The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Something new from Korg at NAMM 2011? Korg Kronos! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 23rd January 2011
  #421
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
I don't find this kind of thing interesting at all.
So you have this workstation which used to retail for a small fortune ($8K 5 years ago) that's now suddenly for sale in a smaller package - for less than half the price.

Instead of offering just sample-playback and sampling for a workstation of that price, you get a ton of synth engines thrown in, something the other 2 major workstation mfgs have neglected. In other words, it's a synthesizer, not just a rompler.

If that still doesn't convince you: this is interesting because you're probably not going to find a nicer hardware FM synthesizer with that amount of knobs, new heh
Old 23rd January 2011
  #422
Lives for gear
 
NAWAX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73
I don't find this kind of thing interesting at all. Am I alone in this view?!
Old 23rd January 2011
  #423
Lives for gear
 
NAWAX's Avatar
Repackaging is not innovating.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #424
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
That makes surprisingly few synths innovating

If it's just about being interesting; it is to the people who wanted an Oasys but didn't have Oasys-amounts of money.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #425
Lives for gear
 
flat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAWAX View Post
Repackaging is not innovating.
It is if its done for a decent price and offers a great value and features to those who previously couldn't possibly afford it.

The V-Synth was basically a repackaging of existing products. Its still a decent product to some.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #426
Lives for gear
 
NAWAX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer
That makes surprisingly few synths innovating
Sad but true. heh

I understand that people might be interested in the Kronos.
It just don't excite me at all.
Old 24th January 2011
  #427
Lives for gear
 
Dogboy73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
So you have this workstation which used to retail for a small fortune ($8K 5 years ago) that's now suddenly for sale in a smaller package - for less than half the price.
Money aside I don't think I'd be interested in this sort of thing at any price. I just don't get it.

Quote:
Instead of offering just sample-playback and sampling for a workstation of that price, you get a ton of synth engines thrown in, something the other 2 major workstation mfgs have neglected. In other words, it's a synthesizer, not just a rompler.
Sounds like Propellerhead's Reason heh Seriously though, if people want a synthesizer won't they just buy ........ a synthesizer? I'm always a little suspicious of these jack of all trades keyboards. They are apparently all singing and dancing but to me they always look pretty un-interesting with it. They don't look like inspiring devices inspite of their depth. I don't know. I've just never been interested in this kind of thing.
Old 24th January 2011
  #428
To be honest, I don't see it as a jack of all trades.

The sequencer aspect is of little interest - arrogantly/naively, I don't think it will be a patch on Logic anyway.
However, it could be of use as a scratchpad/notepad for ideas on the fly....

The Kronos IS a synthesiser (and a powerful one by the looks of it) first, that has workstation attributes.
It may not be an analogue slut in terms of control surface, but maybe this is the shape of things to come - more in-depth interactive screens....
We had the same argument about 15 years ago when Digital Consoles started to appear...... and it polarised opinion - as this is doing now. Some people like the hands-on approach, others don't.

Either way, not a bad little package compared to the competition - speaking of which, Ebay (uk) now has loads of Fantom Gs, M3s and Motifs up for sale...
I can only draw comparisons as over the last month, I've been watching Ebay like a hawk....

Intriguing.

Last edited by ScoobyDoo555; 24th January 2011 at 09:00 AM.. Reason: spollung ;-)
Old 24th January 2011
  #429
Lives for gear
 
ChristianRock's Avatar
 

I do think it is a sort of a jack of all trades, but for a specific target market.

If someone is currently working on electronic tracks in their bedroom and has an 8-core computer with 16Gb of memory, running Pro Tools and Omnisphere and Komplete 7 and all kinds of soft synths and plugins, and is happy with that, then they're just not the target for Kronos, at all.

Someone who writes music and performs it live, especially someone who has live vocals (i.e. not a DJ), and doesn't want to take a computer+controller on stage - I think for that target market, this workstation is very, very appealing. And that is still how a LOT of music is made nowadays (thankfully).

