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pc vs mac... YEAH!!!!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #1
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soultrane's Avatar
pc vs mac... YEAH!!!!

well, i've surrendered my otb quest, and am now looking to beef up my computer rig...

(just so you know, i'm running logic 5.51 on a pentium 4 2.4 mhz machine, to show you how hi-tech i am... and i've produced some hit records on that machine!!!)

i'm not looking for the newest latest uber machine....

however, i want to be able to run about 48 tracks at 96khz, with plug ins, and some vsti's as well....

should i get a dual core mac g5 (2.3 gig) for about $800 bucks and run logic?

or, should i get a 4x pentium pc with a terrabyte hard drive and 4 gigs of ram for under $400)

in other words, how much audio gruntwork will a 5 yr old dual core g5 do?
Old 2nd September 2011
  #2
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Llitsor's Avatar
 



I'd have put this in here: Music computers - Gearslutz.com

But in short, stick to what you know.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #3
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soultrane's Avatar
afraid to put it in there lest i get glossed over with fights between ppl trying to get 460 tracks with 8 plug ins per track...

i have looked at the new logic and it doesn't seem that hard to use, so "sticking with what i know" probably isn't that big of a deal...
Old 2nd September 2011
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Malkit's Avatar
You could always go for the best of both worlds-- assemble a PC with a quad core processor, 3 hard drives (3.5 terabytes of storage) all the bells and whistles, and then port over the Mac OS. All for under 800 dollars. (I believe the kids are calling it "hackintosh")

I haven't looked back.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #5
G5 is dead tech. Get a new intel mac, the fastest and biggest you can afford. Logic 9 is great.



.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #6
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RonGherkins's Avatar
You definitely need an intel mac for future (and current in some cases) compatibility. I think you should go for whatever you're more comfortable making music on. I use both.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #7
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

Ahh I see, so you want to stick with Logic..
If you are interested in Logic 9, then you don't want a G5, as it won't run the latest version of Logic. You need an Intel Mac for that. An Intel Mac will also allow you to run Windows on it, if you want, so you could comfortably run all your old PC software on it too.

The G5's were ok in their day, but I wouldn't want to use one now. Too limited.. Apple stopped supporting them a while back, so the latest OS you can use is 2 generations old.. And they were not that powerful either. Even most modern Mac Minis would leave all of the G5's for dead now.
Intel Macs are so much better supported now.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #8
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soultrane's Avatar
thanks guys...

ok, well, if i have to get an intel mac, now i'm looking at close to $1k used, correct?

i also have a uad card so i will need a pci slot... which means no macbook and (i think) no imac...

(ps not interested in building my own machine... i built the last one... its been rocking for 10 yrs... but i just want to plug and play this time)
Old 2nd September 2011
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post

(ps not interested in building my own machine... i built the last one... its been rocking for 10 yrs... but i just want to plug and play this time)
...there is no such thing as 'plug and play'...'plug and pray' is closer to the truth!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #10
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inthere's Avatar
 

Get a new Mac Mini. Get rid of the UAD card because it'll corner you into buying dated hardware. Ditto for whatever was-hot-then-but-now-POS sound card you're probably attached to. Sound cards are wayyyyyyyyyy better now than 10 years ago, you won't need 96k.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #11
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
Get a new Mac Mini. Get rid of the UAD card because it'll corner you into buying dated hardware. Ditto for whatever was-hot-then-but-now-POS sound card you're probably attached to. Sound cards are wayyyyyyyyyy better now than 10 years ago, you won't need 96k.
no man, i've got a good card that i will be porting over (audiofire 12)...

the thing is, with logic 5.51, the uad card, the audiofire (12x12), some outboard, and a mixing desk, i've gotten very good results and charted some records...

the reason i'm slow to upgrade is because i hate to get on this treadmill... (buy this, but now this won't work anymore, etc...)

i don't want to spend too much money, and i MOS DEF don't want to learn a new daw....

but logic 9 i could get with in a day or two,

so, there are no pci slots in any new mac? and logic 9 won't run on a g5!

yikes!!!!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #12
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post

so, there are no pci slots in any new mac? and logic 9 won't run on a g5!

yikes!!!!
Technically, the latest Logic you can run on a G5 is v9.0.2.. But I don't consider it very stable. V9.1.5 runs great however. But that requires an Intel Mac.

As for PCI slots.. MacPro's have them. But even PCI slots have evolved some over the years, so i'd be very surprised if your old card would work in a late MacPro. Plus MacPro's are quite pricey. But I guess you might find a used one for a decent price. Apples refurb store also has some good deals from time to time. But I still think you'd be pushing that budget quite a way..

