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Live Techno Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 15th September 2011
  #61
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
regarding fx or not.. dub mixing is a foundation of techno..
I agree... IMO dub is the first genre to make the mixer an instrument in itself..

extreme post processing... a no-no to me.
Old 15th September 2011
  #62
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duggabax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
thanks..but you overrate it a bit.. its just another synth..its just rare but was actually long time way cheper than a sh 101 because all the techno pseudos dont really got it that its a quite similar synth just without keyboard and sequencer.. So people that have it are usually no techno pseudos.. in this regard you are right.,. but there are many non techno pseudos that dont have it because its just so rare.
There wasnt many units build. It must be one of the most rare roland synths actually.
i got your back blinky, the cmu 810 is one of my bucket list synths. I had an mc 202, totally miss the tone...I've heard tell that the cmu is like it...but more solid sounding, more bass. (also heard that it's identical, no need to call me out...)

also, if I may weigh in on this live techno thing...

1. I don't get the hate with this soman (?) dude...guy looks like he's having a good time tweaking some filters and getting the crowd worked up, if that's what he (AND THE CROWD) are into, who are we to snobbily say otherwise, naysaying others' enjoyment, crouched over our thousands-dollar setups...

2. if the quality of the music is good, I don't see anything wrong with laptop djing. this is in fact the way of the future. I've seen some wonderful performances where it's just the guy rocking out with his laptop and maybe a midi controller or mixer. I don't need to be impressed by a table full of hardware...if I cared about that I'd go see someone PLAY AN INSTRUMENT.
Old 15th September 2011
  #63
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DonPuzo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknosmoker View Post
Here's how live EDM shows are done.


And please, could you tell me what are they exactly doing? It's not sarcasm, just ignorance.
Old 15th September 2011
  #64
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Acid Hazard's Avatar
Here's a short vid of a live set my friend and i did a few years back.



No treadmill dancing, sorry =o] This is live in the sense that while there are sequences pre-sequenced, its all pattern based and switched up on the fly. Except for my 707, his 808 and the TR-505 which we used to sequence a Yamaha SU10 sampler. These were kept in write mode. I also type in sequences on the SH-101 on the fly and will alter the rhythmic triggering from the 707 on the fly.
Old 15th September 2011
  #65
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
many live sets really could be performed by the mother of the guy or the driver or any guy that gets the ableton live file in the hands and runs well without the so called performer present on stage.. the liitle filter whooo and whhaa here and there really dont makes a difference...
i was at a club last year and a buddy from way back was doing a live gig for an hour on the patio. he was using a laptop, a controller, and that's about it. he had to run to the bathroom since he'd been playing for 75 minutes (of his 60 minute gig) and asked me to watch his stuff.

he setup a big loop, but after about 3 minutes of this and him nowhere in sight, i looked at the grid controller and hit a few buttons to switch up the loop. i somehow managed to go from a groove, to a build up, to a breakdown without knowing what i was doing, i have never used that controller, messed around with Live, or could really follow what was going on with the lights on the controller.

my buddy came back and was confuse - i had somehow managed to do something with his music he'd never thought of, out of complete ignorance. so yeah, i rock a party by accident because the hard part was already done - creating the loops.
Old 15th September 2011
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
the hard part was already done - creating the loops.
by a premade loop factory?
Old 15th September 2011
  #67
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pinkerton's Avatar
 

two drum machines and a sampler keeps me too busy for handwaving **** like that. and that is an extremely bare setup.

honestly tho its techno. i could care less about a stage show. im there because of the (hopefully) raw system, public substance abuse, and fast women.
Old 15th September 2011
  #68
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
by a premade loop factory?
no, my buddy made all the patterns and what not, i just made pretty patterns on the grid controller in his absence.
Old 15th September 2011
  #69
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkerton View Post
honestly tho its techno. i could care less about a stage show. im there because of the (hopefully) raw system, public substance abuse, and fast women.
never did i go to a rave looking to get laid. of the raver chicks i dated, all of them were ****ing insane. the more you know.
Old 15th September 2011
  #70
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metrosonus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkerton View Post

honestly tho its techno. i could care less about a stage show.
you know what, I don't either. Obviously, somehow a computer and technology mystifies things to such an extent that people try to argue it into extremes about some sort of moral or ethical code about a performers responsibility to provide a good time for everyone.

