The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Comparison of 5 moog-like analogs - which one you like best? (RESULTS) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 18th December 2010
  #271
Lives for gear
 
wwjd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Nice evidence how MiniMoog and Jupiter 8 are "overhyped". (as claimed by so many).

I guess this thread will close their mouth once and for all. Hahahaha!!!
hehehehehe if the 8 could do HALF of what the A6 could do, Ida considered it. Too bad the A6 was not in this test Maybe it would not have won, but the results would be interesting.
Old 18th December 2010
  #272
Quote:
Originally Posted by upfineclouds View Post
What do you think about the reliaility of the SH-2?
Reliability? I've had several old Rolands with no problems other than dirty sliders (and those can be cleaned).

For something new you should take a close listen to the Spectral Audio Neptune 2. I think it has that Roland sound in spades. In fact in this listening test I was almost sure the Jupiter 8 was a Neptune.
Old 18th December 2010
  #273
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd View Post
hehehehehe if the 8 could do HALF of what the A6 could do, Ida considered it. Too bad the A6 was not in this test Maybe it would not have won, but the results would be interesting.
i think we had a little A6 JP8 shoot out not so long ago...
Old 18th December 2010
  #274
Lives for gear
 
relis's Avatar
 

Turns out LP was my favourite, followed by Jupiter very closly.


That ain't gonna make me buy LP, though. Tried it many times, never was satisfied. I doubt I'll ever buy a Jupiter, too. Reasons obvious.


So, as long as my ATC-X sounds like:

this

...I'm very satisfied. It's the cut of remix in progress.


(that's the ATC-X used it this test btw.)

heh




The real surprise for me, well... not really surprise, is Jupiter 8.

Respect to Roland's engineers!
Old 18th December 2010
  #275
Lives for gear
 
Mr. Varaldo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
heh Obsessive much?

I wonder what it is to you that i (and quite a few others) still don't think that a JP8 is the pinnacle of synth evolution? :headscratch:
Uhm... let's just say you just cannot understand real synths and real synth players. For the very basic reason that - yeah, uhm... Oh yeah! I forgot. You are a guitarist.

Quote:
BTW, you are the guy who ranked the JP8 below a LP - does that mean that a budget modern moog actually sounds better than the all-powerful JP8 in your opinion?
No, I'm not. Re-read the thread, and especially post 160, where I re-listened to the demos with headphones. The first time around I had listened to them in a hurry and from external speakers.

After I listened to them through headphones, it became evident to me that I liked "C" the best, then "A", and then "B"

And even if I did, I'd be ok with, I really like all synths, including (and especially after this shootout) the Little Phatty - because I am, you know, a keyboard player - not a GUITARIST, or a boring Internet contrarian just-for-the-sake-of-it
Old 18th December 2010
  #276
Gear Nut
 
upfineclouds's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer
For something new you should take a close listen to the Spectral Audio Neptune 2. I think it has that Roland sound in spades.
I can hear a lot of that sound in Neptune 2.
Old 18th December 2010
  #277
Lives for gear
 
Westlaker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
3rd place behind the mini and the jupe sounds right to me
Yes, that's where you'd imagine it would place. But in fact, it came in 4th place, not 3rd, behind the Phatty, and dangerously close to ATC territory. But I wonder if the wording of the poll (5 "Moog like" synths) didn't play into this...
Old 18th December 2010
  #278
Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
Yes, that's where you'd imagine it would place. But in fact, it came in 4th place, not 3rd, behind the Phatty, and dangerously close to ATC territory. But I wonder if the wording of the poll (5 "Moog like" synths) didn't play into this...
oh yea.

i was thinking about my own rankning. got a little mixed up along the way.

people should just default to my ranking anywayheh
Old 18th December 2010
  #279
Lives for gear
 
Westlaker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
people should just default to my ranking anywayheh
No doubt. And it could be time for a new username: golden ears.
Old 18th December 2010
  #280
Lives for gear
 
aeonlux's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upfineclouds View Post
This game only proved to me that I'm leaning towards the old Japanese synth sound.
I'm with ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by upfineclouds View Post
What do you think about the reliaility of the SH-2?
I think it is quite a solid piece. Mine seems so anyway. If one hasn't been serviced, it may need a round of it just because of how old it is now as it concerns the power supply and such. That said, once sorted, it delivers, and despite VCOs, it hold tuning quite nicely.


cheers,
Ian
Old 18th December 2010
  #281
Gear Nut
 
upfineclouds's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeonlux
I think it is quite a solid piece. Mine seems so anyway. If one hasn't been serviced, it may need a round of it just because of how old it is now as it concerns the power supply and such. That said, once sorted, it delivers, and despite VCOs, it hold tuning quite nicely.
Thanks for good news. I will probably make an exception and go for my last vintage piece if I can find a fully working and good looking SH-2 in the future. It seems to sit in the same price range as Little Phatty and I like the Roland sound much, much more.
Old 18th December 2010
  #282
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
what was your order of preference don?
I wrote it already when voting. Here is the edited version with real names instead of A or B...

