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reaper or studio one Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1st September 2011
  #1
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reaper or studio one

So... I'm a person in search of new DAW (long time user of Cubase that was very disappointed with Cubase 6 upgrade)... My two choices are the Reaper and Studio One... So I'm in a need of advice to make my final decision... I'm sure that there are a few die hard users of both here at GS... Please give me ur opinion of why should i go with one or another... I really need ur opinion...

Thanks in advance...
Old 1st September 2011
  #2
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wwjd's Avatar
I'd say try both. You can download and demo both of them to see what works best for you.

Either will require some learning curve.

I went with Reaper for support, functionality, updates, and price in that order.
Old 1st September 2011
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd View Post
I'd say try both. You can download and demo both of them to see what works best for you.

Either will require some learning curve.

I went with Reaper for support, functionality, updates, and price in that order.
yes demoed them both for 17 days by now... Cant save the project with s1 but no problem with Reaper with that... and until u finish one track (at least) u don't really know in's and out's... so like both quite a lot but they quite diffrent... that's why I need the expersts advice... don't want to say no more until I hear form users (if u don't mind)...

Old 1st September 2011
  #4
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Edward Shnapper's Avatar
 

i don't mean to hijack.. don't bother answering if you don't want want.

I'm just curious, as I'm also a long term user of Nuendo. I'm On Nuendo 4 at the moment so i should upgrade soon. What bothered you about Cubase 6?
Old 1st September 2011
  #5
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evosilica's Avatar
 

tried both, went with reaper.
it seems more intuitive for me and it lets me customize things that i don't like.
The routing possibilities and the dry/wet option for every plugin are great features. the price is ridiculously low too.
Old 1st September 2011
  #6
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

I like Reaper, but Studio 1 is friendlier off the two, just less flexible.
Reaper's midi editor is a bit ugly

Ahh if only Reaper had pattern based abilities and a sequence pool like MuLab
Still yet to a find a good DAW with a sequence pool that allows for nested sequences and patterns.
And still allow you to do linear tracks along side
Old 1st September 2011
  #7
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
Ahh if only Reaper had pattern based abilities and a sequence pool like MuLab
Still yet to a find a good DAW with a sequence pool that allows for nested sequences and patterns.
And still allow you to do linear tracks along side
not a DAW, but SEQ24 does all sorts of fun stuffs.
Old 1st September 2011
  #8
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

See with dance music, I like to record drums, bass lines and riffs as sequences, and hold them in a pool, instead of sitting in linear tracks on autoloop that you cut and shape into an arrangement

That way you can play them against each other and get ideas together quickly.

Then use another sequence to play these sequences as an arrangement. So you can have sequences inside other sequences - good for drum and bass type drum sequences
After that I would use some linear tracks to add in effects, hits and solos, and other longer hand played stuff

That's the work flow I used back in the MusicX on Amiga days,
and that's basicly how Muzys aka Mulab works, but it's a bit lightweight compared to Reaper.

Orion is another I'm looking into for pattern based work
I guess Abelton Live can be sorta like that, but I've tried Live a few times, and I can't get my head around it! Reaper is still better for flexibility
Old 1st September 2011
  #9
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

BTW could this be the start of something different on the horizon?

Bitwig | Home

I'm thinking something like this

Quote:
I admire the way Orion is inspired by the TR-808/909 way of saving patterns, how it quickly and easily lets you switch between them, and how you chain them together to make a song. Part of the puzzle is there. But a next generation DAW would have the TR-808/909 pattern selector with each pattern being a PiP - a self-contained project with all VSTi's, VST's, clips, routing saved as a part of it. (So you could eq a drum beat one way (A1), eq it another way and add reverb (A2), then quickly switch between the patterns a la Orion A1,A2).
Old 1st September 2011
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Shnapper View Post
i don't mean to hijack.. don't bother answering if you don't want want.

