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Best hardware effects (reverb, echo, chorus) unit(s) for synths? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 4th September 2011
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grace24 View Post
why do people buy hardware effects when there are tons of plugins?
i think the current plugins available are great - particularly the sound toys ones - they're catching up with some of the hardware units, but there is still something the eventide h3000 or 8000 units do that you cant do yet with plugs. a sort of lushness. but maybe i didn't learn to use my plugins well enough yet!

jammin
Old 4th September 2011
  #32
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Again, the PCM81 has the band delays, pitch-shifted reverbs and inverse reverbs. I've never seen a GOOD YouTube video of someone demo-ing an Eventide or a Lexicon with a synth (always guitars).

I compared the PCM-81 to the H-3000 dfx a long time ago in a controlled setting, and I chose the Lex. (It was close, they were both great). Honestly you can't go wrong with either.

Ensoniq DP4: It's really cool for making complex effects chains, but it doesn't have the smooth sound of the Lexicons, and the reverb on it is not even as good as an Alesis (IMHO).
Old 4th September 2011
  #33
If you want to go dirty, get the Roland DEP 5. This machine makes the sound 80ish instantly. Even for softsynths.
Old 4th September 2011
  #34
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RE-501 is the non rack version of SRE-555, a little cheaper
Old 4th September 2011
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
RE-501 is the non rack version of SRE-555, a little cheaper
RE-501 has all three: reverb, echo and chorus =O. Now I don't need complicated effects, I just need nice simple ones to make my sounds sound huge - and this thing can be had for under $1000, and its tape last up to 300 hours as opposed to 50 on the RE-201, very interesting.
Old 4th September 2011
  #36
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but it's mono spring reverb, mono chorus and analog tape echo, with sound on sound function
Puesdo Stereo if you use the unbalanced outs and pan them hard left and right - spring reverb one side, echo the other, chorus in the middle

And the transport makes a whirrring and squeaking sound
Old 4th September 2011
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
but it's mono spring reverb, mono chorus and analog tape echo, with sound on sound function
Puesdo Stereo if you use the unbalanced outs and pan them hard left and right - spring reverb one side, echo the other, chorus in the middle
Well does this matter much? I don't need my delays or reverbs to bounce from L to R to L, I'm really just trying to recreate that giant CS-80 sound in the YouTube montage I linked here a bit ago. I think he did the same thing with his SRE-555, split them up into diff channels to get his sound?
Old 4th September 2011
  #38
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ionraygun's Avatar
 

I love running synths thru CE-300 and SRE-555.
Old 4th September 2011
  #39
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTION View Post
Well does this matter much? I don't need my delays or reverbs to bounce from L to R to L, I'm really just trying to recreate that giant CS-80 sound in the YouTube montage I linked here a bit ago. I think he did the same thing with his SRE-555, split them up into diff channels to get his sound?
Yes, and then into an old Eventide reverb unit
The CS80 has an analog chorus unit anyway

SRE-555 mono vs Stereo on my Yamaha VL1.
VL1 was routed through the SRE-555, which adds some colouration as well
Attached Files

CCJ_VL1_DualBrass_SRE-555_Mono.mp3 (777.7 KB, 1824 views)

CCJ_VL1_DualBrass_SRE-555_Stereo.mp3 (1.74 MB, 1733 views)

Old 4th September 2011
  #40
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I am an avid collector of tape echos / analog delays & echos
My favorites are:
Roland SRE-555 / RE-501
Roland RE-301heh
Korg SE-500

Run all my synths through 'em.

Also dig some older digital units
Roland Space Echo RE-5 or RE-3

The old Yamaha SPX units also sound decent, and can be had for cheap these days.

