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Should i buy a hardware or software synth? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1st September 2011
  #31
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sftd's Avatar
 

Wait, I just realized this was a troll thread, you got me.


Intelligent people please reread his last post, both on and between the lines. Then factor in the exaggerated "unknowing" to an unnatural degree, and the (of course unbeknownst to him!) inflammatory thread title.

Good job though, because I replied initially as if it were real.

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Old 1st September 2011
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, but... you dumped a top-of-the-line PC after only two years of use? Along with all its software? I'm sorry but I just find that totally wasteful and aberrant. Or maybe you were just being figurative.

I firmly believe that a decent PC can easily last you at least 5 years. Most software can be used in newer PCs as long as the OS supports it (many 10 year old Windows programs still run under Windows 7).
I got about 3 1/2 years out of it, it was 12 years ago so the dates are fuzzy . Which coincidently is what I got out of a PC that just died on me with numerous typical hardware problems. I just think computer hardware and software is fragile junk that frustrates me too much to go any where near my music, ymmv. Anyways, 5 years running and being useful is something I would expect any hardware synth to top. I'd be surprised to see that the majority of people go near 5 years before upgrading their ITB software.

To the OP ... if you'd don't play keys a lot, you might consider a rack where the options are cheap and numerous ... the biggest choice being between sound and fun (analogue) and flexibility (workstation racks from the big 3, particuarly the cheap used ones) .
Old 1st September 2011
  #33
Gear Head
 

yes but the laptop i have just doesnt cut it with omnisphere, i'm talkin many layers of omnisphere. when i lay about 4 or 5 layers of omnisphere, my computer conks out
Old 1st September 2011
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
yes but the laptop i have just doesnt cut it with omnisphere, i'm talkin many layers of omnisphere. when i lay about 4 or 5 layers of omnisphere, my computer conks out
Can't you just bounce or freeze some tracks to audio?

I mean, I'm all for doing it all realtime and whatnot, but if there's a workaround that'll save me $2000, I usually take it (and then spend the $2K in something cool).

In any case, if you decided to buy a hardware synth, you would probably have to record it as audio to do proper ITB mixing.
Old 1st September 2011
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
Thanks mate sorry for asking questions to gain knowledge, in my world thats how i do it.....is it a bad idea to join a forum to learn? <DELETED BY MODERATOR>
Nope, but its bad to create alternate accounts just to troll!


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Old 1st September 2011
  #36
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
Can't you just bounce or freeze some tracks to audio?
yeah i know i was trying to get away from doing that, it does work i do admit...it just takes me away from my flow, i really like to record in midi!
Old 1st September 2011
  #37
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
Nope, but its bad to create alternate accounts just to troll!

ok so i had to look up "trolling", ...yes i am new to forums, i had a few questions that i really needed help with, so i joined and asked.....
I don't know what the bloody ell your talking about with creating alternate accounts.....Please explain!!

I joined a few different forums for the first time a couple of weeks ago, so far i've been telling mates how great they are and how cool is it that people want to help......until you come out with your guns blazing?? WTF
Old 1st September 2011
  #38
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There are several different ways to optimize Omnisphere to squeeze better resource performance out of it.

Just select the Lite button for each patch, or dive deeper into limiting velocity layers, limiting key range or selecting specific notes per patch, and turning off round robin samples on the voices. Just configure duplicate multi patches for performance that you've streamlined. I can keep six layers going along with Maschine and a couple of layers of zebra on a 5 year old 2.0 duocore, so it's not like you don't have the computer power to handle it.
Old 1st September 2011
  #39
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sftd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
ok so i had to look up "trolling", ...yes i am new to forums, i had a few questions that i really needed help with, so i joined and asked.....
I don't know what the bloody ell your talking about with creating alternate accounts.....Please explain!!

I joined a few different forums for the first time a couple of weeks ago, so far i've been telling mates how great they are and how cool is it that people want to help......until you come out with your guns blazing?? WTF
No worries, I've done my part by reporting you, the mods can sort it out from there. Anything else I post is not a valid contribution so that's where I'll leave it.

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Old 1st September 2011
  #40
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
I think you should buy neither. At least not until you try something else.