Have I mentioned I am getting one if it all goes well, hopefully later this year? (but I'm not selling my Fusion, I think they will go very well together in fact)
Old 24th January 2011
  #430
LOL - I meet both of the above requirements....
plus a 3rd one -

someone who has loads of hardware and software but wants to update sound sources.

Dan thumbsup
Old 24th January 2011
  #431
Lives for gear
 
Dogboy73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
And that is still how a LOT of music is made nowadays (thankfully).
Why thankfully?
Old 24th January 2011
  #432
Lives for gear
 
flat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
Why thankfully?
...because deep down, alot of us still prefer hardware solutions, ..and probably always will. thumbsup
Old 24th January 2011
  #433
Nowt wrong with software (it's getting there anyway), but hardware FTW.
Old 24th January 2011
  #434
Lives for gear
 
ChristianRock's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
Why thankfully?
Nothing against DJs playing pre-recorded music (I've gone to clubs plenty of times back in the old days) but I really love to see a singer performing live, along with someone playing an instrument. Which usually means a hardware solution of some kind needs to be present - though not necessarily, of course.


Anyway. That's all I really meant... not dissing on the dont-play-out musicians.
Old 25th January 2011
  #435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Have I mentioned I am getting one if it all goes well, hopefully later this year?
Just make sure you know the history because its likely to repeat itself. Case in point, joke of the day: The workstation formerly known as the Oasys has be renamed to Casys - the "case is ... closed" , get it? Like, the O was marketed as "Open" , right?

I'll paste all the bad O jokes here I can find until we get the EP-1. Just kidding of course ... not.
Old 25th January 2011
  #436
Lives for gear
 
Susceptor's Avatar
 

I stopped caring about HW Workstations long time ago (IMHO inferior for music production compared to a good DAW setup), but can you please explain to me why are they (technologically) evolving so slowly? I mean you still have ONLY 1 GB of usable sample memory when stuff from NI has DFD and can use tons of RAM with 64 bit?

Why the slow development?

LE: to clarify this, the piano has 12GB and plays from the SSD, but they say that your own samples need to play from RAM
LE2: also, a nice performance thingy is the Karma engine, something I don't know to exist in plugin world (correct me if I'm wrong)
Old 25th January 2011
  #437
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
but I really love to see a singer performing live, along with someone playing an instrument.
And given a sufficiently advanced workstation there's no way to tell that they're doing that - after all, the Kronos has a "play" button, too (it just looks cooler).

When someone's playing a DX7 and an acoustic piano rolls out, suspension of disbelief has failed for me (though that never stopped Top Of The Pops).
Old 25th January 2011
  #438
Lives for gear
 
Dogboy73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
...because deep down, alot of us still prefer hardware solutions, ..and probably always will. thumbsup
Ah, I see. Well I'm down with that Whilst the computer is the centre of my modest little set-up I'm more inclined to buy hardware these days. I like the idea that a piece of hardware is just doing a specific job that the computer doesn't have to worry about. Maybe that's another reason I don't like workstations. To much going on in one box? Whatever it is I just don't get them at all. I guess it's horses for courses but I got much, much more excited about the Monotron than I ever could have the Kronos
Old 25th January 2011
  #439
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Have I mentioned I am getting one if it all goes well, hopefully later this year? (but I'm not selling my Fusion, I think they will go very well together in fact)
You should sell the NS5R because you got all that in N1R.

Also ditch the A-80, A-90 and SH-201. You can emulate SH-201 easily on Kronos.

Sample you favorite Fusion presets to Kronos, and dump it too.
Old 25th January 2011
  #440
Lives for gear
 
ChristianRock's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
You should sell the NS5R because you got all that in N1R.

Also ditch the A-80, A-90 and SH-201. You can emulate SH-201 easily on Kronos.

