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Novation SL as controller for old synths? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 6th November 2014
  #31
Gear Nut
 
Lepper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by major7th View Post
Start a new thread about it if there isn't one.
I'll do that.

Let's shift gears to Roland stuff. I've been trying to dig into the synthesis capabilities of a Roland M-VS1 rompler. Thread here: Help! Struggling with Sysex for a Roland M-VS1 Sound Expansion Module

In the interim I managed to get the NRPN to work, but the patch sysex eludes me. Do you have any advice? Can you see where I'm making my errors?
Old 7th November 2014
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
I'll do that.

Let's shift gears to Roland stuff. I've been trying to dig into the synthesis capabilities of a Roland M-VS1 rompler. Thread here: Help! Struggling with Sysex for a Roland M-VS1 Sound Expansion Module

In the interim I managed to get the NRPN to work, but the patch sysex eludes me. Do you have any advice? Can you see where I'm making my errors?
Based on the manual and your thread, I think that second sysex string you posted should be legit. It's pretty close to the sample they listed in the manual.

Stupid questions: did you enable the synth to receive sysex? Did you set the midi channel of your template/sysex string and the sound you want to change on the unit to the same channel?
Don't throw anything at me!
Old 7th November 2014
  #33
Gear Nut
 
Lepper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by major7th View Post
Based on the manual and your thread, I think that second sysex string you posted should be legit. It's pretty close to the sample they listed in the manual.
I only asked because you made some leaps in the DX7 sysex that I would not have. For example, I would have set the 4th bit of the Function Parameter string as 02 (e.g. Mono/Poly Mode switch would be F0 43 10 02 40 DV F7). You chose 08, and it took me a while to figure out why. So, I thought if maybe, since you had set up the MKS template, you might have some tips for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by major7th View Post
Stupid questions: did you enable the synth to receive sysex? Did you set the midi channel of your template/sysex string and the sound you want to change on the unit to the same channel?
Not stupid. Yes, I have.
Old 7th November 2014
  #34
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GeminIAm's Avatar
Does anyone know if the Novation Launch Control XL ( Novation's LaunchControl XL Has the Faders and Knobs You Need for Ableton, MIDI [Obsessive Review] - Create Digital Music ) would be able to do this? It's almost got as many knobs as the bcr2000! It has midi over usb only though.
Old 8th November 2014
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
I only asked because you made some leaps in the DX7 sysex that I would not have. For example, I would have set the 4th bit of the Function Parameter string as 02 (e.g. Mono/Poly Mode switch would be F0 43 10 02 40 DV F7). You chose 08, and it took me a while to figure out why. So, I thought if maybe, since you had set up the MKS template, you might have some tips for me.



Not stupid. Yes, I have.
Unfortunately, your synth only receives sysex param changes. Otherwise, you could hook it up to MidiOx and watch your sysex messages as you change things from the front panel. That is the most reliable method, but I'm pretty sure I just used the DX's manual to figure out the strings.
Old 8th November 2014
  #36
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Lepper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OktoberStorm View Post
Does anyone know if the Novation Launch Control XL ( Novation's LaunchControl XL Has the Faders and Knobs You Need for Ableton, MIDI [Obsessive Review] - Create Digital Music ) would be able to do this? It's almost got as many knobs as the bcr2000! It has midi over usb only though.
Doesn't look as if it is able to send sysex. MIDI notes and CC#s only.
Old 8th November 2014
  #37
Gear Nut
 
Lepper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by major7th View Post
Unfortunately, your synth only receives sysex param changes. Otherwise, you could hook it up to MidiOx and watch your sysex messages as you change things from the front panel. That is the most reliable method, but I'm pretty sure I just used the DX's manual to figure out the strings.
That's the problem with those 90s Roland modules: almost nothing is accessible via the front panel. Especially given all the creamy features that are apparently hidden under the hood.
Old 8th November 2014
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
That's the problem with those 90s Roland modules: almost nothing is accessible via the front panel. Especially given all the creamy features that are apparently hidden under the hood.
Yours is a noble pursuit, though. Please keep us posted if you make progress.
Old 9th November 2014
  #39
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GeminIAm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
Doesn't look as if it is able to send sysex. MIDI notes and CC#s only.
Bollox. What a shame.
Old 2nd January 2015
  #40
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i can't seem to start a thread...

