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Live Techno Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 14th September 2011
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
any clown can spend money at Guitar Center and come home with a Mopho, but you have to know what a CMU-810 is for starters...

it's not a common gear ***** desire - everyone wants the 101 or MS-20, but who says "damn, that CMU-810 is badass, i gotta have one" other than someone who really knows about it.
thanks..but you overrate it a bit.. its just another synth..its just rare but was actually long time way cheper than a sh 101 because all the techno pseudos dont really got it that its a quite similar synth just without keyboard and sequencer.. So people that have it are usually no techno pseudos.. in this regard you are right.,. but there are many non techno pseudos that dont have it because its just so rare.
There wasnt many units build. It must be one of the most rare roland synths actually.
Old 14th September 2011
  #32
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
thanks..but you overrate it a bit.. its just another synth..its just rare but was actually long time way cheper than a sh 101 because all the techno pseudos dont really got it that its a quite similar synth just without keyboard and sequencer.. So people that have it are usually no techno pseudos.. in this regard you are right.,. but there are many non techno pseudos that dont have it because its just so rare.
There wasnt many units build. It must be one of the most rare roland synths actually.
i am quite familiar with the CMU-810.
Old 14th September 2011
  #33
Gear Addict
 

theres nothing more boring than watching a guy moving his hands while he puts play on his laptop for 3 hours.

like this moron. just look at 1:40 come onnn!


I prefer shows where there is more than watching a guy moving his hands..
like.




And that SOMAN is just shameful, no imagination at all. I cant believe people find that entretaining
Old 14th September 2011
  #34
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
... here is some Blinky 909 live last night rocking a 606 and RZ-1

http://asciibaron.dyndns.org/three_oscar/the_boxer.mp3
you've been doing this for the past 20 years, have a load of expensive gear, and this is what you're making?

Old 14th September 2011
  #35
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gremlin moon's Avatar
 

I was trying to find the Rabbit in the Moon video where Bunny chainsaws a bucket off of some kids head lol. I couldn't find it though. . .But who can forget this guy?
Old 14th September 2011
  #36
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dhollmusik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
you've been doing this for the past 20 years, have a load of expensive gear, and this is what you're making?

Ouch...you're right, that is beginner-level stuff. Or as my detractors in my first few gigs liked to call it...Pretend-Techno

Blinky, I'm sure you've got some kick-ass techno productions out there...let's have ya!

If not, then join our Techno Teasers thread and let's all get back on it:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...no-teaser.html


I'm way overdue showing the forum some decent beats...will bump that thread soon.


EDIT: just listening to my opening teaser in that thread and it's really not much better than Blinky's effort...let this be the kick in the wotsits we needed

The world needs better techno
Old 14th September 2011
  #37
Gear Head
 

The most LIVE live techno there is ... definately elektro guzzi from vienna!

awesome band, awesome sounds!

Elektro Guzzi live vienna 2010 - YouTube
Elektro Guzzi - Sonar 2010 - YouTube
roBOt Festival - Elektroguzzi on Vimeo


Elektro Guzzi
Old 14th September 2011
  #38
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
you've been doing this for the past 20 years, have a load of expensive gear, and this is what you're making?

judging a whole life's work by a beat track with 2 drum machines?

why so harsh?
where's your "output" ?
You seem to really dig into people yet you hide.

btw - I respect you.
Old 14th September 2011
  #39
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
you've been doing this for the past 20 years, have a load of expensive gear, and this is what you're making?

ok, walk into your studio, turn the power on, clear all the banks on your TR 606 and RZ-1, hit record and then start your sequencer and let's see what you get in exactly 4 minutes.

my point was that was completely live, written in real time, as i was recording. the essence of "live" - no rehersal, no attempt to add effects, raw and full of risk.

4 minutes from the minute you walk in until you hit stop - let's see what you got.
Old 14th September 2011
  #40
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
judging a whole life's work by a beat track with 2 drum machines?
just wait until i add some RX-5, 909, and a dubstep wobble. then all the haterz gonna hate.
Old 14th September 2011
  #41
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blinky909's Avatar
it has been longer than 4 minutes - jbounacc, where are your super fly fresh live beats?
Old 14th September 2011
  #42
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
judging a whole life's work by a beat track with 2 drum machines?

why so harsh?
where's your "output" ?
You seem to really dig into people yet you hide.

btw - I respect you.
yep, that was a bit harsh. i know he's done better than that, but based on that clip you wouldn't know it. but... no EQ, mixed badly, and lame beats. if that's supposed to be an example of "live techno" then he just failed miserably. i know it's just a simple example of two machines from scratch, but hell, at least mix/EQ them a bit before recording.

as for my output, i unfortunately fall into the same rut as Blinky has talked about himself. lately i just screw around and rarely record or even save what i'm working on. i have been in a techno mood for the past few weeks though, so maybe i'll post soon to the thread that was mentioned.

i do dig into people, but i'm not so sure that i 'hide' afterwards (?). also, i've never really felt that someone has to better something before they can criticize it. however, i do think i can do better than the posted clip, so...


Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
ok, walk into your studio, turn the power on, clear all the banks on your TR 606 and RZ-1, hit record and then start your sequencer and let's see what you get in exactly 4 minutes.

my point was that was completely live, written in real time, as i was recording. the essence of "live" - no rehersal, no attempt to add effects, raw and full of risk.

4 minutes from the minute you walk in until you hit stop - let's see what you got.
well, i never owned a 606 (unfortunately) and i sold off my RZ-1 years ago, so you'll just have to settle for samples of those machines on my MD-UW. no fx is ok, but i would never put up something that wasn't EQ'd and mixed to my liking. i will try to be true to the actual machines though - ie no EQing sounds individually for the 606. the RZ-1 has individual outs for this, but i'm guessing you didn't use them here?

i hate loading samples into the Machinedrum, so i can't promise it'll be tonight.

anyway, "raw and full of risk" doesn't matter much if the end result is sub-par, does it?
Old 15th September 2011
  #43
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
anyway, "raw and full of risk" doesn't matter much if the end result is sub-par, does it?
the person i'm trying to please is myself and my audience left the show smiling.

in case you haven't figured it out, i'm the intended audience.

one day you might understand.
Old 15th September 2011
  #44
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhollmusik View Post
The world needs better techno
i believe it starts with this guy

Old 15th September 2011
  #45
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laikenf's Avatar
 

Electronic performers are constantly faced with the challenge of providing an entertaining live show, even more often so than your average rock musician (be it soloist or band oriented). But there are a couple of things that I always try to keep in mind, if your music is good and well performed, the audience will follow. I emphasize on the word performance because this is even more important than the music itself (to some degree) when it comes to a live show, and unfortunately a lot of electronic performers are guilty of taking the easy route when the time comes to put up a live act.

We can blame that on the nature of the way said music is created to begin with; most of us are soloist who have to deliver layers upon layers of electronic instrumentation in one track alone, for that reason alone it's easy to understand our reliance on sequencers and DWAs on a live environment, and that is exactly where drawing the line gets a little difficult, because as one senior member pointed out in another similar thread, it can easily just devolve into a plain karaoke situation.
Old 15th September 2011
  #46
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
the person i'm trying to please is myself and my audience left the show smiling.

in case you haven't figured it out, i'm the intended audience.

one day you might understand.


well, then raise your standards, and learn to mix. you'll be smiling even more.
Old 15th September 2011
  #47
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post


well, then raise your standards, and learn to mix. you'll be smiling even more.
i would love to learn to mix, when can you come over and show me how it's done?
Old 15th September 2011
  #48
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
i would love to learn to mix, when can you come over and show me how it's done?
how does tomorrow at 6pm sound?

actually, maybe you'd be better off starting another thread for that purpose. maybe title it something like "i have all this gear, but i can't get my levels and EQ right. help!"

heh
Old 15th September 2011
  #49
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tvsky's Avatar
at the end of the day unless you have 10 guys playing every single note by hand electronic music is never really live . everything beyond that point is a compromise

however props go to LEL for being pretty live , bar triggered samples . but its a style that lets them incorporate traditional instruments . much harder to play nosebleed techno on a guitar





Old 15th September 2011
  #50
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i do dig into people, but i'm not so sure that i 'hide' afterwards (?). also, i've never really felt that someone has to better something before they can criticize it. however, i do think i can do better than the posted clip, so...
by hide I just mean no easily accessible tracks.

No big, once again we see eye to eye .. I guess if your remark was more funny (and even more critical) I wouldn't have mentioned anything
Old 15th September 2011
  #51
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sftd's Avatar
 

Hey guys can I hop in on the 4 minute challenge thing?

What's the exact rules? No prerecorded data or audio at all right? But I can lay out the processing and gain-stage pre-start right?

And I'm guessing we are doing video only to prove the time limit and such, if so, it doesn't have to be from the camera mic right?

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 15th September 2011
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvsky View Post
at the end of the day unless you have 10 guys playing every single note by hand electronic music is never really live . everything beyond that point is a compromise

i wouldnt say so.. what are sequencers for when you have to play any note by hand.. thats not the concept of electronic music. But there is a big difference between a playback show, that gives the so called artist plenty of time to spasm around a bit, and live produced electronic music, where tracks or at least remixes of tracks are happening live on stage and just in that moment..
Nobody has heard that version before the gig.. and when the gig wasnt recorded nobody will ever hear that version again.. thats live electronic music.
And its totaly ok to use sequencers and loopers live on stage aslong you at least arrange => conduct the stuff live..
Of cause even better when you write some of it live. You can do it in the studio..why not on stage?

