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Something new from Korg at NAMM 2011? Korg Kronos! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 19th January 2011
  #391
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EBay is going to be totally swamped with synths, even new ones (XF, Fantoms etc.) Actually a great thing, if you're in the market for anything else than Kronos... heh
Old 19th January 2011
  #392
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tyler477's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
EBay is going to be totally swamped with synths, even new ones (XF, Fantoms etc.) Actually a great thing, if you're in the market for anything else than Kronos... heh
I doubt Kronos is going to make people sell their analogs. If they have analogs in the first place that means they probably don't care for the emulations, which don't even come close as discussed here on the forums before.

The fact that you are hoping the Kronos will flood the market with analogs is proof enough of the demand for vintage instruments.

I think the Kronos is cool, but I just can't justify the price tag knowing the value will decrease so much in the coming years.
Old 19th January 2011
  #393
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Westlaker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler477 View Post
I doubt Kronos is going to make people sell their analogs. If they have analogs in the first place that means they probably don't care for the emulations, which don't even come close as discussed here on the forums before.

The fact that you are hoping the Kronos will flood the market with analogs is proof enough of the demand for vintage instruments..
Dude never mentioned analogs.
Old 19th January 2011
  #394
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Obviously I disagree with you
It's fine to disagree, no problem. But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Hello! You're not the center of the universe, mr. YourDarkness...)
I don't think I insulted YOU PERSONALLY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Don't be so high and lofty to think Korg doesn't know what computers are and what they are capable of doing... if they put this product out, it's because they think it's something people want.
Of course there exist people who want it and might buy it. Hell, if I didn't have a workstation and was looking for one, I'd consider it too. But let's call things with their names here. KORG didn't make a masterpiece, they just put more of everything in this. Some people want specific features and might buy it and that's it. The rest is (I insist) crap marketing on their part.

And no, I didn't say that it's obsolete - I gave my counter arguments, from which it is shown that KRONOS isn't exactly the end-all-be-all workstation or the second coming of Christ. I don't see what's the analogy with the Challenger and I never implied that's it's the masterpiece of analog synths nor that it's a new concept. It's just another synth for me and that's all. Besides, some people have already criticized it, but I never called anyone "YourDarkness" just because they wanted one more LFO in it or something like that. And I really don't know how you came into the conclusion that I consider myself the center of the universe just because I don't like what Korg has added. tutt
Old 19th January 2011
  #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
Dude never mentioned analogs.
Exactly, who said anything about analogs? I was talking about digital workstations, hence my mentioning the Motif and Fantom. And BTW, not looking to buy any of that, in fact I'm thinking of getting rid of my XS and M3 once I acquire the Kronos.
Old 19th January 2011
  #396
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kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
Someone should tell Korg that the concept of workstation is NO LONGER what it was when they came up with the M1 some 20+ years ago.
its not ? since when ?

Quote:
Someone should say to them that workstations have been marginalized by computers (and for a damn good reason) and that not matter how hard they try to stuff 800 features in a single instrument and try to convince us, directly or otherwise, that our other instruments (or the ones we intend to buy) are kinda obsolete... there is already a generic type of instrument that is MUCH more flexible, open-end and customizable and it's called the COMPUTER.
too bad that a computer sucks majorly at being a workstation. Damn there is not even a software that does the job, except maybe REASON. You have to put up with the VST nonesense, DAW 's UI fragmantations and midi controllers that are still in the middle ages or at best with crappy completely unreliable software (REMOTE SL anyone , NI KORE ?)

Analogue being scared by software ? absolutely

VAs being scared by software ? absolutely

Workstations being scared by software ? Not even something to compare to.

Quote:
After all it's all about more, in this case more RAM, more synth engines, more of everything. Not necessarily better but more.
More can better, when motif xs upgraded the 4 layers of es to 8 layers, that definetely show in the quality of piano and some of the accoustic sound. More layers equals to more quality when reproducing velocity. You cant clearly divide quantity form quality , especially when it comes to workstations.

Quote:
What is also pathetic, is the WAY in which the demo was presented, as if Korg invented a really awesome and avant-guard synth.
You know I dont even remember the demo. Its like hating ipad because Apple calls it "magical". I only care for what the machine has to offer.

