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just bought monitors that only go down to 56Hz Studio Monitors
Old 14th September 2011
  #61
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i once had westlake bbsm 10.. they were huge 2 people necessary to carry one of them.. and they just did 50 hz.. however real 50 hz...

most small monitors claim low frequency ranges they cant really deliver in soundpressure.. So small monitor below 50 hz? not possible really..

You have to learn how to control the lowend . I usually watch the speakers on my ns 10..that tells a lot because the have a closed housing without reflex holes..

With the subwoofers..can be usefull.. but dont mix with them.. you need them switchable from your listening position and in ideal with an own level control..

the mix has to work without the sub perfectly..and when you dial it in you can see on the amount you can dial it in wher you are at at the real lows.. when the room swimms away on half of your calibrated level you have to much.. when you can turn it fully up and it still sounds like music you have to less..
Old 14th September 2011
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
i once had westlake bbsm 10.. they were huge 2 people necessary to carry one of them.. and they just did 50 hz.. however real 50 hz...

most small monitors claim low frequency ranges they cant really deliver in soundpressure.. So small monitor below 50 hz? not possible really..

You have to learn how to control the lowend . I usually watch the speakers on my ns 10..that tells a lot because the have a closed housing without reflex holes..

With the subwoofers..can be usefull.. but dont mix with them.. you need them switchable from your listening position and in ideal with an own level control..

the mix has to work without the sub perfectly..and when you dial it in you can see on the amount you can dial it in wher you are at at the real lows.. when the room swimms away on half of your calibrated level you have to much.. when you can turn it fully up and it still sounds like music you have to less..
yeh not getting a sub. I'm looking into krk rokits 8 inch which claim to have a frequency range of 45Hz - 20kHz (+/- 1.5 dB)
Old 14th September 2011
  #63
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I have a pair of Adam A3X. They go down to 60Hz (I actually made a test to hear this). I check the subs on my AKG 240. Then, twice a year when I get home I test my mixes on my pair of Event ASP8.

In all honesty, the last octave for the subs can be easily manageable using headphones and decent monitors, if bigger woofers aren't an option.

Also, my advice, avoid KRK.
Old 14th September 2011
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
I have a pair of Adam A3X. They go down to 60Hz (I actually made a test to hear this). I check the subs on my AKG 240. Then, twice a year when I get home I test my mixes on my pair of Event ASP8.

In all honesty, the last octave for the subs can be easily manageable using headphones and decent monitors, if bigger woofers aren't an option.

Also, my advice, avoid KRK.
avoid them why? whats really swaying me towards them is the fact that they specialise in monitors unlike say yamaha or alesis who make other equipment. krk only make monitors + headphones.
Old 14th September 2011
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realist22 View Post
avoid them why? whats really swaying me towards them is the fact that they specialise in monitors unlike say yamaha or alesis who make other equipment. krk only make monitors + headphones.
That's probably not the best reason to be swayed.

Honda makes outstanding cars and trucks but they still make an awesome lawnmower.

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Old 14th September 2011
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realist22 View Post
avoid them why? whats really swaying me towards them is the fact that they specialise in monitors unlike say yamaha or alesis who make other equipment. krk only make monitors + headphones.
i know more people that recomend to avoid adams than i know people that suggest to avoid krk´s..

depends a bit on the music i would say.. for club related stuff krk´s for jingles and ringtones adams
Old 14th September 2011
  #67
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I said that I would personally avoid them. That is my opinion. Why? I tested some monitors when I got the Adams and KRKs were one of those. Sounded really harsh with annoying mids.
Old 14th September 2011
  #68
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3phase is right on this one.

I actually went from KRK Rokit 6s to VXT8s to Yamaha HS80 and finally have ended up with Adam A7x.

The Adams are definitely only going to work well though if you're making ringtone type stuff as 3phase mentioned.

I actually had a buddy come over and I tried to explain that to him and he was so bilgerant to the fact that he thought you COULD use them for club music that I actually had to show him first hand you simply could not. I switched the monitor control over to the Adams and put on an older Underworld track and sure enough, just as I had told them, the Adams wouldn't play it.

And I'm talking silence, they didn't let out any audio whatsoever!

After that I connected my phone to them and had him call me. Boom, played the ringtone just fine.

He owed me a big "I told you so" needless to say!

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Old 14th September 2011
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
3phase is right on this one.

I actually went from KRK Rokit 6s to VXT8s to Yamaha HS80 and finally have ended up with Adam A7x.

