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Whose drums do you sample? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 2nd September 2011
  #31
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skyshooter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBeach View Post
Exactly! I program my own stuff and EQ it my own way, it's my music, why would I want portions of it sounding like someone else?
This ^ why use other peoples sounds, when you can make your own up from scratch, get creative do it yourself - it ain't just a home improvment saying!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #32
Gear Head
 
tomf's Avatar
 

The clever thing about deadmau5 is he released a sample library knowing others will buy it trying to make stuff similar to him - thus making him and his sound bigger while everyone else fades away as poor deadmau5 copies.

Smart cookie!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #33
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MoBeach's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by evosilica View Post
I will never understand, why people have a problem with sampling oneshots of records and then refer to drummachines and sample libraries.

either way you're using someone else's work. either way you will probably have to EQ it, tune it and so on to make it fit into your track. And the kick you've sampled off deadmau5 has probably been taken from a sample library anyway.

nobody is talking about ripping off a whole drumbeat. it's about sampling certain elements of many different songs, reworking them, rearranging them .... Imho that's just as creative as using a drum library.


eveything is based on somone elses work. adjusting tune and decay on a 909 BD is not sound design
I use primarily a Boss DR-880 but I write all my beats from the ground up. I never use presets and just change the tempo, add fills then call it mine. Sampling certain elements of many different songs isn't what I would call plagiarism, it just sounds like going through a lot of trouble to write a song heh. To me anyway...

Do you build your own library for each song? or do you sit there and build a large library then go through it at a later time when you decide to write a song? I had a MV-8800 but the sampling thing just wasn't for me and I ended up selling it. It seemed too Hip Hop based for me to work on Rock or Metal with it..

I thought of using the 880 with it using MIDI, but that's a very expensive way to build a beatheh so I just kept the 880 and got rid of the 8800.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #34
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evosilica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBeach View Post
I use primarily a Boss DR-880 but I write all my beats from the ground up. I never use presets and just change the tempo, add fills then call it mine. Sampling certain elements of many different songs isn't what I would call plagiarism, it just sounds like going through a lot of trouble to write a song heh. To me anyway....
I think the thread is about sampling drumsounds. So, no matter if you're programming you own beats on the DR-880, your drumsounds are probably samples or combinations of samples that the machine provides. So it's never really "from scratch" --- everything you do is to some degree based on the work of the engineers that built the 880.
So i think there's not much difference using a kick of a drummachine, a sample library or ripped of another track. Either way you can leave the sound as it is (which is not so creative, but if it fits the song, who cares) or manipulate it to give it your own flavor.

To really make your sounds "from scratch", you would have to record your selfmade drumkit, design and etch your own analog drum-circuits or code your own drum vst. everything else is based on the work of other people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBeach View Post
Do you build your own library for each song? or do you sit there and build a large library then go through it at a later time when you decide to write a song?
The latter. I have some commercial drum sample libraries, some folders with "ripped off" samples and samples from my drummachines. I love my hardware stuff for jamming, but when it comes to composing and mixing i prefer to be itb.
I don't feel like a better musician/producer/whatever when i tweak a custom kickdrum on the machinedrum (which is still based on the sound algorithm created by the elektron software engineers) instead of using a kickdrum sample of another record (that always has to re-EQed and re-tuned a little to fit the song).
Old 2nd September 2011
  #35
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Dumb question:

Why do ppl sample someone else's kick, snare, etc? Isnt that copyright infringement if you ever sell the tune you used the sample on? Isn't this why companies sell drum kits, so you can use their drum samples without violating their copyright?
Old 2nd September 2011
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
Dumb question:

Why do ppl sample someone else's kick, snare, etc? Isnt that copyright infringement if you ever sell the tune you used the sample on? Isn't this why companies sell drum kits, so you can use their drum samples without violating their copyright?
It arguably is infringement, but who cares, honestly? Sampling of all sorts is the backbone of so many varieties of electronic music.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #37
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evosilica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
Dumb question:

Why do ppl sample someone else's kick, snare, etc? Isnt that copyright infringement if you ever sell the tune you used the sample on? Isn't this why companies sell drum kits, so you can use their drum samples without violating their copyright?
Noone will sue you for creative sampling of drumhits, as long as you create your own sound with it.
Btw you're not 100% safe buying sample libraries from companies. There were quite some cases where samples of older records have been spotted.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #38
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MoBeach's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by evosilica View Post
To really make your sounds "from scratch", you would have to record your selfmade drumkit, design and etch your own analog drum-circuits or code your own drum vst. everything else is based on the work of other people.
I also have a Yamaha DTExtreme kit for some real time playing, I'm not a real drummer yet so I use a combo of that and the 880. It makes it sound like a drummer has several different toms and kick drums, ala Mike Portnoy
Old 2nd September 2011
  #39
For the record......
No, very short samples such as individual drum hits are not copyright protected.
Drum loops and performances ARE.