Wasn't Omnisphere released a few years ago? Isn't an i7 quite a modern, powerful processor? I think your current PC should be perfectly capable of handling the load.

Maybe you should try instead to find out why Omnisphere does not work on your PC? Could it be your DAW latency settings? Or your audio interface drivers - are they updated? Is your OS optimized for realtime audio work?

I don't own Omnisphere, but I have a six year old PC with an AMD Athlon64 X2 4400+ (2.2 GHz, dual core) with 2 Gb in RAM, and I have no problem running a bunch of softsynths and plugin fx in Sonar 7 under Windows Vista 32-bit.
First of all it's ridicuous to think the Omnisphere that came out 3 years ago is the same one that's out now, and no his processor is not up to the task of using Omnisphere the way he uses it. 3-5 instances or "layers" or "tracks" or whatever terms he uses is extreme, but you see many people say they work that way.

Your system could conceiveably run Omnisphere, but it would be a miserable experience no matter how well-tweaked and optimized your daw is.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #41
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by declan32001 View Post
but you see many people say they work that way.

Your system could conceiveably run Omnisphere, but it would be a miserable experience no matter how well-tweaked and optimized your daw is.
Great someone see's my problem, what i really need is a 4.5ghz i7 with an ssd...i'm sure this would be enough?
Old 2nd September 2011
  #42
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sftd View Post
No worries, I've done my part by reporting you, the mods can sort it out from there. Anything else I post is not a valid contribution so that's where I'll leave it.
I still don't know what you are talking about,if you don't want to help me, thats cool, just keep your problems to yourself. What have i done wrong, i'm confused!? If Trolling means to disrupt, or take away from topic of disscusion...you sir are the troll
Old 2nd September 2011
  #43
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
Great someone see's my problem, what i really need is a 4.5ghz i7 with an ssd...i'm sure this would be enough?

I have a i7 930 at 4ghz and using normal 1TB 7200rpm Samsung drives and I have no problems at all.

Most plugins only register under 1% CPU load
Old 2nd September 2011
  #44
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
I have a i7 930 at 4ghz and using normal 1TB 7200rpm Samsung drives and I have no problems at all.

Most plugins only register under 1% CPU load
1%..... wow.....thats all i can say!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #45
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
There are several different ways to optimize Omnisphere to squeeze better resource performance out of it.

Just select the Lite button for each patch, or dive deeper into limiting velocity layers, limiting key range or selecting specific notes per patch, and turning off round robin samples on the voices. Just configure duplicate multi patches for performance that you've streamlined. I can keep six layers going along with Maschine and a couple of layers of zebra on a 5 year old 2.0 duocore, so it's not like you don't have the computer power to handle it.
thats impressive man, i honestly didnt know there was a lite button... omg thanx! that shows how little i use omnisphere!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #46
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
1%..... wow.....thats all i can say!

There you go - granted it isn't a complex project example, but it gives you an idea

The Audio - just trying to emulate my SRE-555
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...yemulation.mp3

screen cap
Old 2nd September 2011
  #47
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No disrespect, but this is facepalm-deserving material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
Great someone see's my problem, what i really need is a 4.5ghz i7 with an ssd...i'm sure this would be enough?
If you want a new computer, then just go buy it. You don't need our permission or approval. But you come here asking questions and when people try to help you (solve your problem without spending money), you dismiss the answers because they're not what you're want. You want us to say that you absolutely *need* to buy a new computer, when you already have two.

Ok, so here it goes. This is gearslutz after all. You need to buy that $3000 PC. There's no way you will be able to make music without it. I'm not even being sarcastic here - if you already know what the right tool for the job is, then it does not make sense not to buy it.

But consider this: Colin says a softsynth averages a 1% CPU load in his 4 GHz i7. I think this should roughly translate to a maximum of 5% on your 1.6 GHz i7. Five instances would be roughly 25%. But this depends on many factors besides the CPU: ram speed, your laptop power configuration (set it to "Best performance"), your DAW of choice, your audio buffer settings (128 or 256 samples should be good enough @ 44100 Hz, at 96KHz I'd suggest 256 or 512 samples), and some other factors. Also, many softsynths (including, apparently, Omnisphere) have a "quality" switch or parameter which allows them to use less resources when used in realtime, but automatically switch to full quality when rendering audio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
thats impressive man, i honestly didnt know there was a lite button... omg thanx! that shows how little i use omnisphere!
I thought you used various instances or layers per song?
Old 2nd September 2011
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
remeber to recap the PC motherboard though