could we get a Novation Remote Library going as a sticky, for
people willing to share the ones they've done? the Novation
resource is really limited and all about plugins, and the
yahoo groups don't hav much in the file sections.

wanted :
tx81z
tx802
jv1080
casio vz8m ( a tricky one, weird sysex, i think)
Old 22nd January 2015
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
casio vz8m ( a tricky one, weird sysex, i think)
you might be better off just buying a vz10m and editing it from the front panel. i found it quite annoying using an editor with the vz series because i believe the entire patch had to be transmitted every time any change was made and it took too long to make editing practical for most of the patches i was creating.
mini
Old 27th January 2015
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by painterX View Post
i can't seem to start a thread...

could we get a Novation Remote Library going as a sticky, for
people willing to share the ones they've done? the Novation
resource is really limited and all about plugins, and the
yahoo groups don't hav much in the file sections.

wanted :
tx81z
tx802
jv1080
casio vz8m ( a tricky one, weird sysex, i think)
TX802 is floating around here on GS Oldgearguy posted it.
Old 27th January 2015
  #43
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enossified's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by painterX View Post
could we get a Novation Remote Library going as a sticky, for
people willing to share the ones they've done?)
That assumes you can find anyone who has done some

What do you have to donate?
Old 27th January 2015
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
That assumes you can find anyone who has done some

What do you have to donate?
I have done quite a few, and it looks like the mods are working on a patch/template resource area here on GS. Looking forward to it.
Old 27th January 2015
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minime123 View Post
you might be better off just buying a vz10m and editing it from the front panel. i found it quite annoying using an editor with the vz series because i believe the entire patch had to be transmitted every time any change was made and it took too long to make editing practical for most of the patches i was creating.
mini
worked great with the atari, as far as i recall! worth gttng atari
just for the editors.(and the IPS!)
also: i'm ok with the 8m, tbh..besides it was only 60quid just imagine
what 10ms go for now. apparently the 10 has a MIDI latncy issue? is that
true? i used to see them all the time, and the Hohner clone. but hey, 1u
is good for what it has to offer.

yeah, true, i should be offering up! tbh, i'm all packed up atm,
computering around making a synthedit plugin to keep sane.
i did find a few. if you look on th kvr thread, there's mks70,
(although maybe that came from here lol) and just been
given a kawai K1 map+BCR2000. i've listed what i came across.
can someone link me up to the 802 thread please?(if not, i'll
have a go at finding it...)
Old 27th January 2015
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by painterX View Post
can someone link me up to the 802 thread please?(if not, i'll
have a go at finding it...)
802, DX7 template thread
Old 27th January 2015
  #47
Lives for gear
 

absolutely superb, thank YOU!!!!
i've got the TX, nice wee bargain it was. shame he insisted
i have the 2u flightcase as well, and posted it in it. arrrived
near mint, but with a bent rack ear, you see how flimsy those
are. not too bad, but it snapped one of the plastic button
board mounts inside, so i'll have to see how i can fix that up.
other than that, love it to bits. *never* let anyone ship in a
flightcase, even a light one.
i'll be fascinated to see what gives with this. i had a dx100 way
way back as my first FM, and everything has been locked in a
tx81z box since.
excellent.heh
Old 27th January 2015
  #48
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
Automap also has a client map area. I started using 4.8 something on snow leopard recently.
anyhow, it seemed to take a while for the client map area to become populated.
I think it wasn't until I called it from Logic that it got it's act together. it may have
just had to create a folder or preference modification to finally become self aware.
but eventually it did. you know when it's there because the screens read
CC#0 CC#1 across the screen/s on the novation.