What's a plugin?
Old 4th September 2011
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionraygun View Post
I love running synths thru CE-300 and SRE-555.
Old 4th September 2011
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
Yes, and then into an old Eventide reverb unit
The CS80 has an analog chorus unit anyway

SRE-555 mono vs Stereo on my Yamaha VL1.
VL1 was routed through the SRE-555, which adds some colouration as well
How did you get your SRE-555 reverb/delay to be stereo? I take back what I said, it does sound way better to me in stereo...I NEED STEREO! I NEED SPACE ECHO! What do I do here CoolColJ? Guide me into greatness, guru!
Old 4th September 2011
  #43
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love my eventide eclipse. scored it used for 1,200

the only other things i have experience that come close to the abilities of the eclipse are Kurzweil's KSP8 or their Mangler + Rumor... which together i think equal the ks8

a month or so ago they were blowing out manglers on ebay for $300... insanely good deal and i would've jumped on it but I only record 1 thing at a time so the eclipse has me covered
Old 4th September 2011
  #44
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initself's Avatar
kkkkkkkkkQuadraverb!
Old 4th September 2011
  #45
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Elkorus !
Old 4th September 2011
  #46
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Do you guys think that it is easy for most folks to tell the difference between the coloration provided by analog echo such as an RE-101 and that provided by something digital like Soundtoys Echoboy?

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Old 4th September 2011
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
Do you guys think that it is easy for most folks to tell the difference between the coloration provided by analog echo such as an RE-101 and that provided by something digital like Soundtoys Echoboy?

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Most folks? Most folks don't know squat, its their ears that know something is pleasant or not. I do this for myself, not most folks.

You don't buy an Roland Space Echo because most folks will be able to tell hey its a badass Space Echo! You buy it because its a very tiny part of your sound, and when you a sum a lot of great tiny details, most folk will say "hey that guy sounds pretty good".
Old 4th September 2011
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTION View Post
Most folks? Most folks don't know squat, its their ears that know something is pleasant or not. I do this for myself, not most folks.

You don't buy an Roland Space Echo because most folks will be able to tell hey its a badass Space Echo! You buy it because its a very tiny part of your sound, and when you a sum a lot of great tiny details, most folk will say "hey that guy sounds pretty good".
Our philosophies differ a bit in the regard that as much as I use music creation as a therapeutic/cathartic release for my own enjoyment, I also desire others to enjoy it. While I don't mold any of the creation processes to specifically fit the desires of another, I take others opinions and perspective of enjoyment into my consideration.

I own both a 101 and a 201, so I'm just looking for a bit of perspective, let me rephrase the question!

Do -you- find something like a 101 more pleasing to the ear than something in the vein of Echoboy? You can also substitute Echoboy for any other similar digital echo in this example.

Whether you do or do not find it more pleasing, are you fairly sure that when you hear that type of echo you can distinctly identify it as being of a analog/tape based origin?

What, for you, is a larger factor in creating the pleasing quality? The particular use of the device in whatever instance it may be, or the sonic properties of the device itself?

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Old 4th September 2011
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
Do -you- find something like a 101 more pleasing to the ear than something in the vein of Echoboy? You can also substitute Echoboy for any other similar digital echo in this example.
Considering I've never bought hardware reverb/echo before, I wouldn't know. I'm basing my opinion on just sounds from the internet, and I've never been good with learning plugins, it kind of makes me itchy to sit and tweak knobs I cant touch, with hardware effects my entire setup will become hardware aside from a DAW. The only reason I know the little bits of Echoboy that I know is because I had to, and needed a goto for my mixes - but I'm still not motivated to learn it fully - with hardware I'd probably spend a whole few days just learning cause I get excited knowing I have a valuable piece in my hands. But to answer your question, I find an SRE-555 much more pleasing and real than Echoboy, which has worked great for me so far. I'm just ready to step it up a level and have the cash for it, so why not? I'll have both - Echoboy for putting together rough mixes and a Space Echo for when I'm ready to set things in stone and add that perfect glimmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
Whether you do or do not find it more pleasing, are you fairly sure that when you hear that type of echo you can distinctly identify it as being of a analog/tape based origin?
Nowadays, probably not. But I'm just following my favorite groups who used hardware and still do for their sound, so its kind of a mental thing - even though I know plugins work too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
What, for you, is a larger factor in creating the pleasing quality? The particular use of the device in whatever instance it may be, or the sonic properties of the device itself?
For me, it was hearing a CS-80 fed through a Space Echo:



Touching real knobs is also important to me, it's just what I need to have or I'm not comfortable with what I'm doing.
Old 4th September 2011
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTION View Post
Considering I've never bought hardware reverb/echo before, I wouldn't know. I'm basing my opinion on just sounds from the internet, and I've never been good with learning plugins, it kind of makes me itchy to sit and tweak knobs I cant touch, with hardware effects my entire setup will become hardware aside from a DAW. The only reason I know the little bits of Echoboy that I know is because I had to, and needed a goto for my mixes - but I'm still not motivated to learn it fully - with hardware I'd probably spend a whole few days just learning cause I get excited knowing I have a valuable piece in my hands. But to answer your question, I find an SRE-555 much more pleasing and real than Echoboy, which has worked great for me so far. I'm just ready to step it up a level and have the cash for it, so why not? I'll have both - Echoboy for putting together rough mixes and a Space Echo for when I'm ready to set things in stone and add that perfect glimmer.