Quote:
As if none of the things in KRONOS exist elsewhere.
You probably know that thing is not the sum of its parts. Sometimes the package can be more innovative that its feature set.

Quote:
Putting them altogether doesn't make them heroes you know.
Actually they do, because they destroyed any competition in just one move.
Quote:
They have neglected important features, like for instance, improving that archaic sequencer...
Ever used Cubase ? You wont get any more than archaic and backward like this. Everybody is doing it. You are programmer you know that recoding is generally avoided for all short of reasons.

Quote:
Need I remind people here that what actually made the concept of workstation was the on-board sequencer? Or is it that Korg thought that "hey ok, we can't possibly beat Cubase/Logic, so why should give a f7ck?
They know that they cant beat Cubase or Logic, as they know that Cubase and Logic cant beat them.

Quote:
Let's just throw in there 9 engines, (as if they haven't milked those concepts in their various incarnations in Wavestation, Triton, Trinity, Karma, OASYS, practically everything they have made) and just hire for the 100000th time the I-am-starving-for-publicity-and-I-would-like-to-be-in-all-pathetic-synth-advertisments-call-me-Jordan-Rudess and present demos that are so lame that I would hesitate even having them as background music for 80's porn.
9 engines is definetley better than 1. And from what I have seen, and hear they are extremely far from calssified as bad in anyway. I dont like Rudess , but as I said... demos ? who give a **** as you correctly said.

Quote:
Crank the resonance of their mediocre MS-20 emulation and you will hear why it's always about quantity and NOT quality. Crank the resonance on a vintage MS-20 and you will probably need a new roof.
No idea about their emulation no idea about MS-20. Microkorg is the closest I ever came to that. But I would love to hear that "new roof" presets .

Quote:
100.000 note polyphony anyone?heh Of course it's about quantity.
If you are going to sequence 16 track you will going to need a minimum 64 polyphony, so once again whats wrong with quantity ?

Quote:
Well hello we have other instruments here in our studios and we want to use them, thank you very much.
good for you, and so do I ( I am not going to mention Andromeda , I dont want to upset the Karma of Golden Beers, pun intended). I dont expect KRONOS to be the next holy grail. Is there anyone in this thread expecting this ? All synths have their pros and cons , KRONOS is a compromise and a rather good one if you ask me.

Quote:
HD? Are we serious or what? 12 GB of samples on a sampling system whose filter is so crap that it's not even funny? Can you f7cking believe that they still dare to release that monstrosity of a filter in an otherwise High Definition (according to them) system?
Why a sample based system, will need a filter that colorise its sound ? Personally I love the super thin filters on my motif. Sure coloristation on filters makes perfect when you work with simple waveforms, but when one works on samples I think that a neutral filter is far better.

But your milage may vary.
Old 19th January 2011
  #397
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ChristianRock's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
...but I never called anyone "YourDarkness" just because they wanted one more LFO in it or something like that. And I really don't know how you came into the conclusion that I consider myself the center of the universe just because I don't like what Korg has added. tutt
Well, I thought your post was pretty rude and condescending, and the continued use of the word "pathetic" regarding all aspects of this, really makes it seem like you're imposing your opinion on others. Like your opinion is going to make people "see the light" about how "pathetic" Korg and Kronos are.

Also, grow a sense of humor. "YourDarkness" was just a way of saying I don't share your darkness... or your p'd off attitude heh
Old 19th January 2011
  #398
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ChristianRock's Avatar
 

You know, I just realized that the 61-key version of Kronos has the same MAP as the Virus TI2 (also 61 keys). Well, it's 2999 vs 2995 dollars (here in the USA). I'm not saying anything bad about the Virus at all (it's a fantastic synth with a fantastic interface - a totally different type of product), but you gotta think about how much power Korg is putting into the hands of a synth enthusiast for the price point! It's mind-boggling to me!

Oh yes she will be mine...
Old 19th January 2011
  #399
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Diametro's Avatar
 

It's the first workstation since my Fan-X that I'm REALLY excited to demo ...