I'm just curious, as I'm also a long term user of Nuendo. I'm On Nuendo 4 at the moment so i should upgrade soon. What bothered you about Cubase 6?
Well it's a bit of long story... I bought new computer (custom build music machine), pair of new converters and Cubase 6 in the same time as an effort upgrade the studio... Since I have lots of hardware instruments the solid MIDI is very important to me... I could not sync anything to Cubase 6... After 4 beats it would speed up by 10 bpm and stay that way while audio click would stay at 120 the MIDI was going at 130... Got to the point that Steinberg support took over my computer from they office and found nothing wrong with any of the settings... So next 2 weeks I was talking to support of other 2 companies since Steinberg said that it's something wrong with either my computer or my converters... Until my friend showed up and made me install Ableton Live trial which had a perfect MIDI timing... After that any DAW I would try had way better MIDI timing than I ever had using Cubase (even when I thought it was pretty good)... So hence I'm switching... After all the money spent I lost one month of my time to Steinberg that doesn't even let me to return the F***ed up product of theys... Any one who have Cubase problems should know that it's not u, it's them...
Old 3rd September 2011
  #11
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Edward Shnapper's Avatar
 

does cubase 6 still have the select system time stamp option?
Old 5th September 2011
  #12
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
not a DAW, but SEQ24 does all sorts of fun stuffs.
Looks like I found an app that has both pattern and linear based sequencing!
Rax'n'Trax

And a VSTI that does patterns inside anotehr DAW
http://www.sonicbytes.com/era/era.htm
Old 5th September 2011
  #13
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Persemone's Avatar
I own both, but never use Reaper. I admire it plenty, from the FairPlay pricing scheme to the endless customisation, but frankly I find it too configurable to the point where it gets in the way of my music workflow. I've also never found a skin I truly liked, but that's me.

It's cool to like Reaper and cool to bash those who don't... but removing the herd evangelism for a moment, there are plenty of other folks like me who prefer elegant simplicity and ergonomics over endless menus and configurable power.

Bottom line is that I prefer to stare for hours at the GUI of Studio One over any other DAW. I like the single page workflow as much as I liked Tracktion or Logic Studio on my now superseded macs. I love the mastering suite and the hardware integration approach. And, fundamentally, I make more music when I use Studio One than when I use Reaper - isn't that what counts?

My advice would be to retry the demos and see which clicks... If it isn't either then keep looking!
Old 5th September 2011
  #14
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Persemone View Post
It's cool to like Reaper and cool to bash those who don't... but removing the herd evangelism for a moment, there are plenty of other folks like me who prefer elegant simplicity and ergonomics over endless menus and configurable power.

really?

I do own and love Reaper and it is the only DAW I've ever known. So I cant compare it to anything.

Trying to wrap my head around what Persemone said... as far as I understood... reaper was an underdog... and that the vast majority of people used either pro-tools, cubase, logic or ableton

i've never seen anyone bashed for not liking Reaper... in fact.. I've always felt that Reaper users had a deep love for the program and creators(great support) but weren't ever very fervent noise makers on forums about DAW X sucking and Reaper being the only thing worth a damn

i'd even say that elegant simplicity and ergonomics are cornerstones of Reaper... and an endless amount of menus? you are either a liar or you haven't used Reaper

hell.. i haven't even configured anything.. i've always used the stock skin and layout... but now with saveable screen sets that you can switch between (reaper4) with a touch of a key... great for switching between tracking... editing and mixing.. i may just customize it further

i've never even read the reaper manual, just a few glances when i needed something specific and its always been painless to dig deeper into Reaper's abilities. its very intuitive and powerful.. when i learn a new technique and want to try it in reaper.. its almost too easy
Old 5th September 2011
  #15
Oli
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Oli's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
Ahh if only Reaper had pattern based abilities and a sequence pool like MuLab
Still yet to a find a good DAW with a sequence pool that allows for nested sequences and patterns.
And still allow you to do linear tracks along side
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
not a DAW, but SEQ24 does all sorts of fun stuffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
That's the work flow I used back in the MusicX on Amiga days,
and that's basicly how Muzys aka Mulab works, but it's a bit lightweight compared to Reaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
Looks like I found an app that has both pattern and linear based sequencing!
I used Music-X 2 for years. Loved that program. I found it extremely intuitive. Great sequencer. Good MIDI tools. Great for making arrangements. For a while I considered just using it, and exporting MIDI files. i think it works OK with latest WinUAE too. Too much hassle for me though, and I'm already running too many computers. Also, the GUI was a bit of an eye sore.

It took a lot of convincing for me to move to modern DAWs. For a while I tried using Energy-XT as a replacement, but got fed up with it. May look into it again some time, or may just sell my license. It has its good points.

You've given me food for thought with these other options too. Cheers!heh
Old 5th September 2011
  #16
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Persemone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Creep View Post
really?

I do own and love Reaper and it is the only DAW I've ever known. So I cant compare it to anything.