Nowadays, probably not. But I'm just following my favorite groups who used hardware and still do for their sound, so its kind of a mental thing - even though I know plugins work too.

For me, it was hearing a CS-80 fed through a Space Echo:



Touching real knobs is also important to me, it's just what I need to have or I'm not comfortable with what I'm doing.
Thank you! Those are excellent answers and right in line with what I was seeking curiousity wise!

As an aside, do you feel a disconnect between assigned MIDI controls and their usage in the regard of providing tactile controls for software that you can in fact touch and manipulate, and on the other side hardwired tactile controls on a dedicated hardware unit?

To you, what creates that disconnect if you do experience it?

Do you think, if a magical piece of MIDI controlling hardware were released tomorrow that read your mind and subsequently mapped the controls of whatever piece of software you were using in the most intuitive manner possible -for you- that any sort of disconnect in that regard would be lessened or eliminated?

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Old 4th September 2011
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
Do you think, if a magical piece of MIDI controlling hardware were released tomorrow that read your mind and subsequently mapped the controls of whatever piece of software you were using in the most intuitive manner possible -for you- that any sort of disconnect in that regard would be lessened or eliminated?

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Dunno if youre trying to reverse convince me to go that route, but we both know they have this already. My answer would still be no. I want the real thing, for itself. I am a slut.

Anyways, back on topic. Still need to know what to pick, current choices:

SRE-555
RE-201/301/401
Eventide H3000/Space/Timefactor
Old 4th September 2011
  #52
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i know i'm the only one guilty of this

but owning hardware has never inspired me to read the manual.

cool thing about hardware... seems like it is more intuitively learned
Old 4th September 2011
  #53
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HYPNOTIKINFEKTED's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTION View Post
Anyways, back on topic. Still need to know what to pick, current choices:

SRE-555
RE-201/301/401
Eventide H3000/Space/Timefactor
Hate to burst your bubble,.. not sure if it was a typo

No such tape echo: "RE-401"tutt

Roland Space Echo series:

Analogue / Tape:
RE-100
RE-200
RE-150
RE-101
RE-201
RE-301
RE-501
SRE-555

Digital:
RE-3
RE-5
RE-20
Old 4th September 2011
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTION View Post
How did you get your SRE-555 reverb/delay to be stereo? I take back what I said, it does sound way better to me in stereo...I NEED STEREO! I NEED SPACE ECHO! What do I do here CoolColJ? Guide me into greatness, guru!
Use it via send and return, rather through the unit
you just plug 2 cables into it - output A contains spring reverb and chorus
output B contains the tape delay, sound on sound and chorus

pan them hard left and right, and you end up with spring reverb on one side, tape echo on the other, chorus in the middle since it's in both outputs.

Doesn't sound like it would work well, but it does. Especially with pads.
The spring reverb picks up the delay as well, so you get an even balance
I go though the various functions here
Old 4th September 2011
  #55
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Also before I forget - SRE-555 delay tempo sync tip


One tip I picked up from this list which is invaluable is the 555 syncs very
solidly to any clock signal (eg from a sequencer) through the cv input just
under the repeats switch. I spent my first months fiddling to try to get the
delay time right by hand, now I just jack it in and it is like it was a midi
box, convenience wise. You can also then force it to stray and then lock
back, vary the delay timing etc.


