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You know what sucks? Mobile Apps
Old 3rd September 2011
  #1
Gear Nut
 

You know what sucks?

You can buy awesome soft synths for iPhone and iPad for less than $10, but equivalent synth packages as VSTs are over $100.

I want to be able to run them as a VST damnit!

In fact, we need a VST iOS emulator. That would make my day.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #2
Gear Addict
 
ReubenTobias's Avatar
 

any examples? I can not think of any vstis that are available as direct ports for ipad ata lower cost.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #3
Gear Nut
 

No, the other way - there are awesome iOS synths that you can't run as VSTs.

Edit: For example:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sunri...ign-mpt=uo%3D4

$3 and it sounds badass. Why can't I get that for $3 in Logic? Damnit.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #4
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wwjd's Avatar
Now, I know this is a CrAzY IdEa here... but stay with me a moment.... here it comes..... insanity ensues....

how about just pressing RECORD and PLAYING the cheap iPhone synths to a track if you like it?

I know, I know... that is so old school like 1990's a stuff, but it could work around not having the VST to computer syncro-meshing in with super tight midi perfection exactly perfect on the beat because a microporcessor is playing instead of the human that wrote it.
That's not old fashioned, just an alternative way of accomplishing something.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd View Post
how about just pressing RECORD and PLAYING the cheap iPhone synths to a track if you like it?
Limited midi support.
AD/DA.

It's just silly that this fantastic software exists, on an OSX based platform, and I can't use it with my other software.

Grrr.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #6
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

I'd love to have the Moog Filtatron iOS app for my desktop Mac!
Old 3rd September 2011
  #7
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shadowfac's Avatar
 

I disagree. There are TONS of absolutely FREE good-sounding VSTs out there. Probably many more than the total number of iOS music apps.

Just imagine how much people had to pay in the early 90's for hardware that did 1% of what's freely available today (as long as you have a decent PC).

So let me tell you what I think sucks. It sucks that people (not necessarily the OP - I'm generalizing here) nowadays don't want to spend any money or time pursuing their goals. They gasp at the idea of having to spend a few $100's in gear that may allow them to make their dreams come true. And then they complain because their PC is too slow (i.e.- not a 4 GHz i7) because they can't be bothered to properly configure it or, god forbid, bounce a track as audio - a task so stressful and cumbersome that takes no more than a couple of mouse clicks and can be undone in any decent DAW. Or can't be bothered to take an archaic device known as "a cable" and record a real synth through their audio interface because it doesn't support "DAW integration".

Sorry for the rant - it wasn't only in response to the OP but to a constantly degrading state of things, including, but not limited to, musicianship.

And get off my damn lawn.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #8
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wwjd's Avatar
but but you CAN'T make MUSIC without midi!
Old 3rd September 2011
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
I disagree. There are TONS of absolutely FREE good-sounding VSTs out there. Probably many more than the total number of iOS music apps.

Just imagine how much people had to pay in the early 90's for hardware that did 1% of what's freely available today (as long as you have a decent PC).

So let me tell you what I think sucks. It sucks that people (not necessarily the OP - I'm generalizing here) nowadays don't want to spend any money or time pursuing their goals. They gasp at the idea of having to spend a few $100's in gear that may allow them to make their dreams come true. And then they complain because their PC is too slow (i.e.- not a 4 GHz i7) because they can't be bothered to properly configure it or, god forbid, bounce a track as audio - a task so stressful and cumbersome that takes no more than a couple of mouse clicks and can be undone in any decent DAW. Or can't be bothered to take an archaic device known as "a cable" and record a real synth through their audio interface because it doesn't support "DAW integration".

Sorry for the rant - it wasn't only in response to the OP but to a constantly degrading state of things, including, but not limited to, musicianship.

And get off my damn lawn.
I realize there are some great free VSTs but that's not really my point. My point is that there are some really fantastic "apps" that make really awesome sounds and should totally be able to integrate into other Apple sound products like logic. And it's a damn shame that they don't.

As for "musicianship," I'm not really looking for a overly simplified solution to an inability to make patches. I can make patches. And I record actual sounds all the time.