in any case, there you have what now look like 127 patches, each with 127 pages
of the front of the particular novation product, Automap is looking at. SL Zero in my case.
each of those pages can be easily setup to hold CC's and notes and key keyboard chains.
you used to be able to have those client pages set (in some general Automap setting page)
to be sending out of the midi out of the SL Zero.
I think you could have them sending over USB as well. but that might have required
some modification to the general preferences of the (Global) page of the SL. (or that's the other way round)
which you have to be careful with, because you could wrongly alter the port
which Automap uses for DAW communication.

i'm not quite sure if anything has been crippled in this regard, on the newer 4.8 X
Automap software, and i'm also not sure what requires an Automap pro license.
I do know they have removed the iOS tool. but anyway, I haven't checked my
custom client templates yet, so I can't say what changed between Automap 3.X and Automap 4.X.
I have templates to drive apps such as RX via key commands etc. navigating iZotope via an SL was great.

note: key commands used to require Automap Pro.
Old 29th January 2015
  #49
Lives for gear
 

painterX, i havent noticed any significant latency issue with the vz10m.
mini
Old 14th October 2015
  #50
Lives for gear
 

thread revival, until i'm pointed to most recent
novation remote/sysex thread..

question:

on the Roland D-110, the partial mutes are all on the
same address, as 'common' tone parameters, like this:

aaaa 0000 to aaaa 1111 (0-15 decimal)

which looks like each bit acts as a switch (untested as yet,
still in the Remote editor)

so how can they be flipped individually to get all possible
partial on/off combinations? can't see it.

http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/D-110_OM.pdf

unfortunately the sysex pages are poor quality. page117
has partial mute @ *5.1 - you can just about read it.
Old 3rd December 2015
  #51
Lives for gear
 

update: i've taken a detour, looking at Ctrlr.
i'll get back on this soon..
(jv1080 would be more interesting,ultimately, since there
doesn't seem to be a remote midi template for it)

i've sussed out this: not immediately obvious, but you can
assign templates to buttons or pads. a template being a
series of *.syx 'pages' - they are linked when you set properties
in the remote editor program -

so if you want a mapping for a huge machine, you don't want,
like, 14 pages. you'd have a nightmare navigating through each
time you want to get from page 1 to page...10, say, because
it just navigates 1 at a time, inc/dec.

it might be better to have groups of 2,3 pages, each saved+loaded
as a separate 'template' - and then you assign these to buttons.
so you could have 3 pages dedicated to 'filter', and call these by hitting
your 'filter' template button. eg: you get around more quickly+reliably.
but you 'only' get 32 user templates on the mk1; the other 8 are factory ROM,
it seems. i got to around 10 pages with the D110 so far. Looking at it in
Ctrlr, messing around dragging stuff around, has provided another look at it,
so i'll see if that helps when i look at the remote again.(i wanted to understand
better the sysex for assigning 'tones' in 'timbres' in the patch mode, and what's
the best way to deal with editing a multi-patch. because you need 3 'save'
functions: tone/timbre/patch. this has got to be what everyone finds
offputting about this machine. offer you a load, and then a-haaa but you
have to figure out how to do it on the front panel controls..(or maybe it
will be disappointing anyway) - the JV looks like it's more worthwhile. not
actually so difficult once it is all laid out. looked at freeware editors:
wmv30.exe (windows midi watch, has randomizing, partial copy, tone copy,
librarian stuff) and ginosoft LAWin which is similar and has a large library of
sounds.

Ctrlr is good once you figure out that you can load a panel into the VST
version, and spit out a locked dll plugin. that's how you deal with all
those panel files, then.. it all looked complicated first time i loaded a panel
into the main program. and i haven't got my noob's D110 panel to send out
sysex, or anything, yet. noted that the Jay-V panel is not strictly speaking
for jv1080 and is missing parameters.

another conclusion i came to: partials can/should be treated in pairs, -of
course. (but it helps in figuring out layout rather than just thinking of
4 independent lines...)

