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Loop Libraries. Who really uses them? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 28th December 2010
  #1
Gear Nut
 
KrisMiller's Avatar
 

Loop Libraries. Who really uses them?

Do producers like Armin Van Buuren, Tiesto, Oakenfold, Deadmou5 heck even the big time hip hop guys really use them? If so, what are the best libraries? I'm a soft synth geek & have tons of drum libraries but really have never gone for the loop libraries... Happy Holidays Slutz!!!!!
Old 28th December 2010
  #2
Yep some do, those FM dvds are a good insight into many of their methods. At the end of the day does it really matter, its the end result that counts, is it not.

Just go onto Loopmasters and see/hear for yourself.


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Old 28th December 2010
  #3
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I'll use a hihat/tamb/shaker loop to get things started and form some kind of foundation...at the end of the mix/track that loop bed could be either chopped up to add more variation or removed entirely once I have my original elements working nicely..
Old 28th December 2010
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekohler View Post
I'll use a hihat/tamb/shaker loop to get things started and form some kind of foundation...at the end of the mix/track that loop bed could be either chopped up to add more variation or removed entirely once I have my original elements working nicely..
I'm guilty of this, too, but just as often tend to tell Live to slice to MIDI and then go to town on it with all sorts of effects, rearranging of the MIDI, slice again, etc etc until I like the result. I love feeding Live loops in this way :D
Old 28th December 2010
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
Ericdestler's Avatar
 

Loops

Vengeance series of House Essentials and Electro shock are great as well as anything from Mutekki. You can hear it in 50% of todays mainstream house production.
Old 28th December 2010
  #6
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peachboy's Avatar
 

I have a few ethnic loop DVDs...South American, Japanese ethnic drums etc.....things like that. As for actual EDM conventional beats, no, I try to stay well clear of 'em.
Old 28th December 2010
  #7
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

I used to when I first started... for the first 5 years. Started 17 years ago.
Certain things can be done with loops that can't be done as easily with
individual sounds.

Now I create my own loops, render down.
Old 28th December 2010
  #8
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

Many more things cannot be reproduced with single hits and that only sound the best with live loops.

Hire three drummers to play the same beat and they'll all have their own individual vibe and slant on that same groove. This difference is minimal and almost undecipherable but it is the crucial bit of magic that makes each player individual.

The reason I and my fellow media writers have large collections of loops in RMX format is that loops have a big role to play. That's not to say that they're the be all and everything but they are the closest thing to hiring a real drummer when the time and the money doesn't stretch to it.
Old 28th December 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericdestler View Post
Vengeance series of House Essentials and Electro shock are great as well as anything from Mutekki. You can hear it in 50% of todays mainstream house production.
Isn't that (at least in part) because they create their libraries by chopping unlicensed loops from commercial releases?
Possibly they've changed their ways... but I believe they used to do this.


Saying that, was it a Muteki library that some producer made an entire track from nothing but the pre-made loops library & got it to number 1 in the pop-house charts? Lol.
Old 28th December 2010
  #10
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Mardi Gras's Avatar
 

i use loads of shaker, bongo and tambourine loops.

Would be interested in a good loop pack that has some nice high hat loops?
Old 28th December 2010
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Isn't that (at least in part) because they create their libraries by chopping unlicensed loops from commercial releases?
Possibly they've changed their ways... but I believe they used to do this.


Saying that, was it a Muteki library that some producer made an entire track from nothing but the pre-made loops library & got it to number 1 in the pop-house charts? Lol.
Steve Angelo, but for all we know he made the song and licensed the loops to Muteki :D
Old 29th December 2010
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekohler View Post
Steve Angelo, but for all we know he made the song and licensed the loops to Muteki :D
That is a good point.
Old 29th December 2010
  #13
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These pre cut loops are amazing - as soon as you see a pack for a genre/soundset you're working in, you know it's time to ditch it because it's no longer the forward thinking vision of future music you once believe in. Indeed, it's so lumbered with the weight of its own hype and bull**** that a half decent example can be thrown together out of loops cut for the purpose. In fact you are so far from the cutting edge, that you can now outsource about 50% of the creativity and a lot of joy of making music so you can go right ahead and get on down to the real business of vainly hoping that you might end up as the next overpaid ****** on the front of some ****ty electronic music magasine, meanwhile constructing a massive mousehead, with eyes that flash in time to your music. Ace. heh

Having said that I think percussion loops can be really useful. However I find sampling from my own record collection gives better results and is more satisfying.
Old 29th December 2010
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarkovsky View Post
these pre cut loops are amazing - as soon as you see a pack for a genre/soundset you're working in, you know it's time to ditch it...

lol


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Old 29th December 2010
  #15
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Ericdestler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Isn't that (at least in part) because they create their libraries by chopping unlicensed loops from commercial releases?
Possibly they've changed their ways... but I believe they used to do this.


