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Feedback: New deep-afro-house track with exotic scale & monstrous sub-bass Studio Monitors
Old 29th December 2010
  #31
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Sounds 500% better. Nice track...I wouldn't really change anything...
Old 29th December 2010
  #32
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more conscise and I def agree job done .. can't comment on mix through monitors, on cans Heavy!
Old 29th December 2010
  #33
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mekohler View Post
Sounds 500% better. Nice track...I wouldn't really change anything...
Quote:
Originally Posted by genieg View Post
more conscise and I def agree job done .. can't comment on mix through monitors, on cans Heavy!

Cheers guys thumbsup

Means a lot. Put a lot of work into this one!!


@genieg, did you buy some new headphones yet? If so, which did you go for in the end?
Old 29th December 2010
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Cheers guys thumbsup

Means a lot. Put a lot of work into this one!!


@genieg, did you buy some new headphones yet? If so, which did you go for in the end?

not yet I have some sennheiser HD215's that sound ok to me/ have had them for a while now so card and laptop then upgrade in a few months when I get some finances to cover the one's we discussed.thumbsup
Old 29th December 2010
  #35
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Simon

Great track. Loved the vibe, however I found the rhythm of the keys a little jarring in their predictability. The Mix is beautifully soft like you've smeared aloe vera into your mac or something. Fantastic work there. It think I either make use of this contrast is a deliberate manner, maybe counterpoint the clunk of the marimba/keys/bass with a bit of delay to really lift it at the end.

Also might I suggest... oddly, adding some vibrato (pitch) to the top part of the synth/keys/bass line... I think it might heighten the interest in that funky scale.
Old 29th December 2010
  #36
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Hey Zak, cheers for the feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
I found the rhythm of the keys a little jarring in their predictability.
Yeah... It's pretty rigid, bang on the grid, 1/8 dotted lead over a 1/4 dotted harmony, underpinned by the 1/8 marimba & subs.

Essentially, this is the crux of the idea that the track is based on, so there's little I can do to change that without re-writing the whole thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
The Mix is beautifully soft like you've smeared aloe vera into your mac or something. Fantastic work there.
It's E45 cream; squeezed it into the Expresscard34 slot... a neat tip I read in the Mastering sub-forum. Try it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
maybe counterpoint the clunk of the marimba/keys/bass with a bit of delay to really lift it at the end.
... There is a delay that comes in gradually on the lead part.

Subtle quiet delay on the deep marimba... I felt that any more would just be messy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Also might I suggest... oddly, adding some vibrato (pitch) to the top part of the synth/keys/bass line... I think it might heighten the interest in that funky scale.
On the deep Marimba part?

Hmm. You are right... That does sound unexpected... But worth trying!
Old 29th December 2010
  #37
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Pleasure mate. Your style is really developing. Sorry about the lateness of the reply, went to see my dad for christmas and then my girlfriend came to visit!

About that rhythm... I'm not saying change it, I think you'd loose a lot of the interest, maybe just lighten/loosen it up a bit more throughout the progression of the track.
Old 29th December 2010
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Pleasure mate. Your style is really developing.
It's a bit of a weird one... I seem to have got lost for most of this year in finishing the TBTM & Not For You EPs.
...TBTM I wrote about 4 years ago, & N4U well over a year & a half ago.

... There is an obvious lineage between this & the African Dissonance EP, which I released in summer, and are the most recently written tracks that I've finished.

You haven't sent me anything in a while.. used seem like a new track every 10 days. You getting bogged down in the working world?!
Old 29th December 2010
  #39
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Ah well, after my last track I felt like I wanted to make something that functioned as but more than simply a dancefloor track. It's really great to have something to slide right into DJ sets, but I really want to make a track that's really really good in a club and sounds not quite like nothing else out there. Anyway that takes a lot of time and work... and I've been really discerning about which fragments of music to work on.

I've just started arranging this.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1170458/Godless%20dub.mp3

I've also been working in a duo a bit.

This is a jam:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1170458/letm...thetalking.mp3
Old 29th December 2010
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Ah well, after my last track I felt like I wanted to make something that functioned as but more than simply a dancefloor track. It's really great to have something to slide right into DJ sets, but I really want to make a track that's really really good in a club and sounds not quite like nothing else out there. Anyway that takes a lot of time and work... and I've been really discerning about which fragments of music to work on.

I've just started arranging this.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1170458/Godless%20dub.mp3

I've also been working in a duo a bit.

This is a jam:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1170458/letm...thetalking.mp3
Lol at the title 'letmandydothetalking'... but 'file does not exist', apparently.

Godless dub is great. Really nasty. Those chords are really borderline acceptable harmonically... which is exactly who I like it.
Percussion is tasty. Best of all though... those synths are incredible... what are you using on this? Particularly the synth making the raspy hit on the 3rd 16th of every bar towards the end of the file.
Old 29th December 2010
  #41
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Tarkovsky's Avatar
 

Cheers

The wahhhng sound is Xils polykb, with distortion, eq, delay, compression and tonnes of tweaking - getting the glide right, and both adsrs to lock to the groove took ages. It's both a bass and a hit, with all the mids eqed out. Lots of OD in the filter of polykb. Tuned 5th vc0s, detuned a tad, ADSR2 makes the filter move. There's a tiny bit of chorus in there too I think.

