back to work on it.
lol!! Simply golden. If I was a mod I would quote that as a summary and close this thread.
Old 17th September 2011
  #189
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A vs d is a never ending story.

There equal because they both have strength and weaknesses.

Use them together to over come those weaknesses.

Digital made analog better because it can preserve the sound forever,no matter if I stem to daw or or record the master to 24/96 digital it won't cause degradation.

I'm actually working on a eq curve to make ITB rounded/less sharp,along with tape emu's.

Plus using a great analog chain going in with very little compression can come quite close to steming.

Unless you guys are using usb mics I think "we" are all hybrid?


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Old 17th September 2011
  #190
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
well nice tune, but I cannot. Some people say that the Voyager sounds more like a plugin. Might be. I mean, take a Juno 60 or Polysix, Oberheim, CS80, they have much more of a characterstic sound, don't they? You can make an analog synth sounds digital. Here in this mix, every synth sounds more or less digital to me, not in a bad sense, just very clean and doesn't have much of that analog mystification effect. This sounds analogish to me, has lots of depth:

Michael Stearns - In The Beginning... - YouTube

and this

Legowelt - Forest Conditioner (2011) - YouTube

one could argue ... BUT ... it's not only about reverbs or noise or being almost mono ...
Well, where's your post that recants your "I can always pick out any analog synth in a mix?" Evidently, you can't. Not surprising though. "Analog mystification effect?" WTF? Clearly, you're high. Put down the bong and slowly walk away from your computer.

I've got a few "analog" synths, but it's a rabbit hole that I don't go any deeper into. When I got the MoPho and Prophet '08 people told me they were digital. When I got the ATC-1, people told me it's adsr was all digital. So I guess I don't own an analog. Thank god. I'd much rather just own instruments that I can afford, like and use rather than synths that have an analog mystification effect built in. Why do those synths seem to cost the same amount as a used Honda Civic?

BTW, is there a plug-in that'll do an analog mystification effect?
Old 17th September 2011
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
Do you have a link? That sounds pretty cool.
electro-music.com :: View topic - MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: the funky drummer on a G2?
Old 18th September 2011
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
BTW, is there a plug-in that'll do an analog mystification effect?
have you listened to the tracks? Do you hear the microcosmos?
The depth of real circuitry?
Old 18th September 2011
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
have you listened to the tracks? Do you hear the microcosmos?
The depth of real circuitry?
Ok, first of all... thanks for those links... I wasn't aware of those artists.

Now, dude, with all respect but... seriously? judging audio quality from YouTube?

I mean, yes, those sounds are great but a good programmer could achieve similar results with a Nord Lead and some layering.

If you feel up to the challenge, could you guess which sounds come from analog synths and which come from digitals in this track?

http://facproductions.net/music/astr...ta_Parte_1.mp3
Old 18th September 2011
  #194
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Jupiter8 is one of the only sensible posters on this thread... poor guy
Old 18th September 2011
  #195
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I'm actually pleasantly surprised how comparatively little flaming there is in this thread.

It seems not to get mentioned often that there's a heck of a lot of people out there right now making music intentionally using digital processes because a) they sound digital and b) they can't be properly done in analogue (well not easily).

Manipulation of samples, extremely sophisticated editing and signal processing, glitchyness and grittiness are all strengths of digital systems (not to mention many others). There are modern synths whose whole purpose in life is to sound digital (like the Machinedrums for example).

It's clear that analogue does one thing and digital does another, then again with a considerable overlap. What's the big deal??
Old 19th September 2011
  #196
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Just because this dead horse can't be beaten enough...



Can this guy have the last word?
Old 19th September 2011
  #197
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someone should make a GOOD sherman filterbank emulation, that would give the guy an instant heart-attack
Old 20th September 2011
  #198
i haven't read this thread past the first post so apologies if this has already been said.

it angers me that moog said something like that because it can only lead to the dissemination of ignorance.. ie the clueless in the e.m. world happily regurgitating this crap as if it is fact.

to all those that don't know:
Quote:
The term "analogue" describes the proportional relationship between a signal and a voltage or current that represents the signal.
(wikipedia)
nothing at all to do with the BS in the OP.

edit: i think probably that mr moog must have been misquoted (not by the OP but from the source of the OP's quote).. what he says is essentially true, apart from the definition.
Old 20th September 2011
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mildheadwound View Post
Just because this dead horse can't be beaten enough...



Can this guy have the last word?
if he did i couldn't understand it.
Old 20th September 2011
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
Ok, first of all... thanks for those links... I wasn't aware of those artists.

Now, dude, with all respect but... seriously? judging audio quality from YouTube?

I mean, yes, those sounds are great but a good programmer could achieve similar results with a Nord Lead and some layering.

