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Pop Dance Mic's Condenser Microphones
Old 11th September 2011
  #1
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Schwarzwald's Avatar
Pop Dance Mic's

Thinking about bringing in some session vocalist for all those cheesey one-liner vocals you hear in alot of songs. ("GAGA FEVER" comes to mind as one of the cream of the crops, lol)

What's a good all around mic that's going to accomodate a wide range of female vocalist in less than stellar recording conditions. (Minimal acoustic treatment, some treatment, but not what you'd fine in a pro booth)

Now I say wide range, but I'm pretty only going to be looking for the run of the mill Katy Perry/Britney Spears types or the soulful Adele types, so its not that big of a range, but every voice is different. (supposedly...:P)

Anyway, just asking
Talked to a rep at GC, he recommended the Sm7 due to its ability to accomodate many different vocal types. Something about its dynamics being more forgiving than a condenser mic.

He also recommended the Sterling 51. I also know of the MXL 990 and AT2020 Being favorites. (Dare I say the Behringer C2 pops up alot as well.)
Old 11th September 2011
  #2
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morphtec's Avatar
If you REALLY care about rejection look at this thread:
Microphone with lots of rejection?

Everything else comes down to personal taste and everyone will just recommend their favorite ...

Britney uses a Manley Cardiod and I think I read somewhere that Adele used a u47 ... but I don't think that Adeles voice would suffer from a 251 or U67 or whatever.
Old 11th September 2011
  #3
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If you're untreated grab the sm7, make sure your interface pres or outboard has enough gain to push it, and be done.

I love a lot of cheap stuff (huge Behringer fan) but the only love that MXL 990 gets is from the hobo who collects from the trash can for scrap metal. I can find at least one notable attribute in almost every piece of gear I've ever touched, but that 990 is not one of them. I think its true unabashed garbage if you have ever heard any other non $15 mic in the world.

The Behringer mic lineup even at its lowest point is leagues above that poor 990. Heck even every other MXL offering, even those cheaper than it are better. I have had two MXL mics I liked quite a bit at the time I owned them but I knew that 990 was garbage (for my subjective opinion) from the first second it was in my hands.

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Old 12th September 2011
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphtec View Post
If you REALLY care about rejection look at this thread:
Microphone with lots of rejection?

Everything else comes down to personal taste and everyone will just recommend their favorite ...

Britney uses a Manley Cardiod and I think I read somewhere that Adele used a u47 ... but I don't think that Adeles voice would suffer from a 251 or U67 or whatever.
Rejection wasn't a super big deal. The room has corner traps and some wall traps, and the mic'll be infront of a reflection filter. However, some mics simply tend to really pick up the room more than others, so I was insisting that those mics not be mentioned.

I'll take a look at that Manley, the u47/67 are going to my my #2's right under that sm7b. I took a look at them at GC, however, the guy told me I could find much more bang for buck, so I waited on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
If you're untreated grab the sm7, make sure your interface pres or outboard has enough gain to push it, and be done.

I love a lot of cheap stuff (huge Behringer fan) but the only love that MXL 990 gets is from the hobo who collects from the trash can for scrap metal. I can find at least one notable attribute in almost every piece of gear I've ever touched, but that 990 is not one of them. I think its true unabashed garbage if you have ever heard any other non $15 mic in the world.

The Behringer mic lineup even at its lowest point is leagues above that poor 990. Heck even every other MXL offering, even those cheaper than it are better. I have had two MXL mics I liked quite a bit at the time I owned them but I knew that 990 was garbage (for my subjective opinion) from the first second it was in my hands.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
that's a +1 for the sm7, I see the Behringers mentioned alot. Have you ever used them in an untreated room? If so, do you have any recordings of them being used in an untreated room?
Old 12th September 2011
  #5
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morphtec's Avatar
u47 and u67 are second on your list under the Shure SM7B? Thats interesting to say the least ... :-) So budget isn't an issue I guess?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
Rejection wasn't a super big deal. The room has corner traps and some wall traps, and the mic'll be infront of a reflection filter. However, some mics simply tend to really pick up the room more than others, so I was insisting that those mics not be mentioned.