But honestly, do you ever hear anyone complaining about a guy with a guitar sitting on a stool in a coffee shop? "man, all that guy did was sit there.." No, people got a cup of coffee, sat down, shut up and listened to some music.

But give the guy a keyboard or a laptop and it's all "i'm not going to pay to watch a guy just sit there..." But stick the same guy in a DJ booth and people can't empty their pockets fast enough. I dont get it...

Actually I feel somewhat jealous of the contention the audience feels in those soman videos, watching a guy whip his arm around for a 45 min set with no lights, no visuals..
Old 16th September 2011
  #71
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Metasfera's Avatar
I think whatever is happening an a stage you either like it or not regardless of decoration cost.
I nevere go to U2 conserts cause i dont like the style, but their setup is huge and costly, but i will go to small club to listen to some guy experimenting with underground techno may be with only laptop.
Old 16th September 2011
  #72
Gear Maniac
 

I don't really get that you-have-to-make-your-sh*t-on-stage-out-of-the-blue mindset. A band also rehearses songs right? Of course there's space for some freedom/jamming, but hey you got the same if you setup a cool liveset. You can make it yourself as easy as you want and be safe + boring or you try to develop a hard but playfull liveset to enjoy yourself and the audience more.

I really don't wanna see a liveact making **** out of the blue for like 2 hours. After 2 scotch the act will be stuck in a loop for sure!
Old 16th September 2011
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdgh View Post
I don't really get that you-have-to-make-your-sh*t-on-stage-out-of-the-blue mindset. A band also rehearses songs right? Of course there's space for some freedom/jamming, but hey you got the same if you setup a cool liveset. You can make it yourself as easy as you want and be safe + boring or you try to develop a hard but playfull liveset to enjoy yourself and the audience more.

I really don't wanna see a liveact making **** out of the blue for like 2 hours. After 2 scotch the act will be stuck in a loop for sure!
bands rehearse but still need to play the stuff themself.. you have your drum machines and sequences and that is not really out of the blue..you just need to play them..and to play them is in big parts to write them.. the way to a sequence is half the track.. just the ready loop a rather dead and boring thing..

as said before there are certain degrees in mastership for a techno live gig and total perfection is usually an indication for a fake and no mastership at all.. And inbetween this there is quite a bandwidth where preprogrammed repertoir can be mixed with life techno elements.. 3 notes input to a realtime sequencer and some filter mods is actualy enough for a track..when this is too much you are maybe not really qualified to be on stage.. even the harshest punk gittarist knows his 3 chords.. live performing musicians really shouldnt have a skill set below that...

And that brings us to the other big problem of the modern fake culture we live in.. Just as this would be the easiest thing in the world 2 hour play times seem to become the norm wright now...any little techno hobbyist does them with the aid of loopconstructin kits.. But how stupid is that?
Such a playtime just says fake in itself.. thats a dj set just with own tracks.how boring that can be?

We are used to hear the sonic signature of 10 different artists in 30 minutes in a dj set and than 2 hours the same guy? you need to be very brilliant to dont be boring that way.. 2 hours is a play time for international superstar bands.. for any act that dont has at least 10 real hits in the parcel thats way to long.. 1 hour in the max... for improvised real sets 40 minutes actually.. the good ol playtime of an album..

IN earlier times the liveact never was ment to go in competition with the dj set. Thats stupid..dj´s with all tracks on the market in theire box are much better suited for the long run.. and thats the art of dj ing actually ..

