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Looking for a good and cheap hardware sampler.
Old 6th February 2011
  #1
Looking for a good and cheap hardware sampler.

Hey guys, I'm looking for something to replace the need for VST instruments and such. I'm wanting to go hardware only.

I was wanting to know.....It seems that in the world of audio there are all sorts of low cost gems wating out there from people who are running all computer based sampling and synthing, but I don't know what is good...and cheap.

I've been looking at the Korg Triton rack, akai s6000 and others, but I wasn't sure how good they are in terms of polyphonies storage, ram, ect. I would like for it not to be and unkeep pain. You know, EXTRA hard to find parts.

So what would be your suggestion for around $200-400?

I need to replicate pianos, real sounding strings, bass, possibly real drums, and anything else is a plus.

It doesn't need to actually sequence, I can do that on the computer. Since I've never owned a sampler, I'm not sure how easy it is to incorporate your own samples, but I would like for it to be able to do that as well.

One last thing...Since I will need a lot of instruments at one time(Drums, Bass, Piano, somethingelse) So 4 instruments? I need it to be able to do that, or else I'll be buying two.

Thanks
Old 6th February 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Beermaster's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFX357 View Post
Hey guys, I'm looking for something to replace the need for VST instruments and such. I'm wanting to go hardware only.

I was wanting to know.....It seems that in the world of audio there are all sorts of low cost gems wating out there from people who are running all computer based sampling and synthing, but I don't know what is good...and cheap.

I've been looking at the Korg Triton rack, akai s6000 and others, but I wasn't sure how good they are in terms of polyphonies storage, ram, ect. I would like for it not to be and unkeep pain. You know, EXTRA hard to find parts.

So what would be your suggestion for around $200-400?

I need to replicate pianos, real sounding strings, bass, possibly real drums, and anything else is a plus.

It doesn't need to actually sequence, I can do that on the computer. Since I've never owned a sampler, I'm not sure how easy it is to incorporate your own samples, but I would like for it to be able to do that as well.

One last thing...Since I will need a lot of instruments at one time(Drums, Bass, Piano, somethingelse) So 4 instruments? I need it to be able to do that, or else I'll be buying two.

Thanks

To get the best results from having all four of your desired sounds in one machine you're only options are going to be the Akai Z8 or S6000 since these are the only two that offer .5 Gig RAM .... and to sample the things you've mentioned well you're going to need max Ram....

Both of these machines can handle the multi timbral output ( like nearly all Hardware samplers ) Both have internal IDE drives for storing your library tho the AKAI Z8 do have very unreliable drives so the life span of these units is not great.

What makes you think tha owning a hardware sampler is going to be better for you than using Kontakt 4 ?
Old 6th February 2011
  #3
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Samplers aren't usually combined with sequencers unless you're talking about workstations like the Triton. It comes with a whole load of non-overwritable samples but there's limited room for adding your own and you probably won't get it for your budget.

Polyphony is not really the issue and you don't need to buy several samplers for multiple instruments; that's what multitimbrality is for. You share polyphony and effects over up to 16 timbres: so if you want distortion on the bass and reverb on a piano and there's only one effect to give away you're out of luck unless you have these as external fx and the sampler has separate outputs.

The Akai expects you to load up all samples yourself: it's empty when you switch it on but that means you can use all the space for your own stufff. The Triton only has 96 MB for your own samples but comes with a lot of sounds preloaded.

Frankly my biggest worry would be if you can still find sample libraries if you don't buy a fully loaded Akai.
Old 6th February 2011
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Also you'll want something that can deal with .wav files. If you are used to software you will probably have a hard enough time already when you realize the number of hoops you yave to jump through to get the sampler going. If you buy something too cheap, enjoy your extra purchase of conversion software or edit everything on the machine itself which can be as nice as pulling teeth.

SCSI harddisk and / or cardreader, buying old memory, finding libraries - all things you will have to do or provide if what you buy is not maxed out already when you get it.