The really fizzly sound is d16 phosycon (303) into ableton's grain delay set to pitch up 3.33 with feedback at 1ms with the slicing tuned to the notes 5th (roughly, I think).

Funny pitched pad is Xils Xils. It's just an lfo bending the VCO rate I think.

Perc is a full drum kit i've processed heavily.

Xils sounds really nice I think. The filter overdrive is pretty good. Maybe not as good and as gritty as the real thing, but its not bad.


Mandy should be ready... I think it hadn't finished uploading.
Old 29th December 2010
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Cheers

The wahhhng sound is Xils polykb, with distortion, eq, delay, compression and tonnes of tweaking - getting the glide right, and both adsrs to lock to the groove took ages. It's both a bass and a hit, with all the mids eqed out. Lots of OD in the filter of polykb. Tuned 5th vc0s, detuned a tad, ADSR2 makes the filter move. There's a tiny bit of chorus in there too I think.

The really fizzly sound is d16 phosycon (303) into ableton's grain delay set to pitch up 3.33 with feedback at 1ms with the slicing tuned to the notes 5th (roughly, I think).

Funny pitched pad is Xils Xils. It's just an lfo bending the VCO rate I think.

Perc is a full drum kit i've processed heavily.

Xils sounds really nice I think. The filter overdrive is pretty good. Maybe not as good and as gritty as the real thing, but its not bad.


Mandy should be ready... I think it hadn't finished uploading.
Ahh... Got this Mandy track now. Nice. Sounds like the sort of stuff that's popular with the resident advisor set... could sell some records that one.
I like the discordant violins.... oh sh** ... just as I was typing that I got to the violin blowout at the end. Whoa! What is that... they sound almost real... is that a real live string performance that you've perverted?

Godless dub is my favorite of the two though.

The Xils synths are great aren't they. By Xils Xils, I assume you mean Xils3?

I think these are possibly the most convincing virtual analogue plug-ins right now. Purely in terms of the vintage authenticity, I think they have the edge over DCAM... but DCAM are still my default 'go to'.

Have you tried the new Uhe Tyrell yet? That's pretty decent.
Old 29th December 2010
  #43
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Yeah xils 3 LE.

It's an actual violin, albeit an electric one, and not perfectly played by James, the guy whose singing. Guitar is me.

Have not tried Uhe Tyrell thanks for the heads up. Am having a look.

Wierdly enough I think I like the Dcam bass sounds more. More punchy. xils stuff seems better suited to those interesting sounds. Dcam can't be beat for grit I think.
Old 29th December 2010
  #44
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i bought the Xils-3 LE about a year ago with the audiomidi.com no brainer deal. Stupidly good value... it does almost everything that the full version does, I'm not hurting from any limitations.
Old 29th December 2010
  #45
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Mardi Gras's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Thanks.

Does anyone else agree with this? ... Sub is sounding pretty huge on my monitors.

Mardi Gras, what speakers are you listening on?
listening on adam a7x speakers, listened with headphones too could only hear them a touch
Old 29th December 2010
  #46
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grumphh's Avatar
 

You know, you really should edit the original post heh

I read the first post and listened immediately yesterday and thought that you must have had some really deep bass going on, because my system certainly didn't reproduce anything like the subbass advertised in the headline...

Then i returned to the thread and found this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Just to say that the bass is now GONE!!!

Got a marimba in place of it doing that part,



...Bastard! heh


.
Old 29th December 2010
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
You know, you really should edit the original post heh

I read the first post and listened immediately yesterday and thought that you must have had some really deep bass going on, because my system certainly didn't reproduce anything like the subbass advertised in the headline...

Then i returned to the thread and found this:






...Bastard! heh


.

Errr... The sub bass is still there... and sounding properly massive on my monitors.

All I deleted was a relatively high bass-line (centered maybe around 200Hz (guessing.).). This has now been replaced by the low marimba part... which in the context of this deep afro track makes much more sense than the wispy electro bass line that was in there.


Okay... I'm now seriously concerned, because that's two people in consecutive posts saying that they cannot hear the sub!!!

Oh dear

Can ANYONE hear the sub, or is it only in my mind? Please list what monitors you are listening on too.

... I'm not mega bothered if my bass isn't heard on laptops... so long ass it makes people [email protected] their pants when played on a club system heh



@ Mardi gras, I certainly cannot crank the sub by '2dB' as you suggest... this would effectively equate to turning everything else down by 2dB and leaving the sub where it is.

The mix is already not the loudest... I'm limited by the fact that I have melody, chord & occasional big congas all hitting on top of the kick. Ducking them much more would make them inaudible.


>>> I've already noticed a couple of things that I want to tweak, so my current plan of action for today is this:

* Trim a tiny bit more low off the organ, reign in the decay a touch (which has become emphasised by compressing the hell out it), see if I can duck it a touch more out of the way of the kick.
I think this last point will help me raise the overall level as it is this over the kicks that is currently creating the highest amplitude peaks.