Even if I love it, I probably won't jump on the bandwagon right away ... but it's nice to be in G.A.S. again ...
Old 19th January 2011
  #400
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

Any $3000 computer you buy today will likely be worth $300 in 10 years.

I've bought enough $3k computers to know.

Buy a $3,000 software package today. Let me know what that is worth
in 10 years. (without upgrading any licenses and paying more $$$)

The Kronos, maybe it'll be worth $1k.

Want an investment?

Buy a Metasonix Wretch. Keep it new in the box.
I bet it'll be worth $6k in 10 years.
Old 19th January 2011
  #401
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haven't checked this thread in a while so i just learned.............another ****ing workstation? lame but not surprised.
Old 19th January 2011
  #402
Gear Nut
 
Tomkeen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estin View Post
haven't checked this thread in a while so i just learned.............another ****ing workstation? lame but not surprised.
Lolwut? There are plenty of non-workstation synths out there, so there's enough choice.
Old 19th January 2011
  #403
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
Something new from Korg at NAMM 2011? Korg Kronos!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estin
haven't checked this thread in a while so i just learned.............another ****ing workstation? lame but not surprised.
It may be marketed as a workstation, but it's more a Roland VSynth type product, IMO. It's the first "workstation" I've ever considered buying.
Old 19th January 2011
  #404
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ChristianRock's Avatar
 

Rich posted this in the Korg Forums today, answering some of the questions they have...

Quote:
RE: Delivery date- We're expecting to ship in the USA in late April.

RE: Drum pattern on sound change- Drum Tracks and KARMA will stop when switching to a different Program or Combi, but without cutting off their note release or effects.

RE: Built-in manual- The HELP button gives you all the documentation for KRONOS, both the the operation and parameter guides, with links to other relevant articles. It's context-sensitive, so chances are it already knows what page you want to see.

RE: Compatibility- With OASYS, It's a one-way street. You can load OASYS .PCG into KRONOS, but not the other way around. M3 .PCG cannot be loaded.

RE: Sequence compatibility- You can load OASYS songs and sequences into KRONOS. If the song contains audio tracks, you need to rename PRELOA_A to PRELOAD_A in Disk Mode, then they should work fine. This is because we now allow longer names in our file system.

RE: Previewing sounds- Programs and Combis can both be previewed in Disk mode, without having to load the banks.

RE: VMT sample playback- The internal 12gb of EXs libraries can be played directly from the internal SSD (with a small amount of information stored in sample RAM), but user samples will need to use sample RAM.

RE: Auto-loading- You can now auto-load .KSC files, including your own samples.

RE: Sample RAM- After loading the entire PRELOAD.KSC, about 273MB are left for user RAM. This is not set in stone, however, since you can pick and choose what you want to use. For example, if you know that you're not going to use the EXS4 Vintage Keyboards library, you can unload it and get more space.

RE: SSD reliability- SSD technology has come so far in such a short amount of time that major computer manufacturers (i.e. Apple) are using them as sock parts on some very popular computers. We, however, are using commercial-grade components, not consumer-grade. In short, we're very confident in the reliability of our drives.

RE: Effects- Additions are present in EP-1, in the form of the SV-1's vintage effects, and the CX-3, where the rotary speaker emulation is built-in without using an effect slot.

RE: Polyphony- Here's the maximum polyphony for each engine:
SGX-1: 100 voices
EP-1: 104 voices
HD-1: 140 voices
AL-1: 80 voices
CX-3: 200 voices
STR-1: 40 voices
MOD-7: 52 voices
MS-20EX: 40 voices
PolysixEX: 180 voices

I misspoke in a few of my demos at NAMM, saying that the MS-20EX was capable of 48 voices. The correct spec is 40 voices. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. So close to a PS-3300...

RE: Customizing a Set List- There are two tabs in Set list mode, "Play" and "Edit." Among other things, the "Edit" tab gives you large Cut, Copy, Insert, and Paste buttons. Just touch a location, touch Cut or Copy, then touch another location, and touch Paste. If you touch Insert, it will move the selected location (and all after it) ahead one space to make room for the new one.

