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Nord Lead 3 - Digital Aliasing Issues Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 26th December 2010
  #1
Nord Lead 3 - Digital Aliasing Issues

My Nord Lead 3 seems to have an annoying "aliasing" sound, especially noticeable with sounds that have long release times and more high frequency content. Is this normal? If so, are there any keys to getting rid of it?
Old 26th December 2010
  #2
I had a similar issue with my electro2. Eventually, some of the sounds stop working entirely. I reinstalled the latest firmware and samples. Which, oddly, caused more issues. I was getting ready to send it in to be serviced. It sat unplugged for a few days and when I plugged it back in, to make a list of the issues to be repaired, it had miraculously began working again. So I would suggest reinstalling the latest firmware. Then unplugging it for 24 hours.

Good luck.
Old 26th December 2010
  #3
I just re-updated the OS to the latest version (it already was updated to the latest version). The aliasing problem still exists...
Old 27th December 2010
  #4
Here's an audio example. I used a little bit of compression to exaggerate the issue.

Download Nord Lead 3 - Digital Alias on Tail.wav from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way
Old 28th December 2010
  #5
I just checked my cousin's Nord Lead 3. It seems that the problem exists on his synth too, but it is noticably less pronounced. Hmm...
Old 28th December 2010
  #6
It's the Nord Lead 3s. That's just how they sound. It's the reason a lot of people, including myself, have kept their Lead 2s.
Old 28th December 2010
  #7
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

I listened to the clip and that doesn't sound like aliasing. It sounds like USB noise.
Old 29th December 2010
  #8
It's nothing to do with the recording...it sounds exactly like that from the line outs/headphone outs. Having said that, my JDI direct box does lessen the problem.
Old 29th December 2010
  #9
Old 29th December 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
"aliasing" sound
Are you talking about that digital noise that starts getting audible at around 8 seconds?

As others have said, doesn't sound like aliasing to me either - but what it is i couldn't say...
Old 29th December 2010
  #11
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Can you confirm the following:

- NL3 is in a separate room to your "studio" gear
- It is not connected to any computer and / or mixer or in close proximity to any such equipment
- the only thing plugged into the NL3 (apart from the power supply) is a pair of headphones
- the digital noise issue can still be heard on the headphones when auditioning the test patch?

If yes to all the above then there is some kind of issue with the keyboard. As for how to fix this.... no idea.

I get problems with digital noise at home but in my case the noise source is my computer (but not the sound card on the computer, that particular device is clean) which "bleeds" some of this noise into an analog monitoring mixer which has various analog and digital hardware synths attached to it.
Old 29th December 2010
  #12
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FUBAR's Avatar
 

sounds more like harmonic distortion to my ears. I presume that this sound is clean (no effects, eq etc....)

If it's clean then the sound source is probably corrupt !
Old 29th December 2010
  #13
I think it's a universal problem with the Nords. To answer your question, ask, the Nord is in my studio room. Are you saying it might have something to do with the power?
Old 29th December 2010
  #14
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I don't think its aliasing at all.
At least i'm pretty sure it has no relation to the samplerate.

Are you sure this is not AM or distortion or something?
Old 29th December 2010
  #15
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUBAR View Post
sounds more like harmonic distortion to my ears. I presume that this sound is clean (no effects, eq etc....)

If it's clean then the sound source is probably corrupt !
To me, the distortion sounds intended.
Old 29th December 2010
  #16
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Almost sounds like the Roland D50 hiss near the end of the file. Doesn't sound like aliasing especially as the filter is low on the sound, sounds like digital noise almost as if the source was 10bits
Old 29th December 2010
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
I think it's a universal problem with the Nords.
right

Quote:
To answer your question, ask, the Nord is in my studio room. Are you saying it might have something to do with the power?
In my case I hear a bit of digital noise on my main mixer when a keyboard submixer is plugged into one of the channels but in my case it's the computer generating that noise which the submixer picks up for some reason, even though they aren't even connected. (Could be the CPU, Graphics card... I'm not sure).

Strangely enough the signal from the computer soundcard going into the main mixer is clean.