I'll take a look at that Manley, the u47/67 are going to my my #2's right under that sm7b. I took a look at them at GC, however, the guy told me I could find much more bang for buck, so I waited on them.



that's a +1 for the sm7, I see the Behringers mentioned alot. Have you ever used them in an untreated room? If so, do you have any recordings of them being used in an untreated room?
Old 12th September 2011
  #6
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

U47 level mics

If you really are serious about getting a U47 or U67, then we have lots to discuss (to help you out).

First, what's your price range, most decent condition U47s will go for around $10k.

If you see one for much cheaper than that, RUN away. It'll be a dead capsule or some other horror and if you want to fic it up, the guys who could REALLY do it are the few who are making THE great U47s today, like the Wunder CM-7.

Now, if you want to go new, but a true U-47 build, the Wunder is the way to go. It basically IS a new 47. He took painstaking time sourcing and even retooling parts to get that built.

Then there's Lawson and some others... in all of the high-end clones, stick to THEIR high-end.

IF YOU JUST PASSED OUT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T REALIZE THE EXPENSE...

I'd suggest THE best bang fo the buck is Dave Pearlman's TM-1 (U47). Handbuilt, fantastic and somehow, affordable (good guy to work with too, he'll twak your capsule to fit your needs!)

Anyway... when you get into that level mic, it's worth reading, reading and discussing... then shooting out.

-andrews

P.S. At this level purchase, STAY AWAY from G.C., those monkeys have NO idea what they're talking about. Seriously. They'll sell you some big-looking mic and tell you it's a u47 all day long!
Old 12th September 2011
  #7
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morphtec's Avatar
...

Last edited by morphtec; 12th September 2011 at 01:58 AM.. Reason: who cares ....
Old 12th September 2011
  #8
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Schwarzwald's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphtec View Post
u47 and u67 are second on your list under the Shure SM7B? Thats interesting to say the least ... :-) So budget isn't an issue I guess?
I just realized that it wasn't.
Which is kind of a weird thing for me.
Spent the last 2 years saving for mics, just hit me that I'm finally getting to buy them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
If you really are serious about getting a U47 or U67, then we have lots to discuss (to help you out).

First, what's your price range, most decent condition U47s will go for around $10k.

If you see one for much cheaper than that, RUN away. It'll be a dead capsule or some other horror and if you want to fic it up, the guys who could REALLY do it are the few who are making THE great U47s today, like the Wunder CM-7.

Now, if you want to go new, but a true U-47 build, the Wunder is the way to go. It basically IS a new 47. He took painstaking time sourcing and even retooling parts to get that built.

Then there's Lawson and some others... in all of the high-end clones, stick to THEIR high-end.

IF YOU JUST PASSED OUT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T REALIZE THE EXPENSE...

I'd suggest THE best bang fo the buck is Dave Pearlman's TM-1 (U47). Handbuilt, fantastic and somehow, affordable (good guy to work with too, he'll twak your capsule to fit your needs!)

Anyway... when you get into that level mic, it's worth reading, reading and discussing... then shooting out.

-andrews

P.S. At this level purchase, STAY AWAY from G.C., those monkeys have NO idea what they're talking about. Seriously. They'll sell you some big-looking mic and tell you it's a u47 all day long!
HAHA...Yeah, I passed out, but I did realize the expense.
However it gets me everytime.
I'm not deadset on any Neumann, mostly because I've come to find that mics tend to ruin my "the more expensive the better" theory in place of a more "whats your application" approach.

However I DO want the best mic for my application, but I don't want to throw a Ferrari at a mailman's route. (I also don't want to spend $10,000, but thats a secret.)