Sample you favorite Fusion presets to Kronos, and dump it too.
Well the NS5R is now on a loan to a friend of mine... I broke the wheel a while back, so I'm not sure I'd get much money for it. You can still edit it, of course, but it's far from mint - it's been used a lot!
A-80, A-90, JV2080, will all go. SH-201 might stay a bit until I get something like a Jupiter-6, but that might be a while... I like having a knobby synth, and I honestly like the sound of the supersaw (and I don't do trance).
The Fusion stays until I'm sure the Kronos can replace it. The one part of the Kronos I'm not so sure about is AL-1. All sounds I've heard so far make me think it's a thin-sounding engine that is beefed up by the Oasys (and Kronos) effects. But I could be wrong.
Also, I have quite a lot of sounds in the Fusion's 40Gb hard drive... given that it's worth 400 dollars or so, I'm not sure it's worth selling... but we'll see
Old 25th January 2011
  #441
Lives for gear
 
Dogboy73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
You can emulate SH-201 easily on Kronos.
You could emulate the SH-201 easily on a mobile phone!! It's rubbish.
Old 25th January 2011
  #442
Lives for gear
 
ChristianRock's Avatar
 

Opinions make the world go round, don't they? One man's trash is another man's treasure.
Old 25th January 2011
  #443
Lives for gear
 
Dogboy73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Opinions make the world go round, don't they? One man's trash is another man's treasure.
Absolutely true & thank heavens for it. But I doubt you'd get many synthsheads having all that much good to say about the SH-201. Apart from how Roland pilaged the 'SH' name from their own classic analogue machines in order to cash in on their continued popularity. I think they fooled about half a dozen people with that one! It's a ghastly machine.
Old 25th January 2011
  #444
Lives for gear
 
flat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
Apart from how Roland pilaged the 'SH' name from their own classic analogue machines in order to cash in on their continued popularity. I think they fooled about half a dozen people with that one! It's a ghastly machine.
Although I didn't get on with the SH-201, it wouldn't call it ghastly.

It was a well thought out little synth with the beginner in mind. I don't think anyone would have used it as a main synth. I can easily see why some people like it. Credit where credits due.

If someone asked me advice on a synth for a beginner, the SH-201 would be one of my first suggestions. thumbsup

It just so happened, for me, as with the JP8000, it sounded plastic and I ended up selling it for that reason only. Imho, even the MS2000/Microkorg sounded better.
Old 25th January 2011
  #445
Lives for gear
 
ChristianRock's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
Absolutely true & thank heavens for it. But I doubt you'd get many synthsheads having all that much good to say about the SH-201. Apart from how Roland pilaged the 'SH' name from their own classic analogue machines in order to cash in on their continued popularity. I think they fooled about half a dozen people with that one! It's a ghastly machine.
Again, that is your opinion. I quite enjoy it. I haven't heard anything that sounds like a Roland supersaw with full control yet (meaning, not the sampled kind that is in the SH-32 or the Gaia).

And my taste does not depends on other people's opinion. In fact, the way I see it, the less people use it, the better for me. But it would not surprise me to find out that a lot of people that think it's unusable, haven't actually used it, or were just turned off by its cheap plastic frame. Hey, people have got to justify spending much more on other VAs...

Anyway, back to Kronos. The AL-1 will be the first thing I'll check out once I get my hands on one, to see how it stacks against other VAs... right after I play that gorgeous grand piano heh
Old 26th January 2011
  #446
Lives for gear
 