RE: Aftertouch- Yes, KRONOS has pressure-sensitive channel aftertouch on all three keyboard models.

RE: EXs4 Vintage Keyboards- This includes clavs, reed/tine-based EPs, and acoustic pianos with damper and tailpiece.

RE: EXs5 ROM Expansion 2- This includes tape-based keyboards, percussion instruments, drum kits, sound effects, and prepared pianos.

RE: Scales- KRONOS includes per-program settings, including equal temperment, pure major, pure minor, Arabic, Pythagoras, Werkmeister, Kirnberger, Slendro, Pelog, Stretch, User All Notes, and User Octaves (with 16 customizable slots). Some SGX-1 piano types also inherently use stretch tuning.
Hey this is interesting too. I was wondering if EP-1 was just a modeling engine - it sounds too good to be that. Rich says:

Quote:
EP-1 does in fact start with a sample library, but it goes deeper than traditional multisample playback. MDS (Multi-Dimensional Synthesis) lets us separate a sample into different elements- in this case, the pitched content, the hammer sound, and key release noises. We assemble these elements together in a way that gives us precise control over how the sound moves through time.

The practical upsides of MDS are:
1. There's no velocity-switching, so it reacts dynamically throughout the entire velocity range, just like the real instrument naturally would.
2. You have control over physical properties of the instrument, like hammer width and attack brightness.
3. We can control time-based elements like decay and release without having to introduce more processing.
Old 19th January 2011
  #405
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flat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock View Post
Rich posted this in the Korg Forums today, answering some of the questions they have...

I misspoke in a few of my demos at NAMM, saying that the MS-20EX was capable of 48 voices. The correct spec is 40 voices. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. So close to a PS-3300...
Now theres the missing piece of the KLC jigsaw if ever there were one! heh

(...although I'd feel sorry for the poor fellow who was given the task of programming that one)
Old 20th January 2011
  #406
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tyler477's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Exactly, who said anything about analogs? I was talking about digital workstations, hence my mentioning the Motif and Fantom. And BTW, not looking to buy any of that, in fact I'm thinking of getting rid of my XS and M3 once I acquire the Kronos.
doh sorry misread
Old 20th January 2011
  #407
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AcoosticZoo's Avatar
Korg had many fans in the day of the M1/triton due to soft synths being relatively new - and korg won. These fans (or atleast a segment of Korg fans today ) now have DAWS and find synth workstations a little cumbersome to workflow, I for one was hoping that korg would unleash something revolutionary in the lines of Virus TI but explore/develop new synth engines. Hey, if kronos was a softsynth, I'd get it no doubt. 9 engines is great, more is more sometimes.

I can understand why some people are a little dissapointed with the "prepared to be amazed" ended up with Kronos - "workstation".

In terms of Kronos as a workstations - is no doubt a stellar synth.

In terms of relevance for todays DAW users - much of the old and nothing new.

I saw very little about the Kronos being integrated into something Logic, whilst Access Virus TI is all about integration with DAWS. I think the marketing missed an opportunity to sell Kronos as an integrated system by not demoing more about how it runs in todays Modern DAWS.
in a 8 min video. Only 10s refers to kronos being "the most powerful versatile plugin" (7m20s - 7m29s).




Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
Old 20th January 2011
  #408
Gear Maniac
Is the MOD-7 really a replacement for the DX7-mkI?

I heard a lot of comparisons on the internet DX7-mkI vs DX7mkII, TX802 vs FM8. I think that the DX7-mkI is sounding somehow brighter and a little bit rougher then the rest. Yesterday a found a comparison between TX816 vs Oasys and I chose the TX816 by hearing.

Thus my question, will the MOD-7 be more like the FM8 or be more like the DX7-mkI? Technical perfection is not always what people love.
Old 20th January 2011
  #409
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Westlaker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebo View Post
Thus my question, will the MOD-7 be more like the FM8 or be more like the DX7-mkI?
I can't answer that specific question, but I can tell you this: the MOD-7 can load DX-7 patches. Whether they are then reproduced perfectly I don't know, but the Oasys crowd implies that they are. So, in addition to everything else, you're probably also getting, in effect, a DX-7 inside your Kronos.