If you feel up to the challenge, could you guess which sounds come from analog synths and which come from digitals in this track?

http://facproductions.net/music/astr...ta_Parte_1.mp3
Ok, nice and spacey, wonderful. I would say at least the main "piano" (what kind of instrument is that?) in the beginning part sounds analog. and these high sound effects (3:52) are really analog or at least hardware (could be nordlead as well). Nordlead is also not really software sounding. The arrpegiator sound at 8:00 sounds analog. Just to name a few.

Did I choose right?
Old 20th September 2011
  #201
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Hmmm...the last word on this subject.
OK, here goes. Bear in mind that I didn't bother to read any of the posts before this one because it's always the same drivel.

NO ONE GIVES A DAMN!

A good tune is a good tune, and a good sound is a good sound.
Props to the lot of you, in whichever way you create your music...now, stop comparing your d**ks and get back to work!
Old 20th September 2011
  #202
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Thanks for listening. Here are the answers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
Ok, nice and spacey, wonderful. I would say at least the main "piano" (what kind of instrument is that?) in the beginning part sounds analog.
It's a Yamaha FS1R - IMO, the most beautiful-sounding synth ever. But digital, and to some, quite cold and sterile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
and these high sound effects (3:52) are really analog or at least hardware (could be nordlead as well). Nordlead is also not really software sounding.
That sound is either an Oberheim Matrix 6R or a Nord Lead 3. I can't remember which, but I'll confirm that later when I get home. The Nord Leads 1 & 2 are considered to be some of the "most analog souding" VA's, but the NL3 is, to some, even more polite and sterile than a softsynth (not in my book, it isn't).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
The arrpegiator sound at 8:00 sounds analog. Just to name a few.
This (and a few other parts in that section) came out from a Nintendo DS with the Korg DS-10 program. It does sound raw, but I would say the aliasing is a dead giveaway.

Thanks for taking the exercise. To me it is very difficult to determine if an analogish sound comes or not from an analog synth, especially in a mix; even the presence of aliasing may be artificially added to a real analog sound, so this "test" was by no means intended to question your judgment. Also, a lot depends on how you program and play each synth. Just because you hear some "movement" and dynamics doesn't necessarily mean it's an analog synth - that's why I love the NL3, it makes very easy to program those kind of dynamics. On the other hand, some analog synths can be programmed to sound static and sterile... even some VCO-based synths (e.g., see Voyager vs Model D).

The important thing is how you use a synth. I've never met a synth I didn't like or that I couldn't find a use for.
Old 20th September 2011
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
That sound is either an Oberheim Matrix 6R or a Nord Lead 3. I can't remember which, but I'll confirm that later when I get home. The Nord Leads 1 & 2 are considered to be some of the "most analog souding" VA's, but the NL3 is, to some, even more polite and sterile than a softsynth (not in my book, it isn't).
Well, I was wrong. I just opened the project and that sound turns out to be from the FS1R. Damn good synth.

The background noises, though, come from the Atomo Mochika, which is analog, but more of a two-trick pony. I sold it and made a decent Mochika emulator with my Nord G2.
Old 20th September 2011
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
Well, I was wrong. I just opened the project and that sound turns out to be from the FS1R. Damn good synth.

The background noises, though, come from the Atomo Mochika, which is analog, but more of a two-trick pony. I sold it and made a decent Mochika emulator with my Nord G2.
at least it all was hardware! :D

what happens if you play the FS1R at extremely high pitch?
Does it alias "as hell" or more like FM8 or no aliasing at all?

Maybe I am going to buy the FS1R if i can find one on Ebay. They are rare.
Old 21st September 2011
  #205
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Not saying analog is better for everything but it is better at doing analog LOL!
Old 8th October 2011
  #206
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Hey

Just wondering do any of you know where I can get solid information about this thread i.e. books or any URL's because I'm doing an essay on this for college.

thanks

Ethan Campbell
Old 8th October 2011
  #207
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Ethan, do a database search in your library catalogue.
Old 8th October 2011
  #208
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dhollmusik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Ethan, do a database search in your library catalogue.

Which is a rather arcane equivalent of:

Let me google that for you
Old 8th October 2011
  #209
m127b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhollmusik View Post
Yeah, right...he was actually promoting the Bob-blessed Moog Modular VST from Arturia.

Read the article, maybe you will get a better idea what his feelings are. The interviewer thought Bob Moog's comments were a dichotomy, considering the Arturia product.

I just consider it the genuine thoughts of an experienced man unpertubed by modern marketing rules of engagement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Estin View Post
that sure is a nice thought. heh
+10
Old 8th October 2011
  #210
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Quote:
Which is a rather arcane equivalent of:

Let me google that for you
haha I haven't seen that.

Not quite though Databases in libraries point to scholarly literature which isn't always as easily accessed with google.
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