The Adams are definitely only going to work well though if you're making ringtone type stuff as 3phase mentioned.

I actually had a buddy come over and I tried to explain that to him and he was so bilgerant to the fact that he thought you COULD use them for club music that I actually had to show him first hand you simply could not. I switched the monitor control over to the Adams and put on an older Underworld track and sure enough, just as I had told them, the Adams wouldn't play it.

And I'm talking silence, they didn't let out any audio whatsoever!

After that I connected my phone to them and had him call me. Boom, played the ringtone just fine.

He owed me a big "I told you so" needless to say!

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i have no idea what you're talking about. the a7xs can only do what?
Old 14th September 2011
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realist22 View Post
i have no idea what you're talking about. the a7xs can only do what?
I was confirming what 3phase said when he observed that they couldn't be used for club music, only ringtones and jingles.

Though admittedly I haven't tested a jingle on them firsthand, but I have confirmed the club/ringtone aspect.

If you do a little looking on Adam's website, you'll notice they incorporate a DSP system into their entire lineup that detects the type of music that is attempting to be played through them and subsequently either allows it or doesn't. Club styles of music are unfortunately on the blacklist.
Old 14th September 2011
  #71
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Club music sounds just fine on the Adams and I think it's easy to mix. But that's just me.

To cut it short, I just think, from my limited experience, that the KRK are less clear, more harsh and more midrangey.
Old 14th September 2011
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
I was confirming what 3phase said when he observed that they couldn't be used for club music, only ringtones and jingles.

Though admittedly I haven't tested a jingle on them firsthand, but I have confirmed the club/ringtone aspect.

If you do a little looking on Adam's website, you'll notice they incorporate a DSP system into their entire lineup that detects the type of music that is attempting to be played through them and subsequently either allows it or doesn't. Club styles of music are unfortunately on the blacklist.
i find this hard to believe, and i can't find it on the website
Old 14th September 2011
  #73
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I'm sorry, it's because I was joking.

I didn't actually contribute to the thread other than listing my sequence of ownership. So for the forum's sake I apologize.

(I have the A7x's and I love them in non-overly-obvious joking land.)
Old 14th September 2011
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
I said that I would personally avoid them. That is my opinion. Why? I tested some monitors when I got the Adams and KRKs were one of those. Sounded really harsh with annoying mids.
problem with adams is that even annoying mids and highs sound nice and silky and that dont really helps for music that is supposed to be played on monster pa systems
Old 14th September 2011
  #75
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Well then, I guess annoying mids and highs that sound nice and silky on the Adams must sound silky on the Events as well, because when I checked my mixes I couldn't find anything annoying or harsh.

But hey, don't listen to me, I'm maybe an isolated case that got lucky and has to different pairs of monitors to check stuff on.

Just go to a good shop that has a pretty balanced and isolated room so you can switch between them and see if you like them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
problem with adams is that even annoying mids and highs sound nice and silky and that dont really helps for music that is supposed to be played on monster pa systems
On that day I tested all the Adams they had (A3X to A8X), some Focals, some Dynaudio, some KRK. The KRK sounded like ****. The Focals sounded the best IMHO, crispier highs. The Dynaudio and the Adams were on the same level. Food for thought.
Old 14th September 2011
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
Well then, I guess annoying mids and highs that sound nice and silky on the Adams must sound silky on the Events as well, because when I checked my mixes I couldn't find anything annoying or harsh.

But hey, don't listen to me, I'm maybe an isolated case that got lucky and has to different pairs of monitors to check stuff on.

Just go to a good shop that has a pretty balanced and isolated room so you can switch between them and see if you like them.




On that day I tested all the Adams they had (A3X to A8X), some Focals, some Dynaudio, some KRK. The KRK sounded like ****. The Focals sounded the best IMHO, crispier highs. The Dynaudio and the Adams were on the same level. Food for thought.

