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SP-1200 Emulator? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 15th April 2013
  #31
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Vanilla_Dutches's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupone View Post
Not really, there are some similarities but an emax sounds like an emax.
There are a lot of similarities....the biggest difference? About $2000
Old 15th April 2013
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForWerd View Post
I did a Maschine vs SP1200 comparison awhile back and I'm pretty sure I started a thread about it. There are audio files too. The Maschine emulation of the SP1200 was VERY good to me. What people fail to do is speed the sample up and pitch it down, just like the real SP1200. When you pitch down with the Maschine emulation you get very close.
Yes, there is a thread about it on here....a blind poll....battery emu cs the genuine article

Not sure how many were avtual sp users but people got it wrong

The Battery emulation is VERY good. As long as you pitch it up sampling in then back down inside Battery..you will get the aliasing effect.
Old 16th April 2013
  #33
Tuesday Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla_Dutches View Post
Yes, there is a thread about it on here....a blind poll....battery emu cs the genuine article

Not sure how many were avtual sp users but people got it wrong
So the test showed that people who didn't know the difference didn't know the difference?
Old 16th April 2013
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday Knight View Post
So the test showed that people who didn't know the difference didn't know the difference?
How many SP users do you know...?? When I was 18 I knew about 15-20 of them. (I am a former SP-12 Turbo owner)

Now they are a novelty....

I used an SP-12 for 5 years...sometimes side by side with my homies 1200. I know the sound....I own an Emax..and Battery

Do they sound EXACTLY the same? No...but then again neither do two SP1200's

With todays tools...the SP1200 is rendered irrelevant. It's a niche...and that sound can be had, close enough to be negligible, for $2000+ less....

That's all I'm saying...
Old 16th April 2013
  #35
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BS.. SP's command high prices because they are unique machines with a unique sound...i'm a 1200 owner btw and can guarantee the Maschine/Battery SP emulation isn't all that.. we're not even close to Waves or UAD hardware emulation (NI don't have the resources to go that deep in component/circuitry modeling) besides there are too many analog things at play on a SP: AD/DA, idiosyncratic SSM2044 filters & the internal mixer. then you got the actual 12-bit/26khz sampling engine and the crazy detune artifacts. most emulations are just glorified bitcrushers with a lowpass, but the combination of all the above is what gives life to samples inside the SP, and it's something i haven't heard get close to emulate. of course the SP is a lot more then just it's sound, it's got the grooviest sequencer and the interface with the sliders is killer.. then it's got the sustain looping and several other tricks up it's sleeve.. it's easily worth it's price of admission imo.. EPS/ASR10/S950/MPC60 are also great but SP is king of vintage samplers..
Old 16th April 2013
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
(NI don't have the resources to go that deep in component/circuitry modeling)
Please don't think I'm picking at you as I promise I care absolutely nothing for sampler character, but I do believe that given the introduction of Monark that the quoted bit of your statement is sort of out of place.
Old 16th April 2013
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
BS.. SP's command high prices because they are unique machines with a unique sound...i'm a 1200 owner btw and can guarantee the Maschine/Battery SP emulation isn't all that.. we're not even close to Waves or UAD hardware emulation (NI don't have the resources to go that deep in component/circuitry modeling) besides there are too many analog things at play on a SP: AD/DA, idiosyncratic SSM2044 filters & the internal mixer. then you got the actual 12-bit/26khz sampling engine and the crazy detune artifacts. most emulations are just glorified bitcrushers with a lowpass, but the combination of all the above is what gives life to samples inside the SP, and it's something i haven't heard get close to emulate. of course the SP is a lot more then just it's sound, it's got the grooviest sequencer and the interface with the sliders is killer.. then it's got the sustain looping and several other tricks up it's sleeve.. it's easily worth it's price of admission imo.. EPS/ASR10/S950/MPC60 are also great but SP is king of vintage samplers..
A 24ppq resolution sequencer is hardly what id call "grooviest"...thats bull****. That's like saying a parapalegic is known for their dynamic flexibility.

Look at all the samplers you just named off....for sustain looping? An ASR-10, hell, even the EPS-16 whips the SP1200's ass upside down.

The Emax sequencer is trash but as far as everything else? The SE version takes a behemoth sized **** on the SP1200.

The S950's low pass filter >>>>>>>

What do all three of the above listed have over the SP1200?? Variable bit rate....

Guess what else? For the average going rate of an SP1200....which is about 2200 USD

You can have all three of the listed samplers above......

Plus build a quad core powered tower for a DAW

and throw an SP-303 on top for good measure....

Dude....it's a SUPER glorified antique.
Old 16th April 2013
  #38
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It may be an antique, but I sure love using my SP-1200 & 12-T . They are great FUN machines to use.

My only regret with the 1200 is I didn't buy one sooner.