Since realistic instruments don't use the synthesis options there's really not much difference between hard/soft except converters, loading times, being a miser with the internal memory, naming/loading/moving things with a jog wheel -- it's not going to be better or faster just because it's hardware because samplers aren't "immediate" devices like knobby analogs are.
Old 6th February 2011
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster View Post
What makes you think tha owning a hardware sampler is going to be better for you than using Kontakt 4 ?

My studio runs on Linux.

I could use the Linux Sampler, which would be beneficial enough, but I don't want any extra load on the Computer. I figured a dedicated hardware sampler would be the solution to my problem.
Old 6th February 2011
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
findletron's Avatar
 

I too think you are criminally insane to want to go back to hardware sampling at this juncture, but if I were also mad I would probablly...

1. buy a good rompler - korg triton, fantom XR maybe
2. buy a sweet hardware sampler (again, YOU'RE NUTS!!! ) ala EMU 5000, or 6400. Love the EMUs and thats what I had before I went ITB for sampling.

good luck, you're gonna need it!

/s
Old 6th February 2011
  #7
Maybe I'm not quite understanding the argument here? What is so bad about hardware samplers?
Old 6th February 2011
  #8
Lives for gear
Get an E-mu IV XT Ultra or any of the other Ultras maxed out to match the IV XT. No hardware sampler gets even close to the warmth of its converters. Fully wav-compatible, with the latest OS (EOS 4.7 - you can download it from several sites, if the sampler you buy doesn't have it) it can even support a 128-gig HD. The only drawback is no USB, but you can get a SCSI CF reader/writer to exchange data to and from your computer. I used to have five of those, now I'm down to the last one (sold the others when they were still worth something), and I'll keep that forever. You can find one on eBay for about $300.
Old 6th February 2011
  #9
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Mr. Varaldo's Avatar
Nothing is "so bad" about hardware samplers, but people are referring to the fact that is much easier and faster to operate on a software one, these days.

There are several known good hardware samplers out there - I personally tend to favor the old Roland S-series - like an S-760 for less than $200 - but you can't go wrong with later series E-mu, Akai, Kurzweil, Yamaha or Ensoniq samplers either.

The main shortcomings of hardware samplers are 1. small RAM size (compared to Kontakt, NN-XT, EXS24 etc) 2. loading times, even from hard-drive/scsi CD-ROM 3. bulky size, scsci cables, connectors, external drives etc. 4. smaller screens than on a computer

Also remember - samplers are "empty shells". Besides the actual unit, you have to buy or make a sample library to get any sound. If you want to buy, you have to actually find it first - which is no easy task since most people that sell used samplers seem to always lose the original libraries, or any they might have acquired. If you want to make one, certainly it is possible to incorporate your own samples - but it takes a lot of time and effort.
Old 6th February 2011
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFX357 View Post
Maybe I'm not quite understanding the argument here? What is so bad about hardware samplers?
Essentially, the main drawback of hardware samplers vis-a-vis soft samplers is the limited RAM and their inability to stream samples.
Old 6th February 2011
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
findletron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFX357 View Post
Maybe I'm not quite understanding the argument here? What is so bad about hardware samplers?
Lots of stuff! yes some of them sound good or have cool filters / modulation options

BUT..

computer monitors, keyboards, and mice and advanced software have enabled great strides in ease of use and overall workflow in terms of samplers. Think you can just drag a WAV, AIF, or even an MP3 into a HW sampler? NO! you have to get a SCSI card, and fire it off that way, or via SMDI. Then when you want to do some basic sculpting, say an ADSR envelope for example, something that visually would be so easy to adjust, you get to do that on a tiny 5 line LCD screen with a scroll wheel.

At this stage, I just dont see a reason for it personally.. hell, just run it off another computer if you have to!

my 2c

/s
Old 6th February 2011
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
It's not that they are bad.