TEN synth engines?
Old 23rd January 2011
  #410
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

Korg 'KRONOS'. What do you think ?

Hi,

What do you think about the new Korg 'KRONOS' workstation so far ?

I'm aware that it's not officially released, and won't ship for a few more months, I read that it would begin shipping in April. There are a few other threads on this forum, discussing the KRONOS as well, but I don't see it in this section of the forum.

It would be very interesting to read your comments/opinions about the KRONOS, also, if anyone attended the KORG presentation (LIVE) not on Youtube heh . It would be very helpful to know what was your first impression about the KRONOS's sounds, not just Pianos, but all the other acoustic sounds, Synth sounds, Drum Kits, Pads, ....etc. etc.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Old 23rd January 2011
  #411
Gear Maniac
 

Seems very impressive....like Oasys lite. Not sure if it lacks an arpeggiator like the M3.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #412
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DarkPlasma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by casiosk1 View Post
Not sure if it lacks an arpeggiator like the M3.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #413
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jbuonacc's Avatar
overall, it seems completely awesome.

Old 23rd January 2011
  #414
Deleted 46dc28f
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Korg 'KRONOS'. What do you think ?

I'd buy one if there was a rackable desktop model.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #415
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

I would like to add the KORG flavor to my HW-keyboard setup = (Yamaha Motif XS7, soon upgrading to Motif XF7, and I also use the Access Virus Ti Keyboard). I figure the KRONOS will be a great workstation to add.

But... I'm also impressed by the new Korg PA3X Arranger. Although I have never owned an Arranger keyboard. but, the PA3X seems to have a lot on offer, even if I did not use it as an arranger, but rather for its great sounding acoustic sounds ! I find the acoustic sounds in arrangers usually much better than their counterparts in Workstations. (I wonder why they always do that ?) This is always true with Korg, Roland, Yamaha arrangers. I wonder if this will hold true again with the PA3X and KRONOS ? Especially when you consider the large SSD based sample based sounds that the KRONOS can store.

I guess I will just have to wait until I can get a chance to play both the KRONOS, and PA3X, to answer my own curiosity, and eventually choose the right one.

What do you think about the PA3X, compared to KRONOS from a purely sonic perspective, I know they are very different to compare, but sound wise ? what do you think ? Speculations are welcome heh

Old 23rd January 2011
  #416
Hi

Does look like a fun machine to play with, but tbh... as the old saying goes... You can't judge a book by its cover. I'd have to play with the field settings and feel the K.B under my finger tips, to be able to give thought feedback., respectively.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #417
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Diametro's Avatar
 

There are two synths I'm buying this year: Jupiter-4 and Kronos ...
Old 23rd January 2011
  #418
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Dogboy73's Avatar
 

I don't find this kind of thing interesting at all. Am I alone in this view?! I guess I find these kind of workstation behemoths somewhat intimidating. They don't look very friendly to me
Old 23rd January 2011
  #419
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 View Post
I don't find this kind of thing interesting at all. Am I alone in this view?!
No, you are not.thumbsup
Old 23rd January 2011
  #420
Gear Addict
Yes, the arp. issue is one of the reasons I'm thinking of getting the XF rather than kronos. The XF has 4 arps that are programmable on the keyboard. I like to program my own rigid patterns rather than have KARMA randomly produce patterns for me. If I'm not mistaken, you can't produce your own patterns on the Kronos since there is no standard arp that can be edited?

I need my patterns to be stable and predictable.. It seems Karma will produce constant random changes and countless parameters. I want to directly form my own repetitive patterns that change with chord changes. I don't want Karma composing for me with random fluctuations that I don't want. Can I get this with Kronos or is the XF for me?

The other questions is:

The guitar samples, how good are they compared to the XF?

The vintage Synth samples, how good are they?

How does the sound engine parameters and filter quality compare with the Yamaha?

On several forums there is someone called Kday and mcallister who are saying that Korg is much thinner than Yamaha, and that the samples are terrible on the Kronos due to worse filters and bad a/d quality... is he right?
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