GC people have nabbed me a few times, but now I try to take them with a grain of salt. However, my ignorance on microphones is pretty humongous. Mention the latest overpriced MIDI controller and thats all me...mention the latest overpriced Microphone and I probably think we're still talking about MIDI controllers.

Edit:
for a range

$0 - $10,000
Old 12th September 2011
  #9
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Hope this is helpful...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
I just realized that it wasn't.
Which is kind of a weird thing for me.
Spent the last 2 years saving for mics, just hit me that I'm finally getting to buy them.



HAHA...Yeah, I passed out, but I did realize the expense.
However it gets me everytime.
I'm not deadset on any Neumann, mostly because I've come to find that mics tend to ruin my "the more expensive the better" theory in place of a more "whats your application" approach.

However I DO want the best mic for my application, but I don't want to throw a Ferrari at a mailman's route. (I also don't want to spend $10,000, but thats a secret.)

GC people have nabbed me a few times, but now I try to take them with a grain of salt. However, my ignorance on microphones is pretty humongous. Mention the latest overpriced MIDI controller and thats all me...mention the latest overpriced Microphone and I probably think we're still talking about MIDI controllers.

Edit:
for a range

$0 - $10,000
Ha! heh

Well, a few good recommends would be then:

1. Wunder CM-7 $6k

2. Wunder CM-7 GT $3k

3. Dave Pearlman TM-1 $1200 (ish) BUT, don't let the price fool ya, it's solid, I use one alongside my 47 all the time

4.Manley Reference cardiod Gold - $4k (I think... I had one, but it left me, meh)

5. Lawson L47MP $2k

6. Beesneez T1 $2800

7. Bock E47

8. Flea 47 $5k ish

Then, if you go for the real deal, I'd recommend working with Mike Nehra at Vintage King, you want someone REALLY trustworthy and SOLID in the tech dept, these guys are 100% trustworthy and good folks.

Michael Nehra <[email protected]>

Hope this all helps you.

-andrews
Old 12th September 2011
  #10
Gear Addict
 
morphtec's Avatar
Ok well then it might actually be relevant that I (and many other) absolutely do not agree with Dirty Halo regarding the Wunder. :-)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
I just realized that it wasn't.
Which is kind of a weird thing for me.
Spent the last 2 years saving for mics, just hit me that I'm finally getting to buy them.



HAHA...Yeah, I passed out, but I did realize the expense.
However it gets me everytime.
I'm not deadset on any Neumann, mostly because I've come to find that mics tend to ruin my "the more expensive the better" theory in place of a more "whats your application" approach.

However I DO want the best mic for my application, but I don't want to throw a Ferrari at a mailman's route. (I also don't want to spend $10,000, but thats a secret.)

GC people have nabbed me a few times, but now I try to take them with a grain of salt. However, my ignorance on microphones is pretty humongous. Mention the latest overpriced MIDI controller and thats all me...mention the latest overpriced Microphone and I probably think we're still talking about MIDI controllers.

Edit:
for a range

$0 - $10,000
Old 12th September 2011
  #11
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Uh, ok... thanks for that helpful info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morphtec View Post
Ok well then it might actually be relevant that I (and many other) absolutely do not agree with Dirty Halo regarding the Wunder. :-)
Agree or disagree with what? I was giving recommendations for various mics for him to shoot out (notice the broad range in recommendations).

Are you disagreeing with the fact that Wunder painstakingly sourced orignal parts and had replicas made to essentially REBUILD a classic U47 as if it were made today? That happens to be a fact.

Are you disagreeing with my opinion, having done a blind shoot out with about 8 high-end U47 mics, that the studio chose the Wunder again and again?

If you disagree with me liking the CM-7, then he ALSO ought to know a TON of people think it's amazing.

Not sure why you even feel the need to argue the point.

Did you do a mic shootout? And if so, against what mics and what were your findings?