Older machines have proprietary file or disk formats. That means you have to buy extra software to convert, or do everything on the sampler itself. Which is pretty damn tedious because both MESA and the Ak.Sys software don't run on Linux and staring at a tiny screen is not really inspirational.

You do not want to deal with floppy disks. If what you buy doesn't already come with SCSI gear such as a CDRW or harddisk (ZIP drives aren't exactly reliable) you'll have to find something compatible. The last big rack hardware sampler was the Z8 by Akai and at the moment of writing it is 11 years old. Good luck finding something that is compatible and still works.

Oh yeah - while SCSI/IDE CF card readers exist and while they solve the peripheral problem - no extra bulky hardware for what is already bulky hardware - those cost as much as what you'll pay for the sampler itself already.

You want realistic sounds. Virtually all people picking particular hardware samplers do so because the impart a certain character on the sound. Vintage samplers for crunchy beats, analog filters or signature sounds. Realistic instrument emulations don't have use for any of that.

All easyness and speed of workflow that you are used to will get a jolt. Switch sampler and storage on. Wait for boot. Browse to sound on disk. Hit LOAD. Wait. Want another sound? Check if there is enough room left. If so, load and wait.

Want to use your own sounds or those from existing music? Record in sampler and trim to size. By the time you're done naming stuff and assigning it to a key you'll have visited several submenus instead of dragging things to the right spot.

If you just want realistic sounds in hardware for cheap, buy a JV1080 or something and purchase the sampler separately or use your computer for that.

It requires quite a bit of dedication and the reward is mostly there if you design your own sounds. Which applies to several members here, but they knew what they got into.

On the plus side: if it's not to your liking you can probably sell for the same price.
Old 7th February 2011
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Hardware samplers are cheap in general, so if you're going to take the plunge, you might as well get a nice one. I limited my search for HW sampler to Akai S6000 and Z8 because they have USB and a functional software interface which basically allows for drag and drop wav files from windows explorer, graphical editing of envelopes, etc. You’d still want to use the front panel some of the time though.

One correction is the Akai S6000 does not support IDE drives unless you get a SCSI IDE converter and make a little project out of it, I put a CF card in instead of a drive and like it alot.


Old 7th February 2011
  #14
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFX357 View Post
Maybe I'm not quite understanding the argument here? What is so bad about hardware samplers?
It's weird because I agree and disagree. It all depends on what you want.

I don't see the reason of buying a "CD quality" sampler .. unless there is something unique about it.

I do see the point of 12bit/8bit samplers... because are very simple and inspiring... or have a unique tone.

I own

Roland VP-9000
Akai S612
Roland S-50
Yamaha SU-10

and I have a Roland VSR-880 to play all that stuff back.
Old 7th February 2011
  #15
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wakestyle's Avatar
for a few hundered more get the mv-8000 by roland, find good deals easily. Great Roland sound, awesome sequencer and pads, soo many features and reasons to use it standalone and also to use to control other midi devices.

with 40gb room for samples and programs you can hold a truly massive library of sounds - but the included sounds are excellent roland sounds. (import akai and roland, and excellent support from Chickensys Translator)

I bought one for the same reason - to get away from vst drum machines and to get more raw sound. It did not dissapoint, it's a work-station/drum machine/VA synth 16 channels + audio recording + audio phrases + pattern based sequencing (great for live). The best that 16bit sampler's have to offer imho.

maybe akai is good for you also...
Old 7th February 2011
  #16
Here for the gear
A couple of cheap second hand samplers I've come accross are the Emu ESI 4000 and the Ensoniq EPS. I bought both because I wanted 'the sound' of some old samplers in my music.

The Emu came with a SCSI CD drive and a CD wallet full of sample CDs. The Ensoniq came with a shopping bag full of floppy disks! The Ensoniq requires an OS boot up disk to be inserted into the floppy drive each time you power up the instrument. Joy. With the Emu set-up the SCSI drive has to be turned on before or after the sampler is switched on (I can't remember, back to the manual!) otherwise it won't mount. Technical hurdles right from the word go... welcome to the world of hardware samplers!