But you know what's so great about making music these days? That you don't HAVE to set up your mics, your mixer, your daw, record a measures, bounce them, and import them as a sample before you can have a useable sound. That's WHY we developed these great, and simplified solutions - it's a pain in the ass to work that way and the workflow now is better for it.

Which is why I'd like to have some of those apps - I like their workflow better than other VSTs I have or have used. Sooner or later, though, I'm sure they'll show up in my DAWs. I just wish it was sooner.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #10
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kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
I realize there are some great free VSTs but that's not really my point. My point is that there are some really fantastic "apps" that make really awesome sounds and should totally be able to integrate into other Apple sound products like logic. And it's a damn shame that they don't.

As for "musicianship," I'm not really looking for a overly simplified solution to an inability to make patches. I can make patches. And I record actual sounds all the time.

But you know what's so great about making music these days? That you don't HAVE to set up your mics, your mixer, your daw, record a measures, bounce them, and import them as a sample before you can have a useable sound. That's WHY we developed these great, and simplified solutions - it's a pain in the ass to work that way and the workflow now is better for it.

Which is why I'd like to have some of those apps - I like their workflow better than other VSTs I have or have used. Sooner or later, though, I'm sure they'll show up in my DAWs. I just wish it was sooner.
I think you miss the big picture here.

Those apps are released to the general public , people who just own an ios device and may or may not be regular musicians.

VSTs are tools that target a specific audiance well educated in the music technology field and making music regularly.

The problem with vst market is that is already crowed with extremely powerful audio tools. And those audio apps have nothing exceptional new to add to the market.

If developers thought that the had a good chances to profit from the vst market then I am pretty sure they would release those apps as vsts.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #11
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shadowfac's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
I realize there are some great free VSTs but that's not really my point. My point is that there are some really fantastic "apps" that make really awesome sounds and should totally be able to integrate into other Apple sound products like logic. And it's a damn shame that they don't.
I have no problem integrating my Nintendo DS (w/ Korg DS-10 and GlitchDS) as well as my iPod Touch (Moog Filtatron, Nanoloop, etc) along with my DAW, my analog gear or my other software. I just set them to the same tempo as my main project and sync them by hand. I've also used them as the sync host by means of a Synthrotek Clock Capture. No, they don't have MIDI. No, it's not such a big deal.

In the worst case, you can record the output of these devices as audio loops, cut them in your favorite audio editor and then stretch them and sync them to tempo in most DAWs (Ableton, Sonar, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
But you know what's so great about making music these days? That you don't HAVE to set up your mics, your mixer, your daw, record a measures, bounce them, and import them as a sample before you can have a useable sound.
Those are all good things, as long as you don't forget the basics. What if you need a vocal track for your song? You do have to set up a mic and an audio track on your DAW, don't you?

No disrespect, but your attitude reminds me of students who have a kick ass calculator but can't do any basic arithmetic by themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
That's WHY we developed these great, and simplified solutions - it's a pain in the ass to work that way and the workflow now is better for it.
Wait.... "We"? "We" developed these solutions? If it seems so easy to you, why don't you design the tools just as you want them?

Seriously, if stuff like bouncing tracks, audio recording, manually sync'ing two devices, and setting up mics seem a pain in the ass to you, then maybe you need to reconsider your hobby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
Which is why I'd like to have some of those apps - I like their workflow better than other VSTs I have or have used. Sooner or later, though, I'm sure they'll show up in my DAWs. I just wish it was sooner.
There's no sooner than now. You can use them now. If you stop complaining and try to get a little creative. And, IMO, that's part of the fun of making electronic music.

The problem is when you want it now, for free, and without any hassles. Maybe you want someone else to also do the music for you? Why not just buy a CD then?
Old 3rd September 2011
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
Wait.... "We"? "We" developed these solutions? If it seems so easy to you, why don't you design the tools just as you want them?

Seriously, if stuff like bouncing tracks, audio recording, manually sync'ing two devices, and setting up mics seem a pain in the ass to you, then maybe you need to reconsider your hobby.

The problem is when you want it now, for free, and without any hassles. Maybe you want someone else to also do the music for you? Why not just buy a CD then?
By we I meant the music community.