I've seen PLENTY of forum-based babble around here with only a VERY few having ACTUALLY used the mics, so no offense intended, but when it comes to a mic of this calibre, try them yourself and take this forum with a HUGE grain o' salt.

-andrews
Old 12th September 2011
  #12
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Schwarzwald's Avatar
Just curious, and this is directed to anyone who wants to answer.

At what price range does reliability, build quality, and unwanted frequency response no longer become an object and the subjectivity of sound take over?
Old 12th September 2011
  #13
It doesn't its all voice dependent. Sometimes you can get a better recording with a cheep Chinese mic than a 3k mic. It comes down to each singer, thats why it might be better to get 2 or 3, €500 - €1k mics so you have a choice then blowing it all on a really expensive one. That said there's a reason u87's are kinda industry standard, they tend to cover most needs and are good all rounders. Personally I think sm7b's are great for rap and rock, loud male voices, not soft female vox. I would go for a LDC and get some treatment, or at least look into a SE Reflection Filter.



.
Old 12th September 2011
  #14
Gear Addict
 
morphtec's Avatar
To me your, original statement regarding the Wunder, reads as if you were saying that the CM7 is, in fact, a U47 (like the original, no difference). Which it is not. I'm not arguing if it is a good mic or not. I don't really care who likes what microphone for whatever reason ...
Forgive me if I got that wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Agree or disagree with what? I was giving recommendations for various mics for him to shoot out (notice the broad range in recommendations).

Are you disagreeing with the fact that Wunder painstakingly sourced orignal parts and had replicas made to essentially REBUILD a classic U47 as if it were made today? That happens to be a fact.

Are you disagreeing with my opinion, having done a blind shoot out with about 8 high-end U47 mics, that the studio chose the Wunder again and again?

If you disagree with me liking the CM-7, then he ALSO ought to know a TON of people think it's amazing.

Not sure why you even feel the need to argue the point.

Did you do a mic shootout? And if so, against what mics and what were your findings?

I've seen PLENTY of forum-based babble around here with only a VERY few having ACTUALLY used the mics, so no offense intended, but when it comes to a mic of this calibre, try them yourself and take this forum with a HUGE grain o' salt.

-andrews
Old 12th September 2011
  #15
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sftd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
It doesn't its all voice dependent. Sometimes you can get a better recording with a cheep Chinese mic than a 3k mic. It comes down to each singer, thats why it might be better to get 2 or 3, €500 - €1k mics so you have a choice then blowing it all on a really expensive one. That said there's a reason u87's are kinda industry standard, they tend to cover most needs and are good all rounders. Personally I think sm7b's are great for rap and rock, loud male voices, not soft female vox. I would go for a LDC and get some treatment, or at least look into a SE Reflection Filter.



.
+1 thus the reason studios have mic -closets-

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Old 12th September 2011
  #16
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Well we could always use some laughs, so I've compiled a little mic comparison from my very short two year discography just for this thread.

IMPORTANT:

Most of these were recorded VERY early (within a month or starting, some before) into my "doing everything myself" EM making/mixing/engineering/etc. That means horrible skills and total inexperience at any of those things could mask the sound the mic is actually capable of!

Be warned!

CHEAPIES:

MXL V67m (EMU interface pres) -- I think this is the most recent of the bunch, just me, the piano, and bad girlfriend times. --Wedding Ringmodulator

MXL V69m (EMU interface pres) -- Hanging out with friends and talking about writing a jingle for a dentist office and how people always sound so passionate about silly things like dentistry -- Dentist

SM7B (EMU interface pres) -- This is one month into making EM/producing/mixing, so likely quite laughable, I posted this as one of my only songs my first go-round with GS! -- 2948

MXL ?? (Blue LDC) (EMU interface pres) -- I can't for the life of me remember the model of this MXL, but it was bright blue. Also a little under a month into EM. -- BFF