Trying to wrap my head around what Persemone said... as far as I understood... reaper was an underdog... and that the vast majority of people used either pro-tools, cubase, logic or ableton

i've never seen anyone bashed for not liking Reaper... in fact.. I've always felt that Reaper users had a deep love for the program and creators(great support) but weren't ever very fervent noise makers on forums about DAW X sucking and Reaper being the only thing worth a damn

i'd even say that elegant simplicity and ergonomics are cornerstones of Reaper... and an endless amount of menus? you are either a liar or you haven't used Reaper

hell.. i haven't even configured anything.. i've always used the stock skin and layout... but now with saveable screen sets that you can switch between (reaper4) with a touch of a key... great for switching between tracking... editing and mixing.. i may just customize it further

i've never even read the reaper manual, just a few glances when i needed something specific and its always been painless to dig deeper into Reaper's abilities. its very intuitive and powerful.. when i learn a new technique and want to try it in reaper.. its almost too easy
...then we'll agree to disagree on this one. I, unlike you, own both as a fully paid up user, currently versions 4.02/1.65 respectively. They are chalk and cheese in terms of ergonomics.

For an instance of threads getting locked because of Reaper disagreements, sadly look through the KVR history files [where I am a much more established member than over here].

As for multiple submenus in Reaper, I take it you don't use right-click much? Or perhaps more likely, as is often the case, you just - happily - found a DAW that clicked with you right out of the box? In which case, good for you, but be aware of the standard industry disclaimer: Not everyone is you. Not everyone feels the joy of Reaper in the same way you do. Other opinions and DAWs may exist.

To the OP, my advice stands: try them out as best you can, and go with your gut on the DAW that best suits your workflow. There's one out there for you. Try the less well known ones aswell - Orion, MuLab etc. I couldn't get along with Ableton for example, even though it suits my needs on paper well. It's a big decision to change DAW's [having moved from Logic PC to Tracktion to Logic Mac and on to Studio One via Reaper, I empathise entirely]. It's often the little things that make the biggest difference.
Old 5th September 2011
  #17
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of course i right click often, and can't believe this is your menu gripe... and people have different opinions and different workflows... no one is arguing that

i wouldn't ever try to convince people to use reaper over another DAW since I have no experience with anything else

but i will defend the Reaper and its creators.. and provide a contrast to comments of a negative nature that aren't backed up by anything than another's opinion.

i'm not familar with KVR or their over opinionated members that cause threads to be locked.

still thinking about your thoughts on reaper though... you make it sounds like a very tedious ordeal to get things done.. having to go through menus.. oh no.. not menus... should everything on that the program can do be displayed on screen?

i'm not picking a fight. just asking you to back up your opinion with some examples.. that way anyone who hasn't used reaper can get a balanced view. i'm obviously a fan and have no complaints
Old 5th September 2011
  #18
Gear Nut
Get Reaper for general purposes of it is worth the asking price. I have it.
BUT, I am strongly considering getting Studio One. There are just some things about Reaper that are intuitive to me and some things are not. The most type of comments one will hear about Studio One is that it is straightforward. And the new update should be very good; we will have to see. I called Friday and asked what upgrade pricing will be if I go ahead and get current half price version and they told me they should know this week.
There may be some things one would want to do in Reaper and some things in Studio One. I don't really see it as either/or when we are speaking of so low a price for Reaper.
Old 6th September 2011
  #19
I have seen a few horror stories with cubase 6 and must say I am very thankful I have had no issues. I wasnt thrilled with the .3 update, but oh well. Hope you find a daw that neartly as good as cubase because I havn't.
Old 6th September 2011
  #20
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tried Studio One today and oh my, what i nightmare of MIDI sync it has. Studio One and the MPC 2000XL would not stay sync'd at all. i counted beats for 6 seconds and the MPC was rock solid, Studio One drifted like a drunk monkey. 120 than 118 than 114 then 115 then 119 then 121. wow.
Old 6th September 2011
  #21
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Catabolic's Avatar
 

Another happy Reaper user here. I agree with CoolColJ that the MIDI editor is a bit on the clunky side but I don't use it very much. Other than that I don't have any beefs with it. I find it easy to use and it has a lot of flexibility. For example, JS scripting language lets you do some neat things, wish I had more time/inclination to use it. Disclaimer: I don't have Studio One to compare it to.
Old 6th September 2011
  #22
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i've heard a lot about editing midi in reaper, never anything good.

is there something easier than putting notes into a piano roll?