Dogboy73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Again, that is your opinion. And my taste does not depend on other people's opinion. In fact, the way I see it, the less people use it, the better for me. But it would not surprise me to find out that a lot of people that think it's unusable, haven't actually used it, or were just turned off by its cheap plastic frame. Hey, people have got to justify spending much more on other VAs.
I demoed one at Sounds Expo in London before it was released, which was enough for me. I agree it's a very well laid out synth & well priced making it a great synth for beginners. But sound wise I think it's talking loud & saying nothing. It just doesn't sound very good at all. The biggest dissapointment for me was the way Roland had used the SH name to promote it as a sort of continuation of the old series! It clearly wasn't this beyond the retro layout & name. This makes it look like Roland just pilaged the name to take advantage of it's heritage. As a result I think whatever people think about the sound of this thing it's reputation has been tarnished somewhat by Roland's spectacular own goal in recognising the heritage of the SH series but nothing else! They of course did the same with the Juno name. These new synths have very little in relation to their vintage cousins beyond the name. So it's no wonder the vintage stuff, that's as old as half the members on this board, still sells for silly money whilst the new SH/Juno synths can be picked up for peanuts. Classics they ain't! If the likes of Roland actually made a synth that was really like those old classics. Well, then that would be really big news & they would have a hit on their hands I'm sure.

Anyway, sorry about hijacking the thread with my Roland whinging! I've got a real bee in my bonnet about the whole SH/Juno thing. I'll get of my soap box now & get back on topic ......... Kronons .......... workstations? Not for me. Don't get it. Give us Monotron Pro
Old 26th January 2011
  #447
Lives for gear
 
flat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
If the likes of Roland actually made a synth that was really like those old classics. Well, then that would be really big news & they would have a hit on their hands I'm sure.
Apart from the company name, they are a very different setup all together these days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
......... Kronons .......... workstations? Not for me. Don't get it. Give us Monotron Pro
thumbsup

As much as I think the Kronos is a great product, this is my main focus of interest. I refuse to believe after the success & interest of the Monotron, they would ignore any future developement.
Old 26th January 2011
  #448
Just as a balancing opinion -

I DON'T see why the MonotronPro will be developed.

Monotron is a VERY basic piece of kit that has only been successful because of its price.
It's cheap and quirky.

IMHO, only a small % of people would want something bigger - bearing in mind the sound it makes.
Sure add on another couple of oscillators and filter types. Maybe some effects.
Oh. You've got another Novation - doesn't sound like an innovative move from Korg (as my understanding of the Gearslutz ethos), more so repetitive.

The price would then hike up to circa $500, putting it into competition with other machines.
My understanding of business accumen, is to either create a niche market, or do something the same, but SO much better that you blow the competition out of the water. Voila Kronos.

It's also not a mass-earner for Korg, therefore whilst amusing, doesn't tick the boxes that the MASS population of equipment buyers may need - it's too focused.

There is some proof of kit that started off small, and got "developed" into something it wasn't. Roland do it all the time heh

However, what *might* work, is the ability to link lots of monotrons together, maybe a "filtertron", and a "VCOTron"......

a mini-modular system. Each item for circa $100. THAT would be interesting.

Of course, all IMHO
Old 26th January 2011
  #449
Lives for gear
 
Dogboy73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
Apart from the company name, they are a very different setup all together these days.
I guess this must be the case. But surely that's an even greater reason why they should'nt be pilaging names like SH & Juno from a bygone era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo555 View Post
I DON'T see why the MonotronPro will be developed. Monotron is a VERY basic piece of kit that has only been successful because of its price. It's cheap and quirky.
I guess the Monotron's success will be the biggest factor in the possibility of further developments along those lines. I think the Monotron has been a success because a) it's cheap b) It's very cool & fun to use c) most importantly it's Korg's first analogue synth for god knows how long. It may not be innovative but it was MASSIVE news in the synth World & it was received very favourably. It's a winner for Korg from this point of view. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

Quote:
IMHO, only a small % of people would want something bigger - bearing in mind the sound it makes. Sure add on another couple of oscillators and filter types. Maybe some effects. Oh. You've got another Novation - doesn't sound like an innovative move from Korg (as my understanding of the Gearslutz ethos), more so repetitive.
I think anyone who's is interested in analogue synths would be EXTREMELY interested if the likes of Korg & Roland made a new analogue synth. I'm thinking more of a synth along the lines of the stuff Moog are still making, not to mention DSI & a whole host of smaller independent companies. A new analoge Roland or Korg aimed to compete with these companies could be an extremely exciting development.