(this, and becoming conversant with midi0x, resigning myself to
sending/recvng sysex via usb-midi cable, etc. plus finding out other
stuff about sysex..)
Old 3rd December 2015
  #52
Gear Nut
 
Lepper's Avatar
I'm currently working on a Mark II template for my recently acquired OB Matrix 6r. Should be done soon...ish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by painterX View Post
(jv1080 would be more interesting,ultimately, since there
doesn't seem to be a remote midi template for it)
I think I have one. I'll check and report back.

Last edited by Lepper; 3rd December 2015 at 05:52 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 3rd December 2015
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Gnalvl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by painterX View Post
i've sussed out this: not immediately obvious, but you can
assign templates to buttons or pads. a template being a
series of *.syx 'pages' - they are linked when you set properties
in the remote editor program -

so if you want a mapping for a huge machine, you don't want,
like, 14 pages. you'd have a nightmare navigating through each
time you want to get from page 1 to page...10, say, because
it just navigates 1 at a time, inc/dec.

it might be better to have groups of 2,3 pages, each saved+loaded
as a separate 'template' - and then you assign these to buttons.
so you could have 3 pages dedicated to 'filter', and call these by hitting
your 'filter' template button. eg: you get around more quickly+reliably.
but you 'only' get 32 user templates on the mk1; the other 8 are factory ROM,
it seems. i
You can do this in the Remote Editor? or Ctrlr?

Another "technique" I've used to make dealing with multi-page templates more manageable is simply to buy multiple Novation Remote units. This might sound "wasteful" but since they are so cheap and available compared to i.e. a Drehbrank or Dtronics, its quite actually practical.

For example, if you are are trying to control a DX7 or similar 6op FM deal, you are pretty much going to need a dedicated page for each operator...meaning you will need at least 6 pages, and toggling between those will be tedious and time consuming. Pair two Remotes and now one can toggle through operators 1-3 while the other toggles through ops 4-6; you've cut your toggling in half. If you are able to fit 3 Remote Zeros in your work space, now each controller only need toggle through two pages.

If you keep your eye out for them on ebay, it can be pretty cheap. I snagged an extra Remote Zero for $60 because it had a crack in the screen blocking the display for one slider that I typically don't need a read out for.

BTW, Roland released free software controllers for the JV series which display the sysex strings for each function. You could just copy and paste these strings directly into a Novation Remote template without any need to decipher hex or sysex implementation.
Old 3rd December 2015
  #54
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abruzzi's Avatar
 

What's the difference/benefits between the mk1 and the mk2 (for the keyboardless zero model)? The Mk1 seems to go pretty cheap ($100-$150) the mk2 is a bit more. I've been wanting to get a programmable hardware editor that can control some of my synths (matrix 6r, tx802, ultraproteus, and maybe even the vz-10m if it supports per-parameter sysex.)
Old 4th December 2015
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
I'm currently working on a Mark II template for my recently acquired OB Matrix 6r. Should be done soon...ish.


I think I have one. I'll check and report back.
that would be a very nice shortcut
-and a nice addition to the list.

i haven't seen anything issued by Roland. where's that,then?
i did find it useful just looking at other maps/panels, to get some
inspiration/visualisation.(rows of plain knobs+faders are not massively
inspiring)

as far as having 2 units, yes, sure...i was thinking how i'd justify
this Remote Zero if i get a keyboard version -which is what i think
i'd prefer from a ergonomic point of view...why not combine
controller+keyboard...ugh? ohwell, gear overkill...it does
run on batteries, doesn't it..?(don't necessarily have to have another
wallwart) - it's a shame they didn't make it *actually* fit in a rack
space: it sort of sits there, but would need some serious re-enclosure
action, to be viably rackable.

v1 vs v2...well i favour the v1 right now, for the two lcd screens; don't
know how i'd use it with less display. it is quite clunky. i think v2 has a lot
more user presets.