Never skimp on a PC motherboard if you intend to keep it for a long time
I once tried to sell an old PC motherboard, and I had to refund someone, because they noted the bulging caps
Not a surprise since it tends to me on for long periods of time in a hot enviroment
Don't think it was the heat, it was more likely the dreaded cap plague which affected a number of motherboards built in the early 2000's. At the time there were a lot of dodgy caps in circulation which ended up on motherboards with the predictable end result.....

Capacitor plague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I saw a number of HP consumer PC's from this era which basically stopped working (bluescreening, crashes etc) due to the caps bulging and leaking after a couple of years. They could probably have been resurrected by recapping the motherboards but it isn't really worth the time & effort.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #49
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erikdrink's Avatar
Buy hardware! Nice to have it in front of you..
Old 2nd September 2011
  #50
Buy analog hardware, run software for anything digital, it works best this way, and get renoise and skip cubase.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Buy analog hardware, run software for anything digital, it works best this way, and get renoise and skip cubase.
Lolz!!

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Old 3rd September 2011
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
the infinite upgrade spiral will get you. a piece of hardware that works today will work in 20 years. the laptop will be obsolete before i finish typing this sentence.
Depends on the hardware. Because of Apple's jump to Intel and OSX Lion's abandonment of 'Rosetta' emulation, no PowerPC apps will run on new machines, and only software designed for Intel will run.

So I don't count on any piece of hardware with tight software integration to be easily usable 10 years from now, let alone 20. For example, as nice as the Ultranova is (and I do like it) I can't consider it any kind of investment, and I don't expect it to be as usable 6-8 years from now as it is today. If some piece of modern hardware is dependent on mandatory use of a software editor, you know that the software won't be updated years after the hardware is discontinued, and if changes made to an OS break the software then the hardware functionality is reduced, sometimes tremendously so.

A piece of hardware that works today will work in 20 years only if it can stand by itself. But so much additional functionality is affordably available through software that buyers tend to choose today's functionality over tomorrow's usability. That's not good or bad, it just is.

Similarly, 30 years ago people bought film cameras expecting them to be tanks that they could pass down to their kids. But the rise of digital technology (and advantages of sharing, portability, some lower costs etc) made it so that the marketplace there too decided that affordable technology trumps longevity, so nowadays one builds cameras that are expected to be used 10 years (and if they are they're slow and in many ways inferior dinosaurs compared to new stuff costing a fraction of the price), and no one who buys a camera today expects to be using it 10 or 20 years from now.

Jumping on a bit on a tangent: what hardware will be used in 20 years? MIDI and USB might only linger on as 3rd-party legacy dongle-cables that plug into some new port-standard, but I suspect that we'll see new hardware technologies combined with new synthesis advancements, and very possibly a new MIDI-replacement that can handle more synthesis control messages and more performance control parameters blindlingly fast so that new instruments can be controlled in real-time to successfully replace some current traditional instruments as of yet unduplicated. And then some of the hardware that survived 20 years could start gathering dust.

Ultimately, we'll always have techno-lust for vintage gear, and we'll always have boutique manufacturers of such gear -- just like there's still a small devoted fanbase making daguerreotypes, which have their own unique results. But just as we've seen in many other markets and products many of the current hardware curmudgeons of today may end up not caring about the hardware that survived 20 years from now.

Ultimately my point is that right now you should choose what you want to use now, and not bother considering what will survive in 2031. Relatively few people buying gear now will still have that same gear in 20 years by choice, even if the gear could stand on its own. So if you like software buy it and use it and enjoy it, knowing it has a temporary lifespan. And if you like some piece of hardware buy it and use it and enjoy it now, and recognize that it is probably not an investment, it could lose functionality over the years, and even if it doesn't people might now want it in the age of President Gaga.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmata View Post
1%..... wow.....thats all i can say!

Just did a test then, and the highest I get in Omnisphere, with long sustain and lots of notes while playing is 1.7%.
Average is around 1+% . For a a single patch that is

This is in Reaper with separate process for each plugin option used
Old 3rd September 2011
  #54
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I like the part where this guys has JUST discovered the internet and forums, but somehow "WTF" is in his vocab. ...