And I don't see why your so uppity about this - I just wish the tools that I have at my disposal on an iPhone or iPad were also available in my DAWs. And even if I can record samples directly in (which I have done), I would prefer not to have to, if only for the sake of quality. DA->AD is always going to be a lower quality than keeping it all digital in the box.

You seem to think that the workflow you're talking about is somehow better - as though you're not a real music maker unless you use this one particular method. I disagree. I think what's important is the finished product.

For example, Chromeo never uses a preset for anything. They make every patch on every song from scratch. I love Chromeo. They're great.

But I also love Justice. And they mostly used presets from Cubase and Garageband to make Cross. Is it less awesome? Are they less musicians than Chromeo?

I don't care if they are or not - I like their album, and I like Chromeo's albums. One works one way, the other works another way. But both ways resulted in great music.
Old 4th September 2011
  #13
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shadowfac's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
And I don't see why your so uppity about this - I just wish the tools that I have at my disposal on an iPhone or iPad were also available in my DAWs. And even if I can record samples directly in (which I have done), I would prefer not to have to, if only for the sake of quality. DA->AD is always going to be a lower quality than keeping it all digital in the box.
I apologize if I sounded harsh, which I usually do, especially on the internet where intention does not always come through. Let me see if I can explain myself a little better this time: the tools you want already exist in VST form. Maybe not those exact implementations, but there are similar tools, probably with better quality. Whatever it's being done on iOS has already been done on VST - only the interface is different. You can mention any softsynth available for iPad and I'm sure someone would be able to come up with a similar but better VST softsynth - although maybe not a free one.

The advantage of the iPad is the interface. In order to have a similar interface in a PC you would have to redesing all the software to take advantage of a touch screen, and even in that case, I'm not sure it would be better than a good, well-configured hardware controller.

Anyway, here's your original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
You can buy awesome soft synths for iPhone and iPad for less than $10, but equivalent synth packages as VSTs are over $100.

I want to be able to run them as a VST damnit!

In fact, we need a VST iOS emulator. That would make my day.
You are acknowledging yourself that "equivalent synth packages as VSTs" do exist, but they cost more. Well, sure they do! They're professional tools, while the iOS apps are little more than toys (which does not say anything about the music that can be made with them).

So, the problem doesn't seem to be the lack of tools, but the fact that they're not being nearly given away. Or that if you want to use your current tools, you have to put a bit more effort to make them work within your setup, which brings us to the next point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
You seem to think that the workflow you're talking about is somehow better - as though you're not a real music maker unless you use this one particular method. I disagree. I think what's important is the finished product.
No. I just think that workflow is a tool, as is your DAW and synths. There's no better or worse, only what works or doesn't work for you. If the workflow doesn't work; that is, if you cannot achieve the results you want by following the path you've been following, then you either have to change the path or the tools. You seem to enjoy your tools (iPad + softsynths + whatever), so I'm just suggesting you take another approach to achieve what you want.

You, on the other hand, seem to think that "workflow" means not having to bother with any task you don't want to bother with. But here's the thing: the first word in workflow is work. If you work, then it will flow.

I also agree that what's important is the finished product. But more often than not, that product reflects the amount of work put into it. Take a look into any art: sculptures, paintings, architecture, dancing, singing, acting... you name it. Most well-regarded artists (and I don't mean pop figures) do it because they love it, yes, but also put a lot of money and sweat into it, make sacrifices, and sometimes do whatever it takes to get the job done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus james View Post
For example, Chromeo never uses a preset for anything. They make every patch on every song from scratch. I love Chromeo. They're great.

But I also love Justice. And they mostly used presets from Cubase and Garageband to make Cross. Is it less awesome? Are they less musicians than Chromeo?

I don't care if they are or not - I like their album, and I like Chromeo's albums. One works one way, the other works another way. But both ways resulted in great music.
I don't know either Chromeo or Justice but I'm not even sure what your point is. Do they also complain that cheap software does not allow them to do what they want, and that the software that does is too expensive? Or do they just take the tools at their disposal and try to make some cool music with them?

So, there it is, probably ended sounding harsh again.
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