The live set was ment as short impacts on the floor, to boil it up and made the crowd scream.. As a classical raveact you had to made them scream in the first 2 minutes.. better quicker..therfore tracks had rave signals..And on big raves you sometimes only had 20-30 minutes playtime.. The liveacts was ment to push the party not to show off in hour long self representations of own music.

Theese days with 2 hour fake shows the acts bore the audience for 100 minutes with tool tracks to play some more hit stuff in the end to please the audience again that actually really is quite happy than and actually thinks that was a good set somehow... I see that rather as stolen time..

Thats killing the whole liveset biz in a way.. in the end consequence we will have to play other peoples tracks in our sets to compensate for that, merging dj and live set this way. All by the damage the fakes created because the bookers now expect real acts aswell to do 2 hours.. MAybe part of the evolution to the dj/liveset one man show.. I however liked the old concept to use the live sets as highlights... Somehow more natural to give the creators of the music a little space in the whole dance biz. I wonder at what point that odea got lost... Natural evolution or part of thefake culture wher the whole techno party was faked without understanding the concepts and culture behind it really?

And the audience? oh my.. like cows..the got used to get bored now.. In earlyer days a bad act or dj was able to clear the floor in no time.. Theese days the people just stay..keep on dancing..and wait since its over.. thanks to minimal people got trained that it can take a while to get exciting again ..

Anyway.. we should change the terms.. liveacts are with hardware and real playing.. dj´s are with records/Cd and laptops and play music of other people.. And the new cattegory Ego-J sets.. laptop yokey only plays own tracks.. when he/she has enough good ones that xcan be a good thing too..but probably rather rare..

Any better ideas how to call the ego-j sets? In any case we need a new term and make this known to mark that ongoing practice. Fake sets sounds too negative, you cant go to a booker and offer a fake set...
Old 16th September 2011
  #74
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rasseru's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by metrosonus View Post
you know what, I don't either.

me three.


I dont care if its a premade CD or whatever, as long as the music is amazing.

Im going to hear music and dance. everything else (and I mean everything) is secondary to those things
Old 16th September 2011
  #75
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suitandtieguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
*stuff*
DJs simply cannot compete with a real live act. i don't care how good they are. especially when the live guy has no laptop in sight and the DJ is using Serato.

the major exception to this are those BS clubs all about pretty people under 30 and VIP bottle service. then of course any deviation from sidechain house will not be tolerated.


but then again, who really wants to be at a place like that anyway?
Old 16th September 2011
  #76
Gear Nut
 

well live sets with laptops aint hat bad as long the music is good
i dont think many people would like listening to tracks sequenced in realtime, i dont really get it, yeah it cool with drums, but synths, come on, if im a listenner i like the music, not how its played, ofcourse im not talking about arranged shows, which are not cool, but anyway djs with traktor are doing the same thing and only twidlling few knobs and they're not even playing their own tracks..
so a guy with his own loops > than dj with not his tracks ..
but as i said it has got to be something different everytime, let it be arranging of clips, or synth sounds, then its okay with me.
Old 16th September 2011
  #77
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boreg's Avatar
As for making everything on the spot (in context of electronic music), The Bays are probably closest to that ideal .
To quote the video: live, unrehearsed, completely improvised and totally unrepeatable.
Old 16th September 2011
  #78
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metrosonus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suitandtieguy View Post
DJs simply cannot compete with a real live act. i don't care how good they are. especially when the live guy has no laptop in sight and the DJ is using Serato.

the major exception to this are those BS clubs all about pretty people under 30 and VIP bottle service. then of course any deviation from sidechain house will not be tolerated.

but then again, who really wants to be at a place like that anyway?
and you're a perfect example of that. Autechre has been criticized for a lack of energy on stage and in interviews they've said they were more concerned with playing than caring about how someone feels about them not jumping up all around. and that's why you're there right? to see someone play and perform their craft live.

back in 2000'ish I played a few shows to about 80 people that was nothing more than mixed down tracks on my minidisk player and then me playing live on my XP30. of course, the guy right before me used all acid loops off of a CD and faked it on a few unplugged in keyboards.

when i played, everyone stood there looking at me the whole set and the whole time I was thinking "this sucks, this sucks, everyone hates it". but turns out at the end i got a bigger applause than the other guy and I sold about 40 CDs that night.