---copy/paste---
8VE FIZZ
Jupiter 8: Nice addicting filter. Can't stop listening to it.
Little Phatty: ooohh such a great sounding VCO, nice juicy filter
MiniMoog: pure juice of the VCOs and the filter
Roland SH-2: nice VCO, very smooth sounding... kinda tasty :-))
ATC-X: i dunno but i just don't like it

OCTAVES
Jupiter 8: nice
Little Phatty: fatter than A but similar somehow
MiniMoog: the bomb
Roland SH-2: niiice... me like it!
ATC-X: LOL! what kind of garbage is this? I thought you said there were no softsynths in this test. WTF!!

SQR1VCO+RESO
Jupiter 8: can't get enough of this synth. it is fantastic.
Little Phatty: ooohhh i know from where this filter comes from.
MiniMoog: nice healthy sounding filter.
Roland SH-2: sweeet sounding filter. fantastic!!
ATC-X: ok filter, but you got some ****ty VCO there bro! hahaha!!!

In detail:
  • Jupiter 8 - i find its filter kinda addictive and very sweet sounding and overall like the character of this synth.
  • Minimoog - as a synth in general sounds very nice. So IMO it shares the first place with the A. It doesn't have that hypnotic thing going on in the filter, but still it's stellar.
  • Little Phatty - aggressive character in the filter revealed itself. I know (99%) which synth this is so my opinion would be biased. I will not vote it.
  • SH-2 - stellar filter. Damn, this is kind of stuff that makes it hard to vote!
  • ATC-X = VSTi. Period.
---end of copy/paste---
Old 18th December 2010
  #283
Lives for gear
 
Xero's Avatar


thumbsup
Old 18th December 2010
  #284
Gear Maniac
 

My votes were - 1. Minimoog, 2. JP8 , 3. SH-02, 4. ATC-X, 5. Little Phatty.

Not surprised as I'm not a huge fan of the more modern Moogs, or much modern analog hardware in general (to me the main point is the tonal variation created by slightly unstable / crap components. When you remove that, with modern manufacturing processes or DCO's, I don't personally see much point Vs a computer when the computer doesn't have much trouble emulating stable tones and predictable behaviours).

Things that surprised me about this thread:

1. How many people thought the Little Phatty actually sounded good. Still think it deserves the last place I gave it.

2. The lack of bass on the ATC-X. I'm sure I've heard better bass from an SE Omega. Is the ATC-X series really so poor when it comes to bass?

3. How many people gave subjective opinions, but didn't (or couldn't) actually point out more non-subjective descriptive reasons for why they reached those conclusions. Like? Most obvious, to me, was the oscillator detune on example C compared to the rest. But I also think of stuff like example A's more open filter (even in what was supposed to be the closed position). Things like that, to me, don't speak of better Vs worse, superior Vs inferior, but more of things like trimpot and calibration differences. Of course things like envelope shape differences are also part of the default character of a synth, and that's a handy thing to know if you're after a particular sound. But I suppose what I'm getting at is I think most of the synths in this thread could probably be made to sound closer than the examples might suggest, at least if you can actually hear and understand the differences.

If people wanted to use a thread like this as a more serious comparison I would say you'd need to take greater care in creating the same music patterns for one thing. I can also think of many other synths, including some VST/VA's, which I regard as "more Moogy" than some of these examples, although I wouldn't like to take on example C in a full-on "Moog fight" I hope someone takes Fluxpod up on his offer, to include Minimax, if there's ever a "battle of the Moog-a-likes" comparison thread done!
Old 18th December 2010
  #285
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
My ears are crap

I can't discern Bricasti verbs from somewhat decent plugins and I've got tinnitus that plays up from time to time.
FWIW I picked C as "most Moogy" and suspected A was Roland too, although unfortunately I didn't mention that about A so you'll have to take my word heh Point being I can't discern Bricasti from decent plugins either. So either I have bad ears too or, just maybe, Bricasti isn't quite as bees knees as some think?
Old 18th December 2010
  #286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
My ears are crap heh