Dynaudio are actually better studio monitors than adams.. some people say dynaudio sounds like ****.. however you dont buy studio monitors as you buy hifi speakers.. thats actually total bull**** ..its not about which one sound best..its about which one tells the truth..and which one leads to the best mix.. so you actually dont test studio monitors with perfect sounding productions.. you better test with material that contains known errors.. mono files ..you would be surprised what event opals make out of mono fles.. they qualify as ash trays but not as studio monitors.. and in ideal you do a testmix on them.. in any case there needs a mixing desk be connected to the monitors.. So avoid shops that sell studio monitors without a desk in the room.. when you by studio monotrs you need to know ho a half db change on a eq translates..there are monitors out there that really only show differences when you do 2 db changes in certain areas. you dont like to mix on one of them. In ideal the monitor shows the slightest 0,5 db adjustments over the entire frequency range.. but in reality that dont works in the lows anymore for all smaller monitors.. And a mono file is just in the middle.. and equing a mono file stays in the middle.. Its actually absolutly pointless to judge about studiomonitors without an EQ and a mono button in the signal chain.
Old 14th September 2011
  #77
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Well, I do agree with some of the things you said; however, at the end of the day I know my Adams really well, I know how they translate and I learnt how to use them, which I think is better in the long run.
Old 14th September 2011
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augsy View Post
If you spent $400 on the alesis speakers, and your willing to spend another $200 on the sub, thats $600. For $100 more you could get the yamahas.

Your audio interface and your monitors are the most important part of the studio, I would spend what you can on those.
Wrong...your room is the most important part.
Crap room and it doesn't matter what soundcard or speakers you use.
Old 14th September 2011
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
Wrong...your room is the most important part.
Crap room and it doesn't matter what soundcard or speakers you use.

well without a sound card and speakers you have no noise.... I didnt know that it was possible to produce a record with just a grand in room treatment.
Old 14th September 2011
  #80
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if your room isn't treated it's not going to matter much if your monitors go down to 10hz, cause the room is going to **** up the frequency response by huge amounts—in my room i get plus or minus 30 decibel peaks and dips in the low frequencies. you can't make very objective mixing decisions..
Old 14th September 2011
  #81
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Bass accuracy is more important than reproducing sub frequencies.

Most of those small speakers that sound big (eg KRK Rockit) are using a bass reflex port to give the impression of a bigger kick, when in fact it's mostly just a bump at 80Hz. You can check sub frequencies on headphones or even use spectrum analysis, if your room is not properly treated and speakers not positioned properly then the subs will never be accurate anyway.

The bump at 80Hz comes at a price, and that is accuracy in the low mids, which I would argue is much more critical for mixing and it often gets congested. I'm taking 150-250Hz. From a mastering perspective, this is the most common problem I hear with mixes is build up in the low mids, and getting this area right separates the ammatures from the pros. The sub is easily fixed in your mix by using a HPF on either the bass or kick, or changing their level, most speakers even with a 60Hz roll off will do this. You don't want much energy below 50Hz anyway. The low mids are another story, and to get this right you need accuracy in a monitor speaker.

So, IMO, you a better off with something like a Dynaudio BM5 that is accurate across the range than a KRK V8 that sounds like a disco in your bedroom. A good 6" driver is plenty for most rooms.

I monitor on the Duntech Sovereigns which are pretty close to flat from 15Hz-25kHz, but still check everything on a 5" auratone in mono. If the bass is right it will still sound punchy on that.
Old 14th September 2011
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realist22 View Post
yeh not getting a sub. I'm looking into krk rokits 8 inch which claim to have a frequency range of 45Hz - 20kHz (+/- 1.5 dB)
Stop obsessing over specs - even if they're accurate and measured in the same way, that few Hz isn't going to make much difference in your room. How did you choose the Alesis - did you listen to them or buy them on specs? Listen to them for a few days see whether you're OK with them. Treat the room - that'll make more difference.
Old 14th September 2011
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augsy View Post
If you spent $400 on the alesis speakers, and your willing to spend another $200 on the sub, thats $600. For $100 more you could get the yamahas.

Your audio interface and your monitors are the most important part of the studio, I would spend what you can on those.

and the room you put them in?
Old 15th September 2011
  #84
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here's my 2c.

I have previously had Event 20/20's with 8" drivers that went down reasonably low. 50-20kHz +-2db.

I moved from them to Dynaudio BM6 with 6" drivers. 43-20kHz +-3db. These had more bass from a smaller driver and were radically more revealing. Before buying the Dyns i tested out equivalent priced Adam, Genelec, Yamaha, Emes and Mackie. For me, Dyns were the best...soft domes over metal/ribbon tweeters every day for me i realised.

Anyways, after a few years on them i had some tracks mastered for release. I was told that i had too much bass in my tracks. I have a reasonable amount of bass traps and treatment, so it was probably a combination of the monitors, the placement and the room. I do tend to like to feel the bass when producing, but i dont like to monitor too loudly...so i would push up the faders on my bass tracks till sounded how i wanted it to...which i was then told be a reliable source "the mastering engineer" that it was too much.