However, both instruments have a 'sound' of their own and this makes up for the ease of use issue in my mind. But I love to mangle sounds into low-fi montages and I love dance music which is why I like old samplers. If ever I want to make loop based music using high quality (long and/or multi) samples I can promise you I'll be sitting in front of a computer to do it simply for the ease of use factor. I use samplers as an effect and leave all the sequencing and effects routing to protools, my favourite sampler.
Old 7th February 2011
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
stoltz's Avatar
 

if I was to buy into a hardware sampler now (I commited to a yamaha AxK format years ago) I would probly plum for either an akai Z8 or an Emu Xt ultra platinum (or spec'd up to such)

the akai has a whooping 512mb of ram, which is massive for live samples, has an improved filter section (for an akai) & is very modern in features, 32 part multi, 128 ploy, & full USB editing on a computer (makes editing samples easier than onboard, tho this is possible with the healthy screen & detachable front).

personally tho if I was doing more than merely playing back samples, but also turning my head to some serious sound mangling, I would plum for the top of the range Emu E4XT ultra platinum. it only has 128mb of ram compared to the akai, but retains the 32 part, 128 voice polyphony. what makes it REALLY inviting tho are 2 things, the filter section on the last emu samplers was AWSOME! they have the MOST amount of filters available from all the samplers, & could be abused in many ways. the other thing that would draw me in is an upgrade that can found for the other machines, but comes as standard in the platinum, RFX32. basically this adds a whooping 16 stereo multi FX processors (in addition to the 2 onboard as standard). means you can REALLY build some huge sounds in the machine & dam near mix in the box (like on a computer, but on dedicated HW instead)

just for references, I manly use software samplers these days, but also run 2x yamaha A5000 HW samplers (maxed out) for live use. I got into the yamaha back in 2000 with the A3000 (v1) & progressed up to the final fully loaded A5000. reason being is that in the yamaha architecture, EACH sample has its own dedicated Amp env, Filter env, pitch env, filter (choice of 17) 1-band EQ, LFO, & routing through upto 6 stereo FX (96 variations available for each). you can also route & assign midi to basically EVERYTHING, so when working on a single-sample basis, you can create ALOT of sound sculpting with very little source material. I also love the sound of them live (I know them backwards & really know how to coax powerfull live sample back out of them).

good luck with the HW my man
Old 7th February 2011
  #18
Gear Guru
 
Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by findletron View Post
1. buy a good rompler - korg triton, fantom XR maybe
2. buy a sweet hardware sampler (again, YOU'RE NUTS!!! ) ala EMU 5000, or 6400. Love the EMUs and thats what I had before I went ITB for sampling.
This. A rompler works for getting your bread & butter sounds without having to futz about with sample libraries (in spite of their small ROM sizes, a lot of the older ones sound amazing i.e. Proteus FX.) and the EOS line of samplers have great converters for general-purpose sampling.
Old 7th February 2011
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
This. A rompler works for getting your bread & butter sounds without having to futz about with sample libraries (in spite of their small ROM sizes, a lot of the older ones sound amazing i.e. Proteus FX.) and the EOS line of samplers have great converters for general-purpose sampling.

I think the bread and butter is what I'm looking for.
Old 7th February 2011
  #20
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFX357 View Post
I think the bread and butter is what I'm looking for.



Drums are going to be the easiest for you to make and most efficient use of the hardware sampler. As far as making good string and piano patches.... you're going to be in at the deep end with both the cost of making a good set of core samples ( noise free, mic'd correctly, etc ) and the simple task of looping each note for sustain ( remembering that because hardware samplers rely on RAM you don't often have the luxury of letting notes sustain naturally so have to go for looping to reduce memory used ) To get the best sounding set you need to make as many samples per octave and at different velocities to capture more of the instrument's personality... this all takes more memory and more time.