Saying that, was it a Muteki library that some producer made an entire track from nothing but the pre-made loops library & got it to number 1 in the pop-house charts? Lol.
if this was the case, if he paid for the samples and the track sounds good, i really don't care.
I don't use loops of any kind actually, i just said Vengeance and Mutekki loops are sounding fine to me as somebody asked. I use their single drum samples from the libraries occasionally.
Manuel Schleis has a bunch of his own commercial releases, he chopped samples from them for sure as you can hear : http://de.djtunes.com/spencer-hill/the-funky-years
don't know about the rest.
Old 29th December 2010
  #16
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericdestler View Post
if this was the case, if he paid for the samples and the track sounds good, i really don't care.
I don't use loops of any kind actually, i just said Vengeance and Mutekki loops are sounding fine to me as somebody asked. I use their single drum samples from the libraries occasionally.
Manuel Schleis has a bunch of his own commercial releases, he chopped samples from them for sure as you can hear : 'The Funky Years' von Spencer & Hill
don't know about the rest.
Sorry; my wording wasn't clear...

My point was supposed to be:

One reason that you can hear Vengeance loops in commercial music, is because Vengeance get hold of released tracks, and steal entire loops from their intro beats, without permission.
Or at least they used to.


.... BUT, then I went on to counter my own point, by saying that, conversely, a recent successful tune was made by some dude who ONLY used Vengeance loops.
Old 29th December 2010
  #17
Gear Addict
 
Funk Fiction's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
These pre cut loops are amazing - as soon as you see a pack for a genre/soundset you're working in, you know it's time to ditch it because it's no longer the forward thinking vision of future music you once believe in. Indeed, it's so lumbered with the weight of its own hype and bull**** that a half decent example can be thrown together out of loops cut for the purpose. In fact you are so far from the cutting edge, that you can now outsource about 50% of the creativity and a lot of joy of making music so you can go right ahead and get on down to the real business of vainly hoping that you might end up as the next overpaid ****** on the front of some ****ty electronic music magasine, meanwhile constructing a massive mousehead, with eyes that flash in time to your music. Ace. heh

Having said that I think percussion loops can be really useful. However I find sampling from my own record collection gives better results and is more satisfying.
Ha, that was a fun read! Great deliberate over analyzation with comic sense of humor. Plus the points are undeniable.

Anyway, loops can sometimes be an appropriate part of composition I've discovered, but it's a rarity. Yes, the shaker/tambourine/conga loop can be a great propelling device that leads to more inspiration. Or maybe there's a great "hit/stab" type sound in the loop and you just wanna chop and use that. Any and everything can be turned into something useful. So to answer your question... yeah people use loops sometimes and they can be useful; how you use it makes a radical difference.
Old 29th December 2010
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisMiller View Post
Do producers like Armin Van Buuren, Tiesto, Oakenfold, Deadmou5 heck even the big time hip hop guys really use them? If so, what are the best libraries? I'm a soft synth geek & have tons of drum libraries but really have never gone for the loop libraries... Happy Holidays Slutz!!!!!
Generally when rythm is required by one of my songs, I just drop a loop on the ableton live and I am done. So yes loops certainly make my life easier.

And I love sampling, recycling ideas and audio can be a great source of inspiration , make you life much easier and even give you much better qualiyt of music.

Hands on approach on anything, does not make much sense and can easily lead to bad results. So I am a big supporter of loops, presets and samples.

I must have at least 1 million of samples from the Computer Music Magazine DVDs. I keep reminding myself that I should go out and 1TB hard disk just for them cause it will be a pitty to let all this material get wasted.
Old 29th December 2010
  #19
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 

I hate loops.

I love one-shot samples.
Old 29th December 2010
  #20
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

The thing I really hate is when products advertise '3,000 new fresh loops' and then you discover that most of these loops are part of a load of Construction sets... a complete waste of time. If I wanted paint by numbers music I'd get a bloody bontempi organ. I recently bought Zero G's 'Urban Legend' disk hoping for some good drum loops and single hits but 80% of the 8 Gig pack is made up of ****ty construction kits ! WORSE STILL when you play back the full version of these construction kit tracks they sound terrible so any hope of remotely using the breakdowns and individual parts is futile. A great way to pad out a product with what seems like a lot of data and loops but are break downs of the same lame tracks. Grrrrr ! !