>>you assign templates to buttons on the Remote. i hadn't seen that at first,
but it seems to be the answer, for easier navigation.

>>if you are in a hurry for the Casio VZ, get an Atari !VZEdit, it is called.
think it sends edits as complete dumps, not 100% sure. but it does have a
randomizer, and you end up with some complex arpeggiation sounds -(try Steem?)

Last edited by whatever17; 4th December 2015 at 05:05 AM..
Old 4th December 2015
  #56
Lives for gear
 

is this the editor?
JVEdit Download Page


ChangeIt!
http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/C.../ChangeIt.html

and:

http://www.johannes-emmerling.de/xp-30/downloads.htm

Last edited by whatever17; 4th December 2015 at 05:01 AM..
Old 4th December 2015
  #57
Gear Nut
 
Lepper's Avatar
I do have the JV1080 template(s), but I should caution you that I didn't build it. It's not laid out very well and I don't have one, so I have no way to test it. "If you don't have one, why do you have the template?" you may ask. I honestly have no idea. Other templates included on my Remote are a TX81Z (which I also don't have) and various Automap templates. I suspect that they were part of a firmware update I did when I first got it. Regardless, I'll try to dump it and dropbox it for everybody this weekend.
Old 4th December 2015
  #58
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by abruzzi View Post
What's the difference/benefits between the mk1 and the mk2 (for the keyboardless zero model)? The Mk1 seems to go pretty cheap ($100-$150) the mk2 is a bit more. I've been wanting to get a programmable hardware editor that can control some of my synths (matrix 6r, tx802, ultraproteus, and maybe even the vz-10m if it supports per-parameter sysex.)
MK1 has two LCD screens. MK2 has one, but MK2 has touch sensitive controls
so you can just query any controls value, by simply touching the control.
I have MK1. I think MK2 would be better overall than MK1, but one less LCD means that,
at a glance you would only be able to see half the screen info when using MK2.
Old 29th December 2015
  #59
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
I do have the JV1080 template(s), but I should caution you that I didn't build it. It's not laid out very well and I don't have one, so I have no way to test it. "If you don't have one, why do you have the template?" you may ask. I honestly have no idea. Other templates included on my Remote are a TX81Z (which I also don't have) and various Automap templates. I suspect that they were part of a firmware update I did when I first got it. Regardless, I'll try to dump it and dropbox it for everybody this weekend.
any update on this?(please )

have made a lot of progress on a large template for D110 with loads of
linked pages -almost ready for a try-out, at least for Tone Edit. i've got
a couple of questions about the sysex though: in the manual, it says
'timbre temp area' for each part, and you also get Tone temp area for
each..yup, part. - which suggests you could edit the whole thing outside
of Tone memories saved(?) - there isn't just a single voice-edit buffer,
but 8 ? same with Timbre,per channel, in a Patch ?

all have separate offset addresses - so in theory you could have a full
tone+timbre edit going on for each part?! (cue crashing D110)

p118/119:
http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/D-110_OM.pdf
Old 17th March 2016
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
That assumes you can find anyone who has done some

What do you have to donate?
oh ye of LITTLE FAITH... of course i got round to
finishing something! well, this is the v02 test edition, anyway,
fresh-dumped out of the remote following all the checksum
and defaults ajustments, and checks with midi0x to see if
everything is working right. i think i got all the omissions and
anomalies (pls report anything found if you try it)

Remote D-110, full mapping, test edition v02

https://app.box.com/s/nidzifplr7bznlpq1u3zztxdlr4us0ly

quick filter test:(apolz for dodgy seq')
https://app.box.com/s/5a7w8u70pp6ehw9wdxf40azdml6569vr

i've already found some things i'd like to re-arrange. keen to
hear feedback/suggestions. have done a 'D110 sysex' thread.
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