If you have the patience and the time then it could sound good..... but you'd save yourself a world of trouble by using Kontakt 4 instead

Beer.
Old 7th February 2011
  #21
Lives for gear
 
kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFX357 View Post
Hey guys, I'm looking for something to replace the need for VST instruments and such. I'm wanting to go hardware only.

I was wanting to know.....It seems that in the world of audio there are all sorts of low cost gems wating out there from people who are running all computer based sampling and synthing, but I don't know what is good...and cheap.

I've been looking at the Korg Triton rack, akai s6000 and others, but I wasn't sure how good they are in terms of polyphonies storage, ram, ect. I would like for it not to be and unkeep pain. You know, EXTRA hard to find parts.

So what would be your suggestion for around $200-400?

I need to replicate pianos, real sounding strings, bass, possibly real drums, and anything else is a plus.

It doesn't need to actually sequence, I can do that on the computer. Since I've never owned a sampler, I'm not sure how easy it is to incorporate your own samples, but I would like for it to be able to do that as well.

One last thing...Since I will need a lot of instruments at one time(Drums, Bass, Piano, somethingelse) So 4 instruments? I need it to be able to do that, or else I'll be buying two.

Thanks
I asked myself the same questions few months ago. I went for the Korg Microsampler. Its tiny bit above your budget, but I think it worth the extra cash.

Korg MICROSAMPLER | DV247

Microsampler is a quite specific sampler , for very specific needs. I wanted something that is easy and fast to use. Microsample has its disadvantages, like limited memory(34 single samples per bank of a total of around 2 minutes of samples and only 9 available banks), a very limited sequencer and a complete lack of serious factory sounds. But for throwing your own sounds and taking it with you on your sofa or outdoors as it can operates on batteries and it comes with its own keyboard is just brilliant. I love to jam with it from time to time, I have come up with some very nice melodies and sounds. And because it can resample you can use it to build entire songs with ease.

It might be what you are looking for and I highly recommend it for beginners. It also comes with a free excellent software editor, so throwing new samples to it and even editing them , is a breeze.

Sampling Keyboard | Sampler Keyboard | microSAMPLER

Microsample is more of jam along sampler, for those that look for instant inspiration and not a full blown sampler, so make sure you understand the limitation before buying it. It can be used for electronic and accoustic sounds, and plays well with both of them. The sequencer allow for one of th 34 samples to be assigne accross the keyboards where the sample is transposed by note pressed like any other single sample sampler, but of course it also possible to multisample an instrument.

If you are lookin for ready sound, and you only care for playing presets and not making your own samples, them microsampler is not for you. I would advice to go software, as software is extremely difficult to beat as a rompler with GBs of sample libraries. Something like the East West Goliath could fit your needs nicely.



http://www.eastwestsamples.com/detai...?cd_index=1071
Old 7th February 2011
  #22
Gear Addict
 
fengland's Avatar
 

get an s2000 - they're dirt cheap and if you can deal with the tiny screen and proprietary filesystem then you're ready for the hardware sampler world.
Cool that you're using linux for your audio workstation - I'm a linux guy to - I want to get back to using Ardour. Specimen is a nice little sampler for linux too - less of a pain than linuxsampler. Hydrogen is nice too esp. for drums
Old 7th February 2011
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
Hypnocil's Avatar
I use my ESi 32 all the time for percussive samples and it works perfectly for that. I feed new samples into a template containing many different filter, envelope etc settings and keep what sounds good. You can very quickly make one sample go a long way using this method and also get a few nice surprises.

I don't find it any more cumbersome than any of my other hardware synths - but as someone above said, I'd hesitate to try and multisample and loop a string section with it...
Old 8th February 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Kurzweil K2000S keyboard or rack. Comes with a kickass synth section so pianos wouldn't have to be done with samples. Really cheap nowadays for what you get.
Old 8th February 2011
  #25
Jet
Gear Maniac
 
Jet's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
Kurzweil K2000S keyboard or rack.
Yes. Without the S, if you don't need to sample from analog audio.
Old 8th February 2011
  #26
Quote:
By PepsiFX357 - Hey guys, I'm looking for something to replace the need for VST instruments and such. I'm wanting to go hardware only.