I don't think the swing on the SP is so great TBH.. But most of the feel of it (for me) comes from trimming samples by ear.

Knocking out bass lines on it also forces me to think outside the square as I'm using such an odd (and cool) way of entering notes.

I've got an offensive amount of gear and the SP-1200 (with HxC) is easily in the top 3.
Old 16th April 2013
  #39
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^ same here... i've got every drum machine under the sun.. 3 MPCs (60II,3000,2000XL) .. and the latest new gen sampling/drum machines (Octatrack, Tempest) well the SP1200 ****s on all of them.. it's simplicity... those sliders.. that groove & the sound.. perfection. it's limitations & idiosyncrasies are actually it's strength..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla_Dutches View Post
A 24ppq resolution sequencer is hardly what id call "grooviest"...thats bull****. That's like saying a parapalegic is known for their dynamic flexibility.
i guess it's subjective but yes i find the SP's 24ppq resolution and it's fixed swing % the grooviest swing quantize i've heard on a drum machine (short of using unquantized recording) my MPC60 is a close second but totally different bounce. the SP swing is coarse but man is it funky, it's actually believe it or not, my favorite feature of the machine... nothing grooves like it... it's crazy.. fwiw i've discussed this in length a while ago in another forum and we found there was actually something else then just 24ppq going on there


Quote:
You can have all three of the listed samplers above......

Plus build a quad core powered tower for a DAW

and throw an SP-303 on top for good measure....

Dude....it's a SUPER glorified antique.
whatever dude... you know the saying... one man's junk is another man's treasure.. half the people here will argue emulators, clones & DAW beat analog (and they do feature/price wise) but sound & interface trumps that imo... a super glorified antique? sure, again you'll have people on here saying the same thing about the TR808/909, others like myself will give you 909 reasons why they rule them all... different strokes for different folks.. don't be mad
Old 16th April 2013
  #40
Tuesday Knight
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla_Dutches View Post
How many SP users do you know...?? When I was 18 I knew about 15-20 of them. (I am a former SP-12 Turbo owner)

Now they are a novelty....

I used an SP-12 for 5 years...sometimes side by side with my homies 1200. I know the sound....I own an Emax..and Battery

Do they sound EXACTLY the same? No...but then again neither do two SP1200's

With todays tools...the SP1200 is rendered irrelevant. It's a niche...and that sound can be had, close enough to be negligible, for $2000+ less....

That's all I'm saying...
A few, but the reality is more people would have them if they were cheaper.. It's more useful than a 909/808 arguably. Those sounds are static and actually quite simple engineering wise and with Wave Alchemy Transistor and the speed Reaktor is coming along..
Old 16th April 2013
  #41
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Vanilla_Dutches's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday Knight View Post
A few, but the reality is more people would have them if they were cheaper.. It's more useful than a 909/808 arguably. Those sounds are static and actually quite simple engineering wise and with Wave Alchemy Transistor and the speed Reaktor is coming along..
Agree 100% on both points.
Old 16th April 2013
  #42
VST
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Have you looked at the Casio RZ-1?

I'm doing a 4MB sample expansion and Eprom mod on mine atm. Poor man's SP-1200 :/
Old 16th April 2013
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstace View Post
Have you looked at the Casio RZ-1?

I'm doing a 4MB sample expansion and Eprom mod on mine atm. Poor man's SP-1200 :/
How much more sample time will you get from that mod?

Drums knock off that thing indeed.
Old 16th April 2013
  #44
VST
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla_Dutches View Post
How much more sample time will you get from that mod?

Drums knock off that thing indeed.
6 banks of 4, so 24x two second samples or 12x four second samples.

Plus four built in kits on the eprom, 808/909/DMX/RZ-1

I just started the build a week ago. I'll start a thread whenever I get it done. Hopefully in a month or two.
Old 16th April 2013
  #45
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Dont forget that the SP has a tight midi clock. You dont have to struggle to get punch out of your drums. The sound of the 1200 is very different from anything else I have. You can import your sounds from your computer with sample dump. HxC drives make backing up a breeze.

I see alot of sp 1200 copycats. Im not much into those because of the other features the sp has that isnt mentioned as much.

Many people on this website have blown out ears and dont even know it.
Old 16th April 2013
  #46
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Sampler Man's Avatar
You may be able to emulate the sound of the SP1200 but due to its unique architecture users sample in a different way with the actual unit then with an emulator. Due to its limitations people are forced to be creative with only 10 seconds.