I don't use acoustic style drum hits, but for dance music I use a combination of sources......
A few hits I've sampled off CD (basic 909 type sounds anyway), hits I've sampled myself from classic drum machines, commercial drum sound libraries, and I make drum sounds from scratch using my analog synths.
In a drum groove I rarely (actually never) use all 'ripped off' drum hits, or all 'home made' drum hits.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #40
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no audio loops, no presets...

Sampling people's drum loops that were probably east west loops to begin with seems very unoriginal.

I only use vintage drum machines, newer analog drum machines, and mostly analog synths for all of my drums. That's just me, but I don't want to sound like anyone much less everyone.

peace
Old 3rd September 2011
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thick accent View Post
It arguably is infringement, but who cares, honestly? Sampling of all sorts is the backbone of so many varieties of electronic music.
I care because we live in an excessively litigious society, and if i make a classic i dont want the guy who's snare i sampled taking half the royalties. I could give a **** about the actual fact that im borrowing someone else's sound, though it does seem kinda lame.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #42
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i imagine if you got hold of the drum track from another one bites the dust you would have some incredible samples. Ive always loved the sound of the drums in that song. There was a dl of the separate takes off the tape of that song on the net somewhere
Old 3rd September 2011
  #43
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MoBeach's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
I care because we live in an excessively litigious society, and if i make a classic i dont want the guy who's snare i sampled taking half the royalties. I could give a **** about the actual fact that im borrowing someone else's sound, though it does seem kinda lame.
How would someone know it's their snare? and how would they prove it? If you alter the low mids a tad and add a little compression they couldn't possibly convince a judge it's theirs.

Ministry Of Rock claims to have sampled Ulrich's Black kit, after listening to it myself it would be easy to tweak a Yamaha to sound like that Gretsch with a little editing.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBeach View Post
How would someone know it's their snare? and how would they prove it? If you alter the low mids a tad and add a little compression they couldn't possibly convince a judge it's theirs.
You don't convince the judge, you convince the jury of peers who have no f***ing idea what sound engineering is, and if they hear two snares that sound similar would they be able to tell the difference? For that matter, judges have no specialized training either so could they themselves tell the difference? Obviously, just a snare is not a great example, but whenever you "borrow" something from someone else's work, you leave yourself open...there's a reason copyright law is blowing up my friend
Old 3rd September 2011
  #45
Individual drum hits are NOT protected by copyright.
I'm a drummer who's been sampled without my permission, both for loops and for individual hits.

Quote:
A defense could be that the sample used is so small that the owner of the
copyrighted work does not actually own the segment. The basis for this is the line of the Copyright Act that demands a copyrightable work must “result from a series of...sounds,” implying that a single sound cannot be copyrighted. For example, a drum hit or single guitar note cannot be copyrighted

....End of story....
Old 3rd September 2011
  #46
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J Gabriel's Avatar
 

gotta sample it all

i started using samples from finished tracks almost exclusively once i realized that it resulted in a final product i just couldn't replicate with sample libraries (goldbaby were and still are my go-to for that). tracks that used all sample library drums with ITB processing (PSP plugins, Warmer, etc) just lacked in comparison to the tracks i used samples which i found.

i go for very big production one shots and have found amazing drums in eric prydz, madonna, michael jackson, lady gaga, and so on. then i'll often layer/add my own fx/eq but often they don't need much treatment. obviously i dont add compression much at all unless i'm using a bus and wanna glue em all a bit.

lotsa 80's tracks have good drums/loops to cut up and layer, i like using rhythm from those tracks as a basis then throw on my kick, snare, hat etc just got a great feel to em.

also i noticed a real difference once i stopped sampling mp3 files and used only flac/wav as my source. subtle individually sometimes but for the whole drum track there's no question, at least i noticed a difference enough never to sample mp3 anymore (for drums at least, vox is another question).

I do own several medium grade analog and digital drum machines (roland tr-33,akai xr 10) and have gotten cool results sampling into my asr 10 with some vintage allen and heath eq and summit compression =]
Old 3rd September 2011
  #47
Gear Nut
 
deep_disco's Avatar
 

Old funk records, some bossa nova/jazz records, even some clean stadium rock snares off random ubiquitous tracks.

It's not really infringement or plagiarism in my mind because there's always ways to flip samples and make them sound fresh, tailoring them to your mix. I make a lot of deep house/deep disco where part of the charm exists in the warmth of old vinyl chops put through a hardware sequencer for that crunch.
Old 4th September 2011
  #48
Gear Head
 

Breaks and Tr-808
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