Inthere makes a good point. If you are going to upgrade, then upgrade, and accept that some of your old stuff is going to have to be given the elbow. I think you'll miss it less than you think. You could get a lot of mileage out of a MacMini or iMac. And they are not hugely expensive either..
Old 2nd September 2011
  #13
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soultrane's Avatar
man i hate posts like this!

logic 9.02 sucked, but logic 9.15 is great!

logic 5.51 was pretty good, how could they screw it up so badly?!?!?

(now i remember why i never upgraded my computer!!!!)
Old 2nd September 2011
  #14
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

I wouldn't say it was a screw up or that it sucked, as it was useable. It just wasn't as good as it should have been.
No problems now however, because Apple have been pretty good about keeping it updated to iron out problems.

I'd still look at a MacMini. At least you can use your old screen and keyboard etc.. And if you still think you need your uad shenanigans, then there are Firewire options for that now. Uad must have some kind of upgrade program?
Old 2nd September 2011
  #15
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No difference really apart from the high price on the mac side. PC does the job perfectly fine.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #16
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seen-da-sizer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llitsor View Post
Agree: The same way that GS "stars" out certain words, it should not be possible to post a message the contains "PC" and "Mac" at the same time! heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
G5 is dead tech
Agree too: The G5 is too slow, especially when you want to do this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
however, i want to be able to run about 48 tracks at 96khz, with plug ins, and some vsti's as well....
Sorry, the Mac Mini will not cut it either! I use a Mini, but I am only doing Midi sequencing and mastering on the computer. For 48 tracks at 96KHz do this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
Get a new intel mac, the fastest and biggest you can afford.
Or a PC, the fastest and biggest you can afford!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #17
This isn't the first time I hear the latest version of Logic is a lot more stable. I wouldn't know because I was so frustrated with the previews ones that I switched to Live and now I'm never going back.

Don't forget you wont be able to run your VSTs in Logic if you switch to Mac, you gotta make sure everything you need is also available as an Audio unit. You'll probably be better off just putting together a decent PC and keeping your current setup.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #18
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

You have a few options. None are what you
want. So you have to decide which is the
least painful while being the most beneficial
in the long term.

1: Stay with what you have, render/bounce
to increase track count.

GOAL: Stay with Logic
Get a Mac Mini. Drop the UAD, Soundcard...
buy another sound card. But first research
if you can actually get 48 tracks @ 96kHz
in a mini's hard drive. The speed might be
to low.

GOAL: Stay with Logic, Soundcard, UAD, $800
Buy/Build a "hackintosh" with parts
In the USA you'd be violating some sort of law.
In Europe, it's legal. Still, some have expressed
disappointment in people exercising this option
where it's deemed legal. Also, who knows how
long you could upgrade the OS with proper
functionality. And it's not even close to being
plug and play.

GOAL: Stay with Soundcard, UAD, 48 tracks @ 96kHz
Build a PC. Learn a new DAW.
Perhaps Reaper or Pro One Studio
Sequence on your old Mac, record/mix on the
PC.

That's probably the option I'd choose for your
price point. I don't really trust the components
of most $800 off the shelf PCs. I like to choose
my motherboard, ram, hard drives specifically
with music/mixing in mind. Plus you can get
some quiet fans, graphics card, etc for minimal
noise while mixing.

Still won't be $800 with DAW included.

I really don't see you getting a Mac Pro suitable
for what you want... and I don't see me spending
$2,500 - $5,000 on a Mac Pro with the same
power as a $1,600 PC for a couple MacOS only
applications. Generally there are PC versions
or competitors with similar products.

I'd say buck up and build. Put the time in.
How long did your last machine last you?
Can you earn $1000 AFTER TAXES, RENT, FOOD,
UTILITIES in the same time it takes you to research
some parts and assemble?
Old 2nd September 2011
  #19
in the p.c. domain, building is the only way really.

off the shelf can work sometimes, but your gambling. with a build, it's all your custom choices. you know what you put in that machine, you chose it.


and I'm with ya and running the dinosaurs. I'm still on xp 32. no real reason to upgrade honestly.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
 

if you buy a mac don't get a G5. get an intel machine. you can find inexpensive intel machines and they'll be faster and you won't have to deal with compatibility issues with the OS and the various apps.

go intel or don't do mac.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #21
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seen-da-sizer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
go intel or don't do mac.
Best advice! A G5 for $800 is a rip off! They should pay you for taking one instead! heh For the same money you get a Mac Mini that leaves the G5 in the dust. Still the Mini is too slow for getting 48 track at 96KHz in and out of that small/slow HDD. A used 1st generation Aluminum Intel iMac would be the better choice, but even there, disk IO will be a potential bottleneck.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer View Post
Best advice! A G5 for $800 is a rip off! They should pay you for taking one instead! heh For the same money you get a Mac Mini that leaves the G5 in the dust. Still the Mini is too slow for getting 48 track at 96KHz in and out of that small/slow HDD. A used 1st generation Aluminum Intel iMac would be the better choice, but even there, disk IO will be a potential bottleneck.
if you get the server mac mini you can have a 2nd internal HD at 7200 RPM which is a nice speed bump but not sure of track counts. there's the mac benchmark thread with a lot of info.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...hmarktest.html
Old 2nd September 2011
  #23
Gear Head
 

