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Is a prerecorded loop with original lyrics an original song? Desktop Synthesizers
Old 6th September 2011
  #1
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billykmusic's Avatar
 

Is a prerecorded loop with original lyrics an original song?

Hi,

I had a guy who wanted me to mix this song that he "wrote". After playing it back, I realized I heard the music in the song before. (it was a construction kit I bought from loopmasters a few months ago..I liked the kick drums, so I downloaded the pack). Anyway, when I told him I knew the song was a loop, he said "well I wrote the melody and sang on top of it". His melody is actually very catchy. My question is..can he actually copyright the song as well as shop it to labels or try to get it into tv/movies and get paid?

It seems I could just buy a "RnB loop/construction set CD", sing on all the tracks and release a perfectly produced album????

Just curious
Old 6th September 2011
  #2
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billykmusic View Post
My question is..can he actually copyright the song as well as shop it to labels or try to get it into tv/movies and get paid?
Yes. Provided he purchased the pack, the audio is licensed to him royalty free.

In fact, it's ALREADY copyrighted; the moment he committed it to a tangible form (ie, recorded it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by billykmusic View Post
It seems I could just buy a "RnB loop/construction set CD", sing on all the tracks and release a perfectly produced album????
You can do this. Lady Gaga & the Black Eyed Peas have made a career out of it.
Old 6th September 2011
  #3
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MoBeach's Avatar
 

So I suppose there's several songs out there based on the same loops?
Old 6th September 2011
  #4
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBeach View Post
So I suppose there's several songs out there based on the same loops?
Many.
Old 6th September 2011
  #5
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
You just described like 75% of hip hop. So yeah, it counts, even if in this particular case it sounds a little creatively bankrupt (those guys at least go digging for their samples).
Old 7th September 2011
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto View Post
You just described like 75% of hip hop. So yeah, it counts, even if in this particular case it sounds a little creatively bankrupt (those guys at least go digging for their samples).
a little? loop construction kits are made for kids. Magix music makers
Old 7th September 2011
  #7
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Acid Hazard's Avatar
^^As Above^^
Old 7th September 2011
  #8
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krushing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto View Post
You just described like 75% of hip hop. So yeah, it counts, even if in this particular case it sounds a little creatively bankrupt (those guys at least go digging for their samples).
Although these days digging seems to mostly mean downloading a "300 classic breakz" mp3 set.
Old 7th September 2011
  #9
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
a little? loop construction kits are made for kids. Magix music makers
None of which will matter if he manages to sell music as opposed to having nobody listen to it.
Old 7th September 2011
  #10
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billykmusic's Avatar
 

Jeez,

I remember when I thought using a drumloop was "cheating". haha. Remember Acid Pro 3? I know I hear the same chord progressions all the time, but if I hear the same music loop with different lyrics..well that might get annoying!! Maybe this is why studios aren't getting the business they used to. Just needing to lay down vocals is a lot easier than hiring a producer I guess.
Old 7th September 2011
  #11
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In Jamaican music it's very rare for a backing track to NOT be released in 5 or more versions with different melodies. Some have been reused hundreds or thousands of times -- how do you think producer duo Sly & Robbie got to their estimated 100,000+ releases?

As for just getting something off a sample CD or stealing a loop from someone else's recording, I think it's fine. If it works it works. Half my songs I don't know who the artist is anyways, I just buy it off Juno if I hear something I like and have the music player shuffle.
Old 7th September 2011
  #12
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How do you guys like my new work of art? Made it in under 2 minutes too!

Old 7th September 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
How do you guys like my new work of art? Made it in under 2 minutes too!

profit
Old 7th September 2011
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBeach View Post
So I suppose there's several songs out there based on the same loops?

A "song" requires a voice and words. It exists entirely separate from the backing track. Hence acoustic, electric, electronic versions of the same song.

So yeah, change the melody and words, and you have an entirely new song, regardless of the backing track.
Old 7th September 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
How do you guys like my new work of art? Made it in under 2 minutes too!
It's okay. Your painting style is very basic though... like that of a child. You could never be considered a proper artist with brushwork like that.