I was wanting to know.....It seems that in the world of audio there are all sorts of low cost gems wating out there from people who are running all computer based sampling and synthing, but I don't know what is good...and cheap.

I've been looking at the Korg Triton rack, akai s6000 and others, but I wasn't sure how good they are in terms of polyphonies storage, ram, ect. I would like for it not to be and unkeep pain. You know, EXTRA hard to find parts.

So what would be your suggestion for around $200-400?

I need to replicate pianos, real sounding strings, bass, possibly real drums, and anything else is a plus.

It doesn't need to actually sequence, I can do that on the computer. Since I've never owned a sampler, I'm not sure how easy it is to incorporate your own samples, but I would like for it to be able to do that as well.

One last thing...Since I will need a lot of instruments at one time(Drums, Bass, Piano, somethingelse) So 4 instruments? I need it to be able to do that, or else I'll be buying two.

Thanks
OK, it might not be exactly what you're after, however I thought I'd embed the link anyway respectively, in case you happen to build interest.

! [ Fits your budget ] !

Amazon.com: Akai XR20 Drum Machine: Musical Instruments

regards
Old 8th February 2011
  #27
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilon View Post
Something like the East West Goliath could fit your needs nicely.


I believe Goliath has been OOP for a while. Anyhow, for about the same price, IMHO it makes more sense to buy Kontakt 4. It comes with a 40-gig library, which is of an overall higher standard than Goliath's. Of course for an extra $150 or so you can get the whole Komplete 7 shebang, which might be an even better deal. YMMV, of course.
Old 8th February 2011
  #28
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kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
I believe Goliath has been OOP for a while. Anyhow, for about the same price, IMHO it makes more sense to buy Kontakt 4. It comes with a 40-gig library, which is of an overall higher standard than Goliath's. Of course for an extra $150 or so you can get the whole Komplete 7 shebang, which might be an even better deal. YMMV, of course.
No its not out of production . You can buy it from here.

Quantum Leap Goliath Virtual Instrument - Sounds Online

No Kontakt 4 is definetely not better especially when it comes to orchestral sounds. What Kontant is best at, is being a extremely good sampler.East West are still one of the best companies at recording these kind of sounds.

And yes Komplete is a much better deal. Komplete is near impossible to beat. But if the OP does nto mind the extra cost, I will have to recommend this option as well.

PS. Thanks for droping my intention to KOMPLETE 7 , I missed that update. I am very impressed with the new Reaktor interface, at last it does not look ugly. And Kontakt seems quite enhanced in the GUI department. 90 Gb of sounds, not bad at all and alot of new little machines with some interesting effects. Hmm I might be buying KOMPLETE 7 for myself. Very tempting.
Old 8th February 2011
  #29
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilon View Post
No its not out of production . You can buy it from here.

Quantum Leap Goliath Virtual Instrument - Sounds Online

No Kontakt 4 is definetely not better especially when it comes to orchestral sounds.
Just FYI, Kontakt 4's orchestral sounds actually come from the Vienna Symphony Library.
Old 8th February 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
 
kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Just FYI, Kontakt 4's orchestral sounds actually come from the Vienna Symphony Library.
Kontakt 3 vs. certain libraries

What shines, is not gold. Kontatk is rarely mentioned between people doing purely orchestral music. And that has been so for a very long time, its not only about the sample size.

And even though the last kontakt I tried was version 3 , the demos for K4 sounds very sub par when compared with the sound of the EWSQL silver edition that I have been messing around since 2005. NI claims that K4 was used in AVATAR, but frankly I am one of those people that find the samples of K4 inferior even to those provided by my motif es. I find it very hard to believe that K4 was used for Avatar. But then it may just be me being sceptical. But I promise to give K4 a serious try, maybe things haave changed.
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