I can see that there is a much bigger market for wannabe producers who need every single bit of the track done for them thus the ready made bass line to go with the ready made synth loop and the big ready made beat and vocals but shouldn't they put some sort of label on the product that lets the real writers know that this is aimed at monkeys ? - you could have somthing like a 'MB Games' logo or ' Ages 5 - 8' at least then you'd know that somethings may not be quite what they seem

That said tho it does all depend on what sort of loop you're using and how you use it. But there again... a ready made bass line is far more limited in its usable scope than a ready percussion loop
Old 29th December 2010
  #21
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what's so hard about just making one's own beetz that ppl buy loops and "construction kits"?

I can sort of understand why these are useful for making radio jingles or corporate presentation video soundtracks but for making music????
Old 29th December 2010
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbak View Post
what's so hard about just making one's own beetz that ppl buy loops and "construction kits"?

I can sort of understand why these are useful for making radio jingles or corporate presentation video soundtracks but for making music????
Because there's no youtube tutorial on groove. Look's like we've spotted a gap in the market. What's that? You can't learn a sense of rhythm without dancing to music? Fine, we'll just make dance music you can't really dance too!

Wobble. Plastic vox. Sidechain. Saw wave. Done.
Old 29th December 2010
  #23
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kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Because there's no youtube tutorial on groove. Look's like we've spotted a gap in the market. What's that? You can't learn a sense of rhythm without dancing to music? Fine, we'll just make dance music you can't really dance too!

Wobble. Plastic vox. Sidechain. Saw wave. Done.
Speaking for myself, I am one of those people, that have no problem admiting my weaknesses, rythm is one of them.

Sure I can make loops, drum loops etc. But in then it just takes me 5 minutes to find the loops I want and drop it on my track. Doing the same loop by myself would take hours. I dont feel the need to be excellent at all things nor I am bound to a DIY apprach to prove how pro I am .

I suck at making loops, thank you Ableton live.!!!

Prabably because I dont enjoy making drum loops as much as I enjoy making pads and soundscapes.
Old 29th December 2010
  #24
RTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbak View Post
what's so hard about just making one's own beetz that ppl buy loops and "construction kits"?

I can sort of understand why these are useful for making radio jingles or corporate presentation video soundtracks but for making music????
+1..thats what I think also...you have an idea? play the damn thing..set up a mic and shake a tambourine or some egg shakers..load up a drum kit and play the damn beat... it is no wounder that it is so hard to distinguish one artist from the next!
Old 29th December 2010
  #25
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I agree with what Beermaster is saying... You can spend 5 days trying to perfect a realistic sounding, programmed hi-hat... and it still might not sound as good as a real drummer can just rip out in 10 seconds.

I personally wouldn't dream of touching those construction kit type things and palming off someone else's music as my own, but I can understand that some kids with Dance Ejay might do.

I do sometimes use live shakers & hats etc. Though, I'll normally run them through Recycle, render as a Rex file, and at the same time as a complimentary midi file... then open the Rex in Battery & work it into my track.
Essentially, turning it into single hits... but all complimentary single hits with a live feel.
Old 29th December 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Because there's no youtube tutorial on groove.
u knowz there is heh

Dis wan go out to all ma beetbuyerz, look at DJ Subwoof breaking out the CTK-601 wird!!

Old 29th December 2010
  #27
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asbak View Post
what's so hard about just making one's own beetz that ppl buy loops and "construction kits"?
For most forms of EDM there isn't much need for loops as the beats are so simple to make so I totally agree.

EDM is only one form of music produced electronically and live beats are used in many more forms of music. Using single hits to make it sound as good as a live drummer is always second best to a live loop. Even the new Superior drummer beats which use MIDI performances from live drummers.. mapped out to be performed on meticulously sampled single hit kits doesn't sound as good as a the same drummer performing on a real kit..... Its bloody good but not as good !
Old 29th December 2010
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
.... BUT, then I went on to counter my own point, by saying that, conversely, a recent successful tune was made by some dude who ONLY used Vengeance loops.
Yep this, they really are that popular. Every producer I know has them even if they don't use them, like myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RTR View Post
+1..thats what I think also...you have an idea? play the damn thing..set up a mic and shake a tambourine or some egg shakers..load up a drum kit and play the damn beat... it is no wounder that it is so hard to distinguish one artist from the next!
Ain't that the truth! Real perc adds so much organic feel to tracks, I do it all the time now. However it is genre dependent, you usually don't want it that organic if your doing techno.

However Beermaster is right most EDM is easy, when doing things like funk/jazz/rock loops of a real drummer are so much better usually. The best ones out there are DrumDrops, simply amazing quality.


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