And its also not forbidden to touch a real instrument or keyboard during a presentation of live music.. however in electronic music terms not mandatory..
It just has to be creative, means something gets created on stage in a direct feedback to the situation and audience. That needs moe control tahn a start stop button and a filter fx..

To which amount a live show is a virgin new creation or contains preproduced elements might vary.. and 100% free improvised is a rather hard sport..
Even instrumental bands dont really compose their songs live on stage..thats a stunt nobody really can expect from a live act.. even jazzers have theire standards.. but they do improvise aswell in big parts...
And techno and jazz are related..everything is allowed

You owe the audience that you take a risk when you play live otherwise its not live.

There are way to many acts that do a plain 0% of real creation on stage and most of them do plain 0% of own musical ideas. The guy in the first video has obviously more time than any dj to spasm around..
So a waste of bandwidth.
Bookers should select better.
Old 15th September 2011
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
ok, walk into your studio, turn the power on, clear all the banks on your TR 606 and RZ-1, hit record and then start your sequencer and let's see what you get in exactly 4 minutes.

my point was that was completely live, written in real time, as i was recording. the essence of "live" - no rehersal, no attempt to add effects, raw and full of risk.

4 minutes from the minute you walk in until you hit stop - let's see what you got.
on stage that might work out perfectly .. after a while you might need to touch the keyboard to dial in a litlle sequence on top.. just beat dont gives enough for the soul..just keeps the body moving...

by now people got used to be fed with playback shows and actually loose interest in live sets

Once i did a reaktor only gig.. i was all the time very busy with the laptop and a guy came close and asked..why do you act so busy ..its anyway playback, dont pretend... i was pissed off and stepped back from the laptop holding my hands up... beat running.. just nothing happening anymore.. things got boring.. than i touched the laptop again and played a little sequence on the computer keyboard.. the audience got that and gave some screaming..and the idiot disappeard quickly... however.. with so many fake acts how can you blame somebody that thinks that you anyway do playback as soon you appear with a laptop.
People really dont expect you to play live anymore and even try to start conversations with you while you are performing the stunt to rewirte your 303 in realtime or playing solo stuff on the keyboard...
Old 15th September 2011
  #54
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blinky909's Avatar
i have always tried to capture a moment in time in my studio rather than engineer a track into creation. the muse is there for a brief period and i try to record that emotion, that groove, that mindspace. my eventual goal is to record everything and then come back and do a mixdown of the tracked bits to recreate that miondspace. if i can do that, than i feel my music is honest.

i was playing out live in my first few months, so that's how i've always thought - that i owed the audience something. lately, that audience is just me.
Old 15th September 2011
  #55
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sftd's Avatar
 

Seriously guys, let's me, blinky, and jbuonacc (and whoever else!) have a four minute completely live game-o-muzaks!

I play live a TON so it will give me a chance to show off all my mind-numbing setup preperation!

I think it will be super fun, and not only that it's a good way for folks like blinky who are much more spontaneous/live orientated to show off their side of the specialization spectrum!

It can be anyone else too, but we need to lay down some guidelines/rules first.

What do you guys think of the suggestions rule wise I posted earlier?
Old 15th September 2011
  #56
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dhollmusik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
Seriously guys, let's me, blinky, and jbuonacc (and whoever else!) have a four minute completely live game-o-muzaks!
Make a new thread for it so everyone gets a chance to have a go


I'm up for it, my only suggestion (same as sftd) would be:

- video so it's a live progression...including any mistakes (but audio is properly recorded)


4 minutes, eh? Hehe...you guys do realise I'm gonna kick all yr arses with my RS7000...and I'll be starting with no sequences at all...right from scratch.


Someone make the thread
Old 15th September 2011
  #57
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
What's the exact rules? No prerecorded data or audio at all right? But I can lay out the processing and gain-stage pre-start right?

And I'm guessing we are doing video only to prove the time limit and such, if so, it doesn't have to be from the camera mic right?
well, i think you should set your levels first, that's what a soundcheck is for. Blinky says no fx/processing (for whatever reason, i guess it makes it more 'live' or something?), so that's out.

all i'll be doing is an approximation of what he did, a from scratch programming jam using sounds from two drum machines that feature no real-time control beyond the level of the individual drum sounds.

trying to compose a tune in real-time is a bit beyond what i'm capable of (i'm honestly not much of a musician in the traditional sense), at least in the way i'm understanding you. i also don't subscribe to 3phase's belief that live techno needs to be composed/performed on the spot. i see nothing wrong with pre-sequenced material, as long as you're arranging it live. i see how that could work, but i don't think it's necessary. like he said, if you're actually doing something and it reverts to a repetitive loop if you step away, it's live enough for me.