So this is how i solved the problem...
I upgraded to a pair of PMC DB1's, tiny speakers with 5" drivers, and added an Adam sub7 subwoofer. I used the earlier tracks that the mastering engineer had mastered as reference tracks. I played these tracks back in my studio and then adjusted the sub till it sounded like how i enjoy listening to it. Then i did a few mixes and sent it to the ME to get his feedback and that had solved the problem.

So basically using the sub gave me the ability to fine tune the level of bass in my room without effecting the level of bass being recorded. I like this flexibility and think it works better than having just the nearfields. I have a foot pedal and turn the sub on and off to suit the time of day and what im working on.

Im happier with a sub than without one, but i dont think a $200 sub or $400 pair of monitors would give as good a result. If there's one thing ive experienced it is that the more expensive the speakers the better they are [obviously given everything else is equal. and YES i do have room treatment :P]
Old 15th September 2011
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiele View Post
and the room you put them in?
yes thats up there as well.
Old 15th September 2011
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
Well, I do agree with some of the things you said; however, at the end of the day I know my Adams really well, I know how they translate and I learnt how to use them, which I think is better in the long run.
they are no total crap like the event opals, actually quality wise good .. for my taste just too pollishing on the sound.. like hifi speakers..

But sure..when you have learned how your monitor translates you can achive good results with any one as long its precise enough.
Old 15th September 2011
  #87
tHis thrEad is redonkulous....


This is why people slag GS, people
Old 15th September 2011
  #88
Registered User
 

i understand room treatment is important which will happen soon. now i just need to find some good monitors.
Old 15th September 2011
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
Bass accuracy is more important than reproducing sub frequencies.

Most of those small speakers that sound big (eg KRK Rockit) are using a bass reflex port to give the impression of a bigger kick, when in fact it's mostly just a bump at 80Hz. You can check sub frequencies on headphones or even use spectrum analysis, if your room is not properly treated and speakers not positioned properly then the subs will never be accurate anyway.

The bump at 80Hz comes at a price, and that is accuracy in the low mids, which I would argue is much more critical for mixing and it often gets congested. I'm taking 150-250Hz. From a mastering perspective, this is the most common problem I hear with mixes is build up in the low mids, and getting this area right separates the ammatures from the pros. The sub is easily fixed in your mix by using a HPF on either the bass or kick, or changing their level, most speakers even with a 60Hz roll off will do this. You don't want much energy below 50Hz anyway. The low mids are another story, and to get this right you need accuracy in a monitor speaker.

So, IMO, you a better off with something like a Dynaudio BM5 that is accurate across the range than a KRK V8 that sounds like a disco in your bedroom. A good 6" driver is plenty for most rooms.

I monitor on the Duntech Sovereigns which are pretty close to flat from 15Hz-25kHz, but still check everything on a 5" auratone in mono. If the bass is right it will still sound punchy on that.
interesting. was unaware of this. so it affects the low mids hey, thats not good.
Old 15th September 2011
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
Bass accuracy is more important than reproducing sub frequencies.

Most of those small speakers that sound big (eg KRK Rockit) are using a bass reflex port to give the impression of a bigger kick, when in fact it's mostly just a bump at 80Hz. You can check sub frequencies on headphones or even use spectrum analysis, if your room is not properly treated and speakers not positioned properly then the subs will never be accurate anyway.

The bump at 80Hz comes at a price, and that is accuracy in the low mids, which I would argue is much more critical for mixing and it often gets congested. I'm taking 150-250Hz. From a mastering perspective, this is the most common problem I hear with mixes is build up in the low mids, and getting this area right separates the ammatures from the pros. The sub is easily fixed in your mix by using a HPF on either the bass or kick, or changing their level, most speakers even with a 60Hz roll off will do this. You don't want much energy below 50Hz anyway. The low mids are another story, and to get this right you need accuracy in a monitor speaker.

So, IMO, you a better off with something like a Dynaudio BM5 that is accurate across the range than a KRK V8 that sounds like a disco in your bedroom. A good 6" driver is plenty for most rooms.

I monitor on the Duntech Sovereigns which are pretty close to flat from 15Hz-25kHz, but still check everything on a 5" auratone in mono. If the bass is right it will still sound punchy on that.

man how much did those speakers set you back lol those are niiiice.
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