Quote:
The price would then hike up to circa $500, putting it into competition with other machines. My understanding of business accumen, is to either create a niche market, or do something the same, but SO much better that you blow the competition out of the water. Voila Kronos.
Well that all sounds very logical. But then how do you explain the SH-201?! (for example).

Quote:
It's also not a mass-earner for Korg, therefore whilst amusing, doesn't tick the boxes that the MASS population of equipment buyers may need - it's too focused.
I wouldn't know about this. It would be interesting to see how successful it has been for Korg from that perspective. But it could be the big thing that kicks the whole idea into touch if it hasn't ticked all the financial boxes for Korg. I guess this is a very niche market. But I'm looking at it from the point of view of how much the old analogue stuff fetches on fee-bay & the relative success of the companies I mentioned previously (Moog, DSI et al).


Anyhows ...... I've done it again! Gone of topic & started waffling on about something completely different. So .... erm ..... yeah. Kronos! King of the workstations if that is your thang
Old 29th January 2011
  #450
Gear Addict
 
NuSkoolTone's Avatar
 

I am waiting for this machine with Baited Breath. I don't think anyone didn't THINK the OASYS was cool, but it was so expensive there was no reason to entertain the thought. Now it's mature, upgraded, giggable and less than half the price.

I really do NOT understand why people are calling the Kronos the OASYS "Lite". It appears to be FAR more capable in nearly every regard save a few minor changes (Like no drum pads or phantom power).

For those that are claiming you can take your laptop and some plug-ins and have the same thing, I laugh at you! I have NEVER, EVER heard any PC/MAC based softsynth have anyway NEAR the response of hardware. Without the OS handling non-music regarded tasks (Like, say printing for example) and being an embedded solution, something like the KRONOS has WAY less overhead to get in the way. The envelopes are going to be so snappy they'll tear your head off! Even analog guys might be impressed.

Though for argument's sake let's imagine you could get that kind of response out of your DAW. It still will NOT be as FUN or inspiring as the Kronos to play! The Fact that all of this is INTEGRATED together and in some respects intertwined goes FAR BEYOND what VST softsynths can do! The sound design aspect of the Kronos is downright mouth watering.

The only advantage some VST sample libraries could have is Gigabytes and articulations. However size does not ALWAYS equate to better sounds. Let's also not forget, some of those Libraries at the top cost as much if not more than the most expensive Kronos! That said, the KRONOS poses an immense value provided it lives up to the hype. I have a good feeling that it will because even though it's advertised as "All New" in reality it is a mature platform.

From a gigging point of view, yeah SURE go ahead and take your laptop and controller to a gig and try to have anyway NEAR the flexibility or responsiveness of this instrument. If you move quickly and have "On the Fly" sets that have a MAXIMUM of 3-5 seconds between songs like I do, you're gonna be TOAST with that laptop.

Lastly, reliability. Laptops are rather Fragile things. Not that you would go tossing workstations around, they will almost certainly hold up better to the abuse of constant setup and tear down. Additionally, if windows gives you a BSOD or your MAC frowns at you, UH OH! What are you gonna do? Especially if you're the one carrying the song? Go hide in a corner of shame, that's what! Dedicated Workstations rarely ever crash like that, so for bringing this level of tech to the stage, the Kronos is a no-brainer and an exciting one at that!

Now let's hope the sound designers did a good job at showcasing what the Kronos can do, while giving presets that are useful beyond the sales floor to get started with.

Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
champ / Product Alerts older than 2 months
69
tyler477 / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
2
TobyToby / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1
2A Batterie / So much gear, so little time
11
Kaneepa / So much gear, so little time
2

Forum Jump
Forum Jump