Off course you need something with a midi to clock out. Those Kenton Mid to CV convertors will do it, as will Silent Way VST with DC coupled soundcard - maybe send out a square LFO locked to tempo.
Or even drum kick/metronome sound from your sequencer
Old 5th September 2011
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HYPNOTIKINFEKTED View Post
Hate to burst your bubble,.. not sure if it was a typo
Yes ignore the 401 part period. I need either a RE-501 or SRE-555 if it's going to be Roland. 201 is cool but I'm taking analog chorus with the unit if I'm gonna be paying that much.
Old 5th September 2011
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTION View Post
Dunno if youre trying to reverse convince me to go that route, but we both know they have this already. My answer would still be no. I want the real thing, for itself. I am a slut.

Anyways, back on topic. Still need to know what to pick, current choices:

SRE-555
RE-201/301/401
Eventide H3000/Space/Timefactor
You know of a MIDI controller that reads the mind of the user to automaticly map paramaters in the most intuitive manner for their personal workflow???!

ME WANT!!!

On a more serious note, I am not trying to convince you of anything. We are all wonderfuly different humans with different likes and dislikes, to try to convince you of something simply because I enjoy it is foolish, selfish, and stupid.

I don't like being any of those things!

I am just very curious to the opinions and trains of thought that make up our differences as people, I didn't mean to cause you to react defensively and apologize if it was due to some kind of percieved offense.

Knowing that, could you offer me any more insight on the questions I had?

I completely understand if you don't want to and will not in any way feel offended or even off-set if that's so!

Thank you however for even bearing with me as long as you have already!


Were you being serious about the "we both know they have these already"??

While I am definitely not as knowledgeable about the gear world as some, I can't think of ANY current musical gear that reads the mind of the user.

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Old 5th September 2011
  #58
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For $1000 I'd go Ensoniq DP/4+ , Roland DEP-5, and a TC reverb of some kind. Maybe even a Kurzweil Rumour. All used.

A variety of types of effects and reverbs.
Old 5th September 2011
  #59
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SRE-555/501 with one of the Eventide boxes would be my choice
Old 5th September 2011
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
You know of a MIDI controller that reads the mind of the user to automaticly map paramaters in the most intuitive manner for their personal workflow???!
Not exactly a mind reader but I thought you meant midi controllers that can be mapped to softsynths. Hope you don't actually think I know hardware that reads minds lol (besides the real ones that arent used for music).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
On a more serious note, I am not trying to convince you of anything. We are all wonderfuly different humans with different likes and dislikes, to try to convince you of something simply because I enjoy it is foolish, selfish, and stupid.
In that case I'm extremely sorry for coming off defensive, I just thought you were one of those anti-hardware guys for a second, which I was wrong to assume considering you own hardware yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
As an aside, do you feel a disconnect between assigned MIDI controls and their usage in the regard of providing tactile controls for software that you can in fact touch and manipulate, and on the other side hardwired tactile controls on a dedicated hardware unit?
I'm not as smart as you, and I'm certainly no where near as experienced as you so I'll probably understand this question wrong. Yes I absolutely feel a disconnection, but have no idea. It's a mental thing, the way I was raised, generation, preference etc. For me I hate knowing that a computer is running an emulation of the real thing first of all, and then to complicate things and have to buy a separate controller to touch something not real (not talking about end product, which is very real, talking about the interface)? It's just a turn off - but some people do amazing with this and i'm all for comfort. That disconnection is there with software VSTs and synths period, adding mind-reading hardware to it won't make me feel better (even though my brain knows 100% its the same thing). With a dedicated reverb unit I'd feel confident and proud when I release my tracks, cause I had a real machine built by a great company do the work - is this egotistical and stupid to the average listener? Yes, but when I consider music the biggest part of my life I really want it to matter to me HOW I do things, not just the end product. The journey counts - and a Roland Space Echo will never lose value if I need to resell. With hardware I have, I've spent time learning the ins and outs of everything, I stare at a computer screen enough so when making music I try to get away from that as much as possible as it helps me clear my mind and have fun letting the music out, rather than get frustrated on a platform that others are pros at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
Do you think, if a magical piece of MIDI controlling hardware were released tomorrow that read your mind and subsequently mapped the controls of whatever piece of software you were using in the most intuitive manner possible -for you- that any sort of disconnect in that regard would be lessened or eliminated?
A mind reading one will never happen, not in the next 50 years. But if it did Id just twist the knobs on my computer screen with my mind til everything was perfect. That would connect me directly to it, but I'd still be unhappy. I want the real thing :\ its stubborn I know.
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