You could always just drop in a new SSD in an older iMac. A lot of tutorials on youtube for this. The prices have really dropped on SSDs in the last year.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanodeano View Post
You could always just drop in a new SSD in an older iMac. A lot of tutorials on youtube for this. The prices have really dropped on SSDs in the last year.
there are a lot of solutions out there for getting an intel mac at a reasonable cost. i saw a 2008 intel macbook pro for $400 because it had a scratch on the case. it was a big scratch but it was just a scratch.

you can find intel mac pros, imacs and laptops all for reasonable prices if you look around a bit.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
My first gen mac pro quad works great with all the new software out there. I never really have any issues. I run at 88.2 and sometimes when I get up to 30 tracks or so I just bounce over my midi or amp sims or I can use the freeze option until I bounce those over. That's one thing I love about Logic is the freeze option and offline bounce, because no matter what model you are on you can still get the job done even if you hit a threshold. I personally would just go for a used 2008 mac pro quad desktop...Shouldn't be too much and would get the job done. Even the one I'm using 2006-2007 will get the job done up to 28 tracks or so at 88.2, with all the plugs and VI you want before you need to use freeze or bounce down midi. If you use less plugs, VI and record at a lower sample rate than 88.2 than even better as far as power goes on the older models.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
thanks guys...

ok, well, if i have to get an intel mac, now i'm looking at close to $1k used, correct?

i also have a uad card so i will need a pci slot... which means no macbook and (i think) no imac...

(ps not interested in building my own machine... i built the last one... its been rocking for 10 yrs... but i just want to plug and play this time)
If you want things to "work" out of the box better spend the cash.... a lot of it... and buy a genuine Mac with enough grunt to do whatever you need it to do.

Yes, it's going to cost money... a fair bit more than a similarly specced "PC".
That's they price it'll cost to remove a great deal of the hassle factor.

The Hackintosh route is definitely do-able but it involves effort and tinkering which appears to be outside the scope of your requirements.

I'd guestimate between 1K and 2K for something usable.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #27
My choice: old mac pro (intel obviously) get the top model in an older range: slower CPU but solid workstation.
A good friend has a mac mini and a mac book pro, and that's nice too, but for me it's the mac pro all the way.
I never bothered with hackingtosh so no opinion about that.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #28
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teknosmoker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
My first gen mac pro quad works great with all the new software out there. I never really have any issues.
As does mine. I feel no real need to upgrade at this point.



-T
Old 3rd September 2011
  #29
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llitsor View Post
Ahh I see, so you want to stick with Logic..
If you are interested in Logic 9, then you don't want a G5, as it won't run the latest version of Logic. You need an Intel Mac for that. An Intel Mac will also allow you to run Windows on it, if you want, so you could comfortably run all your old PC software on it too.

The G5's were ok in their day, but I wouldn't want to use one now. Too limited.. Apple stopped supporting them a while back, so the latest OS you can use is 2 generations old.. And they were not that powerful either. Even most modern Mac Minis would leave all of the G5's for dead now.
Intel Macs are so much better supported now.
I've got 10.5 running on my 8 core G5 and she still cooks along quite nicely. Amazing machine really, though she does have a pretty loud fan. I put her up against a dual core duo PC running at the same gighz (2.5) and she hung with it no problem. I'd still use it as my main music machine if it were't for a handfull of Windows only software plugs I use all the time.

I did notice that when I tried to install Aalto on it I got the "not on this machine" error. So that's sad, but I still can make some fine music on that beast. If you don't mind not having the latest-greatest you could save a lot of money buying one.

48 tracks though... who needs that? Tighten up your production skills and do more with less.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #30
Gear Nut
 
jalguitarman's Avatar
 

I have never used a Mac but I know they have been used a lot for music. I am accustom to windows but have never used it for music. I say this because I am not an expert on which one is the best for music needs.

Ok here is a little food for thought. I am purchasing a computer based set up from Sweetwater sound. I was going to go with a mac pro. I decided against it because from what I was told the latest os wont work with all the software I am buying. They would have had to have installed the previous os to work with one of my software synths so I sad to heck with and went with their most powerful custom built PC with a quad core 8 thread cpu. I am not dissing macs here. I dodn't know enough about them to say they are good, bad or just OK. I do know the situation of the newest os not being compatible with one of my soft synths did not please me at all.
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