MXL 990 (Tascam interface pres) -- I told you it sucked, and now it will be proven. Tiny little clip sitting out in my friends garage with an accoustic and a bunch of crickets. I was probably 17 or so. -- IBWT


NOT SO CHEAPIES:

TLM 103 (Avalon pre) -- This is one of like 9 songs from what I call "hiphop night" which was where a couple times a week me and a few friends would get togother at a hip-hop producer friend of mines house and record this ******** little songs. This was the last of those, again, about a month of anything besides instrument playing under my belt. -- Nervous

TLM 103 (again) (EMU interface converters) -- Not a hiphop night special, but still in my first month or two of EM, vocals are all over the map processing wise, so perhaps not the best example. -- Claymore

U87 (Avalon pres) -- This was the song that started "hiphop night". I was 17 at this point and only played the elements of the track, the mix was done by the owner of the studio/mic and founder of "hiphop" night. I was also drunk. Oh, and this was before that copycat T-Pain ever even had a record deal! -- AT Sings the Classics. (Slowjammode)


That's the best I can info wise!

Yes, laugh at both my voice and the horrible quality of my engineering and such back then (although when I say that I'm making it sound like my entire two years of experience NOW is actually much of anything at all). Don't worry, I laugh too.


PS: For obvious reasons (you'll hear my voice and understand) I haven't recorded anything vocally in a year, but I do have a U87 of my own now if you'd like me to do any tests with it.
Old 12th September 2011
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphtec View Post
To me your, original statement regarding the Wunder, reads as if you were saying that the CM7 is, in fact, a U47 (like the original, no difference). Which it is not. I'm not arguing if it is a good mic or not. I don't really care who likes what microphone for whatever reason ...
Forgive me if I got that wrong.
This is what I meant:

The Wunder Audio CM7 Tube Microphone comes with the original large-style U47 transformer that was used in the earlier U47's, including the legendary "Large Badge" U47. These first couple of hundred U47's are very sought after sonically. The CM7 transformer's larger size and high nickel content achieves better low end rolling off at 20 Hz, identical to the original U47 design, instead of 40 Hz. The smaller 40 Hz transformer that was used in later versions of the U47 was made with the 40 Hz roll-off as a requirement for the IRT (German Broadcasting Network).

IMO, the Wunder CM7 IS identical to a U47, both in the parts used and sound. In our shootouts, the biggest problem was, the vintage U47's all varied from wear, better and worse maintanence, etc.

The Wunder would be more like getting one of those first U47s if it were made today.

(I think way way waaaay too many opinions on this forum are incestious re-posting of posts, disguised as experience and opinion... and don't take MY word for it. People should try for themselves. Most posts here have nothing to do with ACTUALLY using the mic)

-andrews
Old 14th September 2011
  #18
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Thanks for that sftd!

I actually like the MXL V67, would you consider it a good mic with all the information you have on it and from mixing today?

Also, what do you all think of AT 4050,4040, 4035?
I'm also looking at the RODE NT-2A

I'm leaning on the NT-2A, mostly because they have them around here and I can go test and return easily if I don't like it.
Old 14th September 2011
  #19
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I don't want to come across too negative.. but the assumption to choose mics on style and not according to the actual source is completely beyond me. Apart from that, there are a lot of threads on similar questions you could spend a few days browsing.
Old 14th September 2011
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
Thanks for that sftd!

I actually like the MXL V67, would you consider it a good mic with all the information you have on it and from mixing today?

Also, what do you all think of AT 4050,4040, 4035?
I'm also looking at the RODE NT-2A

I'm leaning on the NT-2A, mostly because they have them around here and I can go test and return easily if I don't like it.
You're welcome. I've used the AT4040 but it was only on my voice and I didn't like it.

As for my recommendation knowing what I know now, if I were to pick out of the cheapie range I would go for the V69 or SM7. I didn't dislike the V67 at all but I thought overall the V69 was a little better for not much more money.

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