And it's from experiences I've had like that I draw most of my opinions. When your'e actually performing, people will know. the other guy spent his whole time jumping up and down, then leaning over a keyboard pretending to play a riff real quick and on and on.. me? i was adjusting the mixer, changing patches with a foot pedal, I even goofed up here and there. it's all part of the experience when you watch someone work.

IMO, visuals, lights, go go dancers, they can enhance the show. But they aren't the show. if you respect a guy and his craft enough to buy a ticket, just seeing him should be good enough. everything else is bonus.
Old 16th September 2011
  #79
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metrosonus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
by a premade loop factory?
I think that breaking YOUR OWN music down into loops for live mixing and remixing is a legit way to work. Some people differ in opinion on that one, but I think it's fine. Put your APC40 off to the side and let people see you work by not hiding behind a laptop.

But to me, this is where the "integrity" bit comes in. Passing off premade loops as if they were your own and taking a band name rather than a Dj name is pretty weak in my opinion. Sadly it happens all the time and people have to invent wacky costumes and stage getups to hide the fact that they aren't really playing and don't know jack **** about it either.
Old 16th September 2011
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrosonus View Post
. and that's why you're there right? to see someone play and perform their craft live.

Thats actually one of the missconceptions that happened when techo fellt back from its futuristics state end of the 80´s to early 90´s into a pre techno poprock attitude.. the time where dj´s became the new stars in the vacuum the absense of visual musican had created..

In the beginning the star was the party itself.. the rave.. the warehouse party.. whatever.. people wanted to support that party.. also musicans that made records for that scene..
to be played by dj´s nobody really realized..
People was much to busy with what was going on elsewise than watching the guy in the corner with the record decks.. with teh dj cult stages came back.. and live acts of people that had actual dancefloor burners to give them the chance to set the floor on fire themself. To make the people dance..not to show theire craft like on a rocknroll stage, not mch to see actually on a electronic set. And theese live acts was actually extras..entertaining interruption inbetween longer dj sets.

So its maybe valid to have some stupid show during the live act time for the entertainment.. but you can engage some dancers than.. or an own lite show..visuals..whatever contributes to the party..

so maybe the soman guy somehow contributes with his arm ups and playback techno.. when he is not up there for 2 hours i think its ok..

But he cant expect to get props in musican circles for that really .
Real playing can create a certain magic that can contribute to a party much better than the funny clown show and is better sport to keep the wages up.

To just play your own tracks playback and get excited about that actually qualifies as a form of wanking.
While really attempting to ride the thing is rather... ähhh .. working!
Old 16th September 2011
  #81
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metrosonus's Avatar
 

as far as I'm concerned, i'd rather be the guy off in the corner that only a few tech heads or the curious would notice. I'd rather people be dancing and enjoying themselves. heh

The problem is though, at least in the greater US and for me locally, players and performers don't get much of a chance to actually play except at smaller, local gigs and festivals where almost by default, you're stuck on a stage like a regular band. and it's partly my opinion that this is where most of the negativity comes from.

One or two guys that hauled their equipment down to a gig in their own car can't be expected to put on a show like the big DJ fronted festivals. If it's not that, people say "then give us the punk rock angle". And I say that's kinda hard when you're watching a mixer and 4 different sequencers.

But then someone, somewhere will say 'you could have at least sprung for a midget " lol.

But seriously, it's also weird that it's mainly on producer and tech forums that people seem to get wound up about it. Me, suit and quite a few people over @ livepa.org have had some pretty positive experiences just playing. I'm not sure what the difference is though.
Old 16th September 2011
  #82
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Metasfera's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Not really Techno...but my vote for live electronic show of the last couple of years...