* Try to cull a some more <30Hz, and replace the won headroom with a tiny touch more 30-40Hz. I'm not sure how much more I can push it, but that should help the sub come through.
Old 29th December 2010
  #48
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Errr... The sub bass is still there... and sounding properly massive on my monitors.

Can ANYONE hear the sub, .
I am listening through 3 way stereo speakers (with an 8 or 10" bass driver - sorry no measuring tape here) that have a very nice range for all other sorts of music except probably dance music whith a whole lot of subbass...


Is the bass that comes in at 40 seconds or maybe the one at 1.09 the subbass you are talking about?

In that case i don't hear it as monstrous or anything, just a bassline that nicely solidifies the track.
Old 29th December 2010
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
I am listening through 3 way stereo speakers (with an 8 or 10" bass driver - sorry no measuring tape here) that have a very nice range for all other sorts of music except probably dance music whith a whole lot of subbass...


Is the bass that comes in at 40 seconds or maybe the one at 1.09 the subbass you are talking about?

In that case i don't hear it as monstrous or anything, just a bassline that nicely solidifies the track.
Ha... yes, I'm probably guilty of trying to sex up this thread's title to garner more feedback! In earlier mixes, it was bigger in the mix. It's got less weighty as I've sidechained compressed it with a bit of a pump... but what it's lost in weight, I think it's gained in bounce.

What is most important to me is that it is at the appropriate relative level in the mix... is it??
Old 29th December 2010
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post

What is most important to me is that it is at the appropriate relative level in the mix... is it??
Can't answer that one for you - because obviously this will sound much different when pumped through a club sound system at volume rather than at low levels through stereo speakers.
I mean, that is its intended purpose, right?

But as i didn't hear the bass as being overpowering, annoying or disturbing i would guess that you have done a good mix.
In any case i liked it.
Old 29th December 2010
  #51
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Jon Silva's Avatar
 

Luv this one, Simonator! Really great vibe and proper production!

Can hear the sub on JBL Control 1 plus 8" subwoofer and it seems in place for me, just double checked on HD-25 cans.
Old 29th December 2010
  #52
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nator if your still looking for opinions on the sub powers send me the file... I honestly think its ok mate its low tight and clean on my headphones, but I'll be happy to listen in my room with the A7's I'm running.
Old 29th December 2010
  #53
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Cheers guys.

Been working on hyping/tightening the subs somewhat today.

Hopefully have something to post soon.

Just hoping I have totally f***ed up the balance because that mix took me most of yesterday to nail... fearing I might now need to zero all the faders & start again :-O
Old 29th December 2010
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
It's a little lump/boxy at 300-600hz and there's a huge hole 1.5>3.5khz (perhaps the missing flute caused you to make that hole...?) Kick could use a bit more bottom octave too though it is flat & consistent with the sub atm.
Just wanted to say that this was great advice... I've now addressed both of these issues & the track is much better for it!

Cheers!!
Old 29th December 2010
  #55
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For anyone that is not already completely bored to death of this track... I just uploaded another new mix.



I sold my soul to Beelzebub & he channelled himself through me to perform some evil trickery on the subs... I've got them much bigger & more audible + tighter at the same time.

Have also fixed the organ, I think.


@ Mardi Gras & Grumphh, I'm interested if the sub is now coming through on your systems??
Old 29th December 2010
  #56
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Just wanted to say that this was great advice... I've now addressed both of these issues & the track is much better for it!

Cheers!!
No problem, sometimes if adding a part takes a tune 'over the top' (like your flute seemed to by your statements) editing that back out and using corrective eq on the individual parts or even the master bus is enough to sort it. And in response to your previous post no I wasn't actually suggesting adding anything unless you felt it was warranted, when I listen to a tune that's doing just fine on its own and the writer chooses to add 'just one more thing' rather than simply varying the elements that are already in play then the song is either "progressive" (as in trance, house) or more likely just has been taken too far

I can't turn it up enough atm to comment further (re: sub) but good luck with finishing it!
Old 30th December 2010
  #57
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Mardi Gras's Avatar
 

heh what did you do to the subs? They sound good
Old 30th December 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardi Gras View Post
heh what did you do to the subs? They sound good
Mwah ha ha ha harrrrrr heh
Old 30th December 2010
  #59
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I've given the subs some steroids... really pushed things.

It's kind of worked... the only downside is that now the notes are totally perceptible/distinguishable... which was never really the intention.

Think it just about works though, and it's turned out pretty tight & bouncy... which is good.
Old 30th December 2010
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post

@ Mardi Gras & Grumphh, I'm interested if the sub is now coming through on your systems??
It is more clear now than it was before - i mean, it was there all the time, but i just expected something more...

...basically i expected my shelves trembling and getting swamped in sub 40 hz frequencies with a little added rythm on top given your ever so slightly exaggerated topic title.

Are you in marketing?
If not you should be heh
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