Also, the subject is quite melancholic. It might be better if the image was a nude female, and the medium was a photograph.
While you are at it, I'd lose that messy writing from over the top of it too.
Old 7th September 2011
  #16
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
How do you guys like my new work of art? Made it in under 2 minutes too!
..


Pop
music is really the only artform where it's not a blow to one's standing as an artist to simply cut and paste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
It's okay. Your painting style is very basic though... like that of a child. You could never be considered a proper artist with brushwork like that.

...
Heheee, nice one
Old 7th September 2011
  #17
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Susceptor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
A "song" requires a voice and words. It exists entirely separate from the backing track. Hence acoustic, electric, electronic versions of the same song.

So yeah, change the melody and words, and you have an entirely new song, regardless of the backing track.
Hmm... so I guess instrumental music isn't really music, amirite? I mean yeah, Bach only did backing tracks.
Old 7th September 2011
  #18
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Legally speaking, everything's peachy. From an ethical point of view, it's obviously different. But then again, since when pop music ever cared for anything other than money?
Old 7th September 2011
  #19
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rotundness's Avatar
Yea this is happening all the time with my hip hop clients.
Some, but not all, just download beats from sites and put their vocals on it. Kind of getting into Karaoke territory. When I first started, everyone brought their MPC's in and tracked their songs out first, then did the vocals.
They used samples of other's music but they turned it into something of their own. I do have clients that still roll their own but they are becoming more and more rare.

Sad if you ask me.

randy
Old 7th September 2011
  #20
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payt's Avatar
 

I bet at least the vocals are really amazing then!
Old 7th September 2011
  #21
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Susceptor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
I bet at least the vocals are really amazing then!
Damn I hate a shy bitch
Don't you hate a shy bitch?
Yeah I ate a shy bitch

© Lil Wayne
Old 9th September 2011
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
How do you guys like my new work of art? Made it in under 2 minutes too!

Yes nice, but did you make sure to purchase the Van Gogh sample pack first?
Old 9th September 2011
  #23
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam View Post
Yes nice, but did you make sure to purchase the Van Gogh sample pack first?
Hehe, if it's legal, it's great?

I'm guessing the romantic days of hailing the original creation are over?
Old 9th September 2011
  #24
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The works of Van Gogh are in the public domain. Anyone can use them as a background or as a part of their artistic work. Same with any music written by someone who died before 1941. Now, of course, a classical music recording is an entirely different matter, even if the composition is in the public domain, the recording may still be covered by copyright protection.
Old 9th September 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
Hmm... so I guess instrumental music isn't really music, amirite? I mean yeah, Bach only did backing tracks.
instrumental music isn't a song. a song contains lyrics. instrumental music wouldn't be called instrumental MUSIC if it wasn't music.
Old 9th September 2011
  #26
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I know what's the definition of a song, but how would you call for example a DnB song (or any audio material that is music, but has no voice whatsoever)? I don't think people refer to it as "short electronic instrumental recording"; it still is a song, although it doesn't respect the text book definition of it.
Old 9th September 2011
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds View Post
instrumental music isn't a song. a song contains lyrics. instrumental music wouldn't be called instrumental MUSIC if it wasn't music.
Wow, impressive you could miss the man's point, I thought it was pretty clear. And a good point btw.
Old 9th September 2011
  #28
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Is a prerecorded loop with original lyrics an original song?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor
but how would you call for example a DnB song
A DnB track? I feel all strange inside calling them DnB songs. Lol
Old 9th September 2011
  #29
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Yeah, I guess track is also a suitable word. YMMV & all of that.
Old 9th September 2011
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
Hmm... so I guess instrumental music isn't really music, amirite? I mean yeah, Bach only did backing tracks.
This is an uninformed comment. Instrumental music is still music. Its just not a song. A "song" means words and lyrics and melody. Look it up in a music theory book, or the dictionary.

Bach didn't write songs. He did, however, write sonatas, canatas, preludes, fugues, dance suites, concertos, etc etc etc. None of these are "songs," all of them are different works of music.
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