i do put notes in by hand(mouse) sometimes... and that is definitely slower than when i just play the notes myself to a click and then shift the ones that aren't perfectly in time

the only other midi sequencer that has really gotten my attention is Numerology... and that thing seems awesome beyond compare... i've really thought about getting the cheapest Mac needed just to run numerology

so what kind of things do people want to do with midi.. that Reaper either makes tedious or just can't do?

if enough people make their voice heard for features they want... i actually think the guy's behind Reaper would be more than willing to implement if their code or whatever is even capable
Old 6th September 2011
  #23
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had to check out studio one

the reviews @ sweetwater read like they written by anyone but an actual user

but the most incredulous thing.. the reason i had to post and ask if were actually true... is the ONLY difference between the Pro version which costs twice as much as the Artist version the fact that the Pro version can run 3rd party VSTs... and with the artist version.. your stuck with the absolutely subpar **** they include with it?... if this is true... its reason enough to never do more than glance at anything PreSonus's name is on
Old 6th September 2011
  #24
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

Midi editing is fine on Reaper, just that I prefer a different workflow to the Pro Tools emphasis Reaper has

Instead of only having midi data in linear tracks that you have to hack around to arrange, and destroy when you want to redo it.
I want to have some of my sequences sit in a pool that I can play against any other sequence of any length.

Then when I want to arrange it, I call up a track and place "play sequence" items, ie like ghost sequences.

I can have as many of these as I want without destorying the track layout and arrangement of another.
While having linear tracks running along side.

This is how Music X on the Amiga worked, and I did all my early material on it.
After a forced move to the PC I could not find anything like this :(
Old 6th September 2011
  #25
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

that sounds pretty interesting.. but i don't think i can get it fully without experiencing it

i'm definitely open to all different types of sequencing. Expert Sleeper's silent way is definitely going to be my next purchase.. have a lot of CV gear... and the midi to CV processors often choke when too much data is thrown at them
Old 6th September 2011
  #26
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Creep View Post
that sounds pretty interesting.. but i don't think i can get it fully without experiencing it

i'm definitely open to all different types of sequencing. Expert Sleeper's silent way is definitely going to be my next purchase.. have a lot of
CV gear... and the midi to CV processors often choke when too much data is thrown at them
Mulab works like that

When you first load it up your presented with the usual linear type track display, but it's not the case at all under the surface.

Any sequence you record is also stored in an off screen sequence pool.
And it's also displayed in the initial compostion/track screen as recorded, but when you right click on the main window, you can add and
switch to a new compostion/track display screen, then double click on a track to add in any sequence from the pool.
Then adjust the loop length of the part on the top right.

Now when you drag out the end of the part you just added, it will auto loop/repeat to the set loop length for the entire duration of the part
length, regardless of how long the original sequence was - all non destructive.

Contrast this with Reaper, and other linear based DAWs, where anytime you arrange your linear track parts, you have to hack and slice away at all
your data

You can have as many sequences and compositions as you want.
I'm playing around with the free version now.
And I use the initial composition screen as a scratch pad for recording sequences, muting and unmuting as needed, as the sequences loop around on playback get ideas for the song.
I used the included Mu-Synth VSTI for recording the parts



Then I open a new composition screen and then use this to do the a new proper arrangement, totally separate from the original recorded sequences




You don't know how liberating this is! If Reaper had an option of working like this, it would be everything I need!
Old 6th September 2011
  #27
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

i'm definitely interested. going to have to check out the demo when i get some free time
Old 6th September 2011
  #28
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

You can also set a start, loop start and endpoint in the edit window of each part, right click on the top bar, separate from the original sequence - just like samples!
When you exit out back to the main screen, the midi notes displayed on the part, reflect the changes made here. Very cool indeed...


Anyway I put in a request for this in Reaper, you just never know....

Start point and loop points in part editor


changes reflected in the green part - compare it to the original part pic further up
Old 6th September 2011
  #29
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Susceptor's Avatar
 

You do know in 4 you have a thing called 'project bay' that works kinda similar to what you say, right?

To OP: go for S1 if you just want easy and intuitive or for Reaper if you want versatility and customization. It takes a little more time with Reaper, but in the end I think it is the better DAW. Anyway, both are way better than that crap you used to work with.
Old 6th September 2011
  #30
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
You do know in 4 you have a thing called 'project bay' that works kinda similar to what you say, right?

Doesn't work the same way. If you delete a sequence off a track in Reaper it disappears from the Project bay...

Project bay is just a catalogue of all the bits in a Project

edit - although you can flag it to be retained. Still not quite the same workflow
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