EDIT: i don't think that video is an option for me, never done one before. my phone might be able to capture video, but i'm not about to try figuring it out. sorry. i think it'll be obvious from the recording that i'm starting with a blank slate and building from there.
Old 15th September 2011
  #58
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sftd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
well, i think you should set your levels first, that's what a soundcheck is for. Blinky says no fx/processing (for whatever reason, i guess it makes it more 'live' or something?), so that's out.

all i'll be doing is an approximation of what he did, a from scratch programming jam using sounds from two drum machines that feature no real-time control beyond the level of the individual drum sounds.

trying to compose a tune in real-time is a bit beyond what i'm capable of (i'm honestly not much of a musician in the traditional sense), at least in the way i'm understanding you. i also don't subscribe to 3phase's belief that live techno needs to be composed/performed on the spot. i see nothing wrong with pre-sequenced material, as long as you're arranging it live. i see how that could work, but i don't think it's necessary. like he said, if you're actually doing something and it reverts to a repetitive loop if you step away, it's live enough for me.

EDIT: i don't think that video is an option for me, never done one before. my phone might be able to capture video, but i'm not about to try figuring it out. sorry. i think it'll be obvious from the recording that i'm starting with a blank slate and building from there.
Oh don't get me wrong, I adore meticulous/tedious production in the context of a studio, and following that, my live sets are essentially at their most simple core a (rather immense) collection of loops. These loops obviously are pulled from my original works, but have been segmented and in many cases modified to better fit the live environment. Obviously all manner of live FX and buffer manipulation is also occurring, but it's still just processing "playback". I also try my absolute best, time constraints considered, to modify the base set "vibe" slightly for each event.

I love improvisation in all of it's forms and it was the defining factor in all the tedium that went into figuring out my setup. I also wanted to maintain the already "mastered" sound of the recordings (to compete in DJ saturated environements sonically) while not having to dedicate the processing power and subsequent risk involved in running the processing used live. The answer to this was fairly simple, use the mastered material in the most creative way possible to maintain the highest level of improvisation (given the restrictions at this point) possible. There is clearly another choice, which is bring to bring hardware for the task of that particular area of processing. Guess what, all of the hardware I use while at home for that application is not leaving my house, and sure as **** isn't going to lugged around in real world event conditions.

But, in the end it's just creative playback, still playback.

Here's the cool part though: I don't give a ****.

I'm not afraid to put on full display everything I do. I have played an instrument for 18 years, and am extraordinarily comfortable with it. I don't feel a need to compensate in some way and not use loops of my own material live. I literally have zero desire to prove anything, I am only concerned with moving people. If a hundred people are there, and five enjoyed it, I've still, while very poorly, done my job. I don't follow or adhere to any code or alignment of opinion other than attempting to kick ass. Given all those freedoms, I can focus on making a kick ass song with any and every tool I choose to have available to me regardless of the makeup of the tool itself.


Now that I've told my life story I just want to test myself to see if I could, should I ever want to, do something in the manner being described in the posts leading up to this one, and I also want to see how those who are more specialized in it like Blinky and I think perhaps Dholl? go about doing their thing. I'm on your "side" philosophically though!
Old 15th September 2011
  #59
Gear Guru
you guys are nuts... do a 15 minute techno hotmix on two decks and I'll be impressed..

My suggestion is to get a cheap old MTX mixer... only way to play Spastik!! (please don't play Spastik)

btw - in techno, musicianship will get you nowhere... unless your instrument of choice is a mixer... on that note, the no-effects rule is total bull**** to me.

good luck!
Old 15th September 2011
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
. i also don't subscribe to 3phase's belief that live techno needs to be composed/performed on the spot..
i dont say that it needs to be composed on the spot..but i say that its only truly live when it is composed on the spot.. when it just emerges in the moment you do it. ANd wit a music such a simple structured thats really not such a big deal for 20 minutes or so. than it gets difficult..at least for a single person.
However thats a tough sport and not really necessary aslong it makes a significant difference wether you are on stage or not.. many live sets really could be performed by the mother of the guy or the driver or any guy that gets the ableton live file in the hands and runs well without the so called performer present on stage.. the liitle filter whooo and whhaa here and there really dont makes a difference...

regarding fx or not.. dub mixing is a foundation of techno.. i wouldnt do live things without fx.. to exclude them is like going hiking but forbid the use of shoes...

a different thing on synth sound design competitions.. there fx are too cheap tricks.. but on stage we need any cheap trick we can get when we really do it live and not just pretend to..and when its just for the breaks or transitions.. preprogramed breaks are stupid ... the point where every fake live set falls apart for me..its to stupid watching the guys waving theire arms while the computer performs the breaks and transitions for them...
but acttually a difficult thing to perform with an all hardware setup and free improvisation..therefore real live sets often have little moments of silence between tracks.. just natural ... fx help to cover the gaps
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