Trolling? What's that?

Uh, yeah.


-a
Old 3rd September 2011
  #55
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post


If you want a new computer, then just go buy it. You don't need our permission or approval.
ok fair enough i was really just after someone to acknowledge that is was a fast enough system for what i need, but i'l take that...and don't get me wrong i am taking everyones opinion into consideration, i'm definately going to get a cheaper bit of hardware along with a MAC i have figured out i will now purchase. I guess i can handle 256 samples, i usually go 128 obviously for the latency, 512 but, i find the latency gets to slow.
I've had omnisphere for a while but havent used it all that much as the way i use it needs a faster computer, it always ends up in frustration then i don't use it!

If i knew what i wanted i would have bought it already, through everyones comments it's made me realize what i need, so i thank everyone greatly for their input, if it wasn't for this forum, i would have probably rushed out and bought a kronos....I'm a busy guy it's not that i wasn't listening to people or anything, i didn't realise how many people were going to jump onboard, I guess i'm out of my league here and don't feel welcome, i obviously don't understand the culture of forums or something?! I definately won't be asking anymore questions here......I don't like being belittled
Old 3rd September 2011
  #56
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
Just did a test then, and the highest I get in Omnisphere, with long sustain and lots of notes while playing is 1.7%.
Average is around 1+% . For a a single patch that is

This is in Reaper with separate process for each plugin option used
thanx alot for those results, thats pretty good performance, id say i'd get your system dancing up to 25% pretty easily!
Old 3rd September 2011
  #57
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
A piece of hardware that works today will work in 20 years only if it can stand by itself. But so much additional functionality is affordably available through software that buyers tend to choose today's functionality over tomorrow's usability. That's not good or bad, it just is..
If only they could just make a computer that fast and well built that it actually lasted 20 years...sorry i'm just dreamin!....it's like everyday week there is a new computer out thats just that little bit faster! So ya buy it and its old in a few months....thats how they make alloda money!
Old 3rd September 2011
  #58
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
I like the part where this guys has JUST discovered the internet and forums, but somehow "WTF" is in his vocab. ...

Trolling? What's that?

Uh, yeah.


-a
ha ha yes make fun of the noob, come on mate, i'm new to forums not life...i can see the funny side of it i guess but ya mind not trolling my thread
Old 15th September 2011
  #59
I believe If you want to continue the music field professionally, you need a professional workstation at the heart of your rigs and fill the gaps with software synths. Believe me, no software gives you the feeling that the hardware gives and all the music business is about feeling. I have 12 years of experience in music making and I was at the same place that you are now. First I had hardware workstation in 1998 then somewhere around 2005 , the rush of the VSTs made me sell the hardware and go for the total software solution. After struggling with all the PC issues for 5 years which reduced my productivity and creativity, finally In 2010 I bought YAMAHA Motif XF8 and now I use it along with my highest quality VSTs and SONAR X1.

Don't underestimate the role of a professional hardware synth and always remember Computers are not musical instruments. They are tools to help us at what we are doing. As a musician you should always have the real instrument and then get a Computer to help you make better music.
Old 15th September 2011
  #60
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarmad_dehnadi View Post
I believe If you want to continue the music field professionally, you need a professional workstation at the heart of your rigs and fill the gaps with software synths. Believe me, no software gives you the feeling that the hardware gives and all the music business is about feeling. I have 12 years of experience in music making and I was at the same place that you are now. First I had hardware workstation in 1998 then somewhere around 2005 , the rush of the VSTs made me sell the hardware and go for the total software solution. After struggling with all the PC issues for 5 years which reduced my productivity and creativity, finally In 2010 I bought YAMAHA Motif XF8 and now I use it along with my highest quality VSTs and SONAR X1.

Don't underestimate the role of a professional hardware synth and always remember Computers are not musical instruments. They are tools to help us at what we are doing. As a musician you should always have the real instrument and then get a Computer to help you make better music.
I wouldnt just jump into hardware right away. I would buy a good solid computer, interface, monitors, and treatment first before dropping a couple grand on a synth(unless you have all of that already).
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