The reason I gravitate to the SP1200 is because of its onboard sequencer. I would have loved it if E-MU had implemented a similar sequencer on their other units. The SP1200 is brutal in terms of bang for your buck. At $150 the ESI is a way better box but It's a pain to drag out a sequencer to work with it.
Old 16th April 2013
  #47
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ecologie's Avatar
Red line Morgana.
Old 16th April 2013
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecologie View Post
Red line Morgana.
No way.....for SP-ish drums? Nah

I actually like Morgana, and as a Mirage owner, think it does a decent enough job of getting that sound...
Old 5th August 2014
  #49
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apprenticemart2 View Post
I think the Emax actually is a 12 bit sampler. The EII was an 8 bit sampler but stored/rearranged the data as 12 bit (I think).

Just get a Prophet 2000/2002 instead. SP-1200 is pretty expensive.
Are you saying sample through the Prophet to get that 12 bit sound?
Old 5th August 2014
  #50
Lives for gear
the battery emulation is pretty ok but you will not be able to overdrive when going in etc so yeah as with any emulation to this day, it will not be the same. you want authentic you still need the original.
Old 5th August 2014
  #51
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Pale Pyramid's Avatar
The prophet 2000 is a 12bit sampler
Old 5th August 2014
  #52
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post
the battery emulation is pretty ok but you will not be able to overdrive when going in etc so yeah as with any emulation to this day, it will not be the same. you want authentic you still need the original.
why not? overdrive/EQ/re-sample the 'clean' original sample before going into the emulation. might not be exactly the same as the overdriven sound from the converters, but i think it's worth a shot.
Old 6th August 2014
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
why not? overdrive/EQ/re-sample the 'clean' original sample before going into the emulation. might not be exactly the same as the overdriven sound from the converters, but i think it's worth a shot.
sure, but all this stuff adds up and will get you further from the real deal.
it is all just a matter of how authentic you need it to sound, if you need 100% be prepared to spend the money cause no emulation / workaround will satisfy you then. the sp is more than just sampling specs that need to be matched.

but like i said, the battery emulation is fine imo.
Old 6th August 2014
  #54
Gear Nut
 

Aren't the E12 machines in the Elektron Machinedrum supposed to emulate the sound of the SP1200 ?

The MD is a 12 bits machine after all.
Old 6th August 2014
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post
sure, but all this stuff adds up and will get you further from the real deal.
not sure about that really... if this subtle distortion from sampling on the unit itself is the only notable difference when comparing 112db 'Morgana' to a real Ensoniq Mirage, then i'd imagine that treating the sample to have a bit of overdrive/compression before loading it into the emulation would probably bring you closer to the real deal.

like you said though, the emulations are fine.


EDIT: can't really say for sure how close the NI SP/MPC emulations are (i think they're ok), but i was really surprised at how close 'Morgana' came to an actual Mirage. due to this i tend to believe that the NI emulations are similar once i started hearing a number of SP/MPC-60 owners saying how close they were. there will always be the quacks that say they sound nothing like the originals, not worth listening to them after a bit.

i wouldn't expect anything to sound 100% either way, it just doesn't matter that much to sound 100% like anyone else.
Old 6th August 2014
  #56
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SPBox - Analog SP output clone: Ny side 1
Old 6th August 2014
  #57
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I don't understand why people are so fixated on getting the exact sound of some 30 year old record. I know there is the sentimental value in it but does it need to be 100% accurate? Personally I spent my youth with Amiga computers and loved the tracker sound. I wanted to get that sound but didn't want to get the exact piece so I bought an Emax. It's slightly more hi-fi, but I don't care. Actually I wouldn't go below 32 KHz and detuning more than half an octave when sampling nowadays. SP1200 has that irritating ringing tone when detuning which I find unusable for modern music IMHO. Actually I find that when sampling single hits OTO Biscuit does the best job, it's very versatile and goes from hi-fi to lo-fi with just a turn of a knob.
Old 12th August 2014
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
can't really say for sure how close the NI SP/MPC emulations are
there's a thread / test results on gs.
it can sound close enough imo if you don't hit the in hard.
Old 12th August 2014
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee View Post
I don't understand why people are so fixated on getting the exact sound of some 30 year old record.
I agree. You know, the artists that made the SP1200 popular as a "HipHop machine" (Pete Rock etc) didn't even use it to get that sound. They used it because that is what was available at the time. They would pitch samples up going in to maximize the 10 second sample limit, not to get a particular sound. There's some vids on you tube with Grap Luva being interviewed with his SP and he even says that he don't like the aliasing sound the the SP heads want so bad. On top of that, when the MPC 2000 came out, most artist moved to that, including Pete. With that said, the Maschine emulation is VERY CLOSE IMO when you sample into Maschine pitched up, turn on SP1200 emulation and pitch it down. I posted some audio files a while back, they're floating around on GS somewhere. I no longer have an SP1200 or Maschine, but do have Renaissance and an Emax.
Old 12th August 2014
  #60
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jonesy101's Avatar
 

Yeah i love the new cold sterile ****....

Same with indie music - why use guitars
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