Completely agree. This is The Performance.
Old 17th September 2011
  #83
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metasfera View Post
Completely agree. This is The Performance.
that was damn near a mouse head...
Old 17th September 2011
  #84
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3 pages and not one damn video posted of a truly "live techno" by 3phase's definition. Create everything live, nothing is pre-recorded and no two performances are the same.

Can't be done? Or just really ****ing hard?
Old 17th September 2011
  #85
Gear Maniac
 

KiNK told in an interview he does some parts live out of the blue. Don't know if it's caught on film (yet).
Old 17th September 2011
  #86
Gear Head
 

Would this then fulfill the requirements?



"TECHNICAL DIRECTORS is a liveact which comes from the dark alleys of Turku. It's something unique when it comes to playing in front of a live audience. Everytime the whole set is played 110% live, totally improvised, no background tapes or previously recorded sections will be used. The sound is generated mainly from the original Roland X0X-series drum machines and synthesizers and the main instruments are legendary TR-909's, which are programmed in front of a live audience. The gearlist is something awesome and is widely operational to create every sound necessary. This will guarantee you a fresh, improvised, pounding and ass-shaking technoset everytime!"
Old 18th September 2011
  #87
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jbuonacc's Avatar
ok, here you go...

can't say that i stuck to what i said, but i think it gets the point across. i loaded up some RZ-1 samples (see below), and found them to be completely un-inspiring. no regrets selling that thing, i'll tell you that. so, i edited them quite a bit and started playing around. most are easily identifiable, except for the crash cymbal which was pitched down and reversed (this sound is the first you hear and runs throughout the track). it's a mix of real-time step record and pattern mute mode. straight from the stereo outs of the MD-UW, through my mixer, to the soundcard. one take, though i did practice some beforehand as it's been a while since i've used the MD...

(seems like the kick disappeared a bit on my laptop speakers, should sound ok through monitors.)

*** one very good thing did come of this... i've always hated loading samples to the MD, the C6 software always gives me a hard time. after trying three times to get the samples transferred with no luck, i figured i should probably check to see if they have a new version for download on the Elektron site. turns out that the one i've been using is from 2006 and it's been updated several times since then. got that running and everything went perfectly smooth. this makes me feel very good about the MD-UW again, and with the +Drive for extra storage it's even better.
Attached Files

rz1_tech_(256_mp3).mp3 (8.53 MB, 212 views)

Old 18th September 2011
  #88
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laikenf's Avatar
 

Here's a little jam session I had last night. The monotribe is the man on this one (got it a week ago and HAVE NOT STOPPED PLAYING WITH IT). I transitioned from one sequence to another by holding everything on a loop with the KP3 while I dialed in the next sequence I would play on the 'tribe. Mistakes are easily masked with effects and delays heh. The video may be a little long, and things start to get more interesting like at around 3:30, but I tried to trim as much as I could without loosing the essence (it was almost 40 minutes of continuous playback- WAAAY TO LONG). It's always possible to improvise while playing live music no matter the genre.
Old 19th September 2011
  #89
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
3 pages and not one damn video posted of a truly "live techno" by 3phase's definition. Create everything live, nothing is pre-recorded and no two performances are the same.

Can't be done? Or just really ****ing hard?
i couldn't find any videos of Prototype 909 - chime in here Taylor - much of that was improve and it was killer.
Old 19th September 2011
  #90
Gear Maniac
 
suitandtieguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
i couldn't find any videos of Prototype 909 - chime in here Taylor - much of that was improve and it was killer.
totally. the one Prototype 909 live recording i have is excellent.

it's not Prototype 909, and it's not improv, but here's some Hardfloor on MTV Europe:



edit: here's a video of Prototype 909 at a party in 1996. it's short, but man it looks like a good time.

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