Basically I just wanted to check whether in your case the noise could have been coming from a different source than the synth itself by first unplugging it from any devices such as computers and mixers which may be introducing noise into the audio path.
Old 29th December 2010
  #18
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
It's nothing to do with the recording...it sounds exactly like that from the line outs/headphone outs. Having said that, my JDI direct box does lessen the problem.
I'm not suggesting that the USB noise was created during the recording process, I'm sure you could hear it before you recorded the clip. But some synths can have problems with USB noise from somewhere in the rig getting into the synth's audio signals. Disconnecting the USB cable, re-routing the USB to a different port on the computer, or in some cases replacing audio cables that had bad shields can stop the problem.
Old 30th December 2010
  #19
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Peck View Post
I'm not suggesting that the USB noise was created during the recording process, I'm sure you could hear it before you recorded the clip. But some synths can have problems with USB noise from somewhere in the rig getting into the synth's audio signals. Disconnecting the USB cable, re-routing the USB to a different port on the computer, or in some cases replacing audio cables that had bad shields can stop the problem.
How about a ferrite clamp on the USB cable, huh?
heh
Old 30th December 2010
  #20
There is no USB cable involved in recording. Just firewire.
Old 30th December 2010
  #21
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Haven't you had a NL3 for like 7, or more, years now? Why are having a problem with it now?
Old 30th December 2010
  #22
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MonoBrow's Avatar
 

Unplug all cables including power and turn the switch to the on position.Wait 1 hour and test again.Worth a shot.
Old 30th December 2010
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluxpod View Post
Unplug all cables including power and turn the switch to the on position.Wait 1 hour and test again.Worth a shot.
How will that help?
Old 30th December 2010
  #24
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MonoBrow's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
How will that help?
Maybe will clean out some stuck code somewhere.Did you do it?

Nothing to loose with a try.

Edit...I realise that this is odd advice but maybe you get lucky.
Old 31st December 2010
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
FUBAR's Avatar
 

No I mean the patch has some form of artefact in it. Recreate the patch from scratch edit it and if it's still there then you can't remove it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
I think it's a universal problem with the Nords. To answer your question, ask, the Nord is in my studio room. Are you saying it might have something to do with the power?
Old 31st December 2010
  #26
Yes, I suppose 'artifact' is the correct term. I get this problem on many different patches.
Old 31st December 2010
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
FUBAR's Avatar
 

There you have it, the artefact is in the waveform or oscillator and not intended.

Contact clavia's technical support and see if it's just a fault on your unit, list all the patch names and add a link so they can hear it but make sure you amplify the artefact (so you don't get a lazy tech saying he can't hear it)

If this just started happening recently it could also be a bad OS update so think back to any changes you made.

Good luck with it !

Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
Yes, I suppose 'artifact' is the correct term. I get this problem on many different patches.
Old 31st December 2010
  #28
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monomer's Avatar
 

The artefact sounds like a square wave at the same frequency as the sound.
It sounds like quantization noise.

How about your levels?
Maybe you have the levels low in the synth and then boosting it in the analog domain?
That could boost the LSB of the converter (including its quantization noise).
If you can, try to maximize the synths levels (turn down the mixer, or whatever you go to from the NL3, then set the patch output level to max, then turn up the master level).
Old 31st December 2010
  #29
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUBAR View Post
There you have it, the artefact is in the waveform or oscillator and not intended.

Contact clavia's technical support and see if it's just a fault on your unit, list all the patch names and add a link so they can hear it but make sure you amplify the artefact (so you don't get a lazy tech saying he can't hear it)

If this just started happening recently it could also be a bad OS update so think back to any changes you made.

Good luck with it !
If the problem was in the oscillators or the waveforms then they should exist in every NL3 that run the same version of the OS.
A bad OS update would propably not create such a subtle problem.
In any case, the OP already re-flashed the OS and it didn't help.
Old 31st December 2010
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
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It's pretty pathetic that this problem is even there as it's not a cheap synth. Having to compensate for a manufacture fault is a joke and I would have had an RMA on it just as quick as I got it out of the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
If the problem was in the oscillators or the waveforms then they should exist in every NL3 that run the same version of the OS.
A bad OS update would propably not create such a subtle problem.
In any case, the OP already re-flashed the OS and it didn't help.
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