I can't discern Bricasti verbs from somewhat decent plugins and I've got tinnitus that plays up from time to time.
..
I try to spot artifacts in the sounds - and I'd wager most other people do so too.
great job, Yozzer, goldenbeers and others etc. also cudos to ppl realizing D isn't a moog, but has that trademark Roland bubbly, and (much more) powerful/dirtier self-oscillation. because they can be set to sound identical, yet in a very small area of overlap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robonaut View Post
It's a dark day for all of us Studio Electronics fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
I think I like to keep my filter knobs set relatively dark, and the Studio Electronics' tempered sound in the upper registers could be a plus for some tracks. So, as mentioned before, perhaps it's just not the synth for the forcefull Moog style and mighty basses.
yep, that's my experience with ATC-X and very similar with nova ed. SE-1X.

altough they have shortcomings, like slow envelopes/smear (or noisy ARP filter on ATCX), but there is a lot to like about SE ATC-X and SE-1X. for example, the sweet open high end bandwidth completely missing from LP. SE-1x is slightly better for bass than ATC, even tho not on the level of vintages. but some atcx and se1x leads i even preffered to my mini. fwiw. ATC can do filter and vco FM unlike SE1X (BIG handicap). i found ATC-X warmer and juicier? than LP, putting both thru their paces much further than it is possible to show with these short examples. they definetely excell at different things. i even made some extended demos of both, but decided to wait with posting, until the poll was over..

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeonlux View Post
But yeah, I guess I am a Roland slut, confirmed in a blind test. No wonder I jizzed all over when I first got my SH-2.

Thanks Tom - this was, in a word, splendid.
you're welcome .. you, Roland slut you.. heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
So, clusterchord what synth do YOU like the best? We haven't heard that yet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Cluster: great shootout, but we still haven't heard what you prefer or think you'll end up with?
well i own and love my minimoog, sh2 and jupiter8 - all phenomenal in their own right, for different things obviously. had LP and ATCX on tryout.

in my personal opinion/experience: LP i found a bit lacking for typical meat'n'potatoes moog sounds. first bcs of completely shaved off high end, as if there is a cloth over spkrs. slower envs than mini, faster than SE. overall, dirtier sound with less headroom. and smaller maximum filter envelope depth (??).. which can't make the punchy pow pow like mini or jp8 can (in the poll examples iv'e used settings viable/possible for all five, otherwise it be too obvious).

all that being said, once you select 2-pole or 1-pole filter, the LP comes alive and opens up HF a tad bit, especially with touch of overdrive. very usable in modern styles,, can do dirtyness, grittyness.. grindy 2-step sweeps etc.. i like it. also extremely nice results with filter FM and vco FM mayhem.

i'm leaning to seeing it it as a nice character 1/2-pole synth, rather than a small moog (which i still like Source best for). even tho poll shows things differently, it hasn't changed my own impression - im thinking perhaps this is bcs many ppl here coincede "vintageness" with little bit of dirt. which LP definetely has. but there ain't no dirt of that type on any of the vintages i use. not to say that can't be nice for some things. but its a different sonic stamp. low end on phattys compared to mini, sounds EQ-ed with some smear, and uneven amplitude btwn low notes, whereas mini (and to an extent SH-2) sounds as if you had it run thru a Urei compressor or something. focused, tight and deadly. mini/sh2 feature fine saturation but not dirt. there is a fine line between the two.

SE ATC-X is some sort of pure/uber clean version of moog-ishness. very versatile due to its four filters. i liked both the "moog" and "sem" even tho they aint exact copies, but some kind of softer version. beautiful leads and sweeps are possible with this. lack of saturation allows for highest end to come thru untouched. this does have its advantages sometimes. playing straight sounds with not much modulation, like with LP, reveals a little too stable and uniform oscillators. but as i said, overall i feel basic sound of SE stuff is bigger and richer than LP. can be carved out with things later. i could get ATC close to Phatty sound with some outboard, some additional dirt. but its not possible other way arround.

conclusion is, as always, they are all great. just depends what you need, what sonic character talks to you which doesnt do anything to you. if i had to walk away with just two it be A and C.

fwiw, i could perhaps see myself getting a slim phatty down the road, for things it excells at. i need a small memory-capable (non vintage) analog for my live endevours. so far, im still waiting for a perfect one. maybe Tom makes a new SEM with memory .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
...i've heard people say JP8 isn't as good at bass or etc compared to some synths but i think this demo proves it's more than capable, a single voice is keeping up with a freakin' minimoog d.
this is EXACTLY why i sneaked a polyphonic in this test. and this one in peticular. it fooled many, many ppl into thinking its mini or some other big sounding american monophonic. because it is that big. times eight. tho clear sign it wasnt a minimoog was its incapability of true full self-oscillation. dunno how no one picked up on that? also ever so slight stepping of filter, due to its memory, dac/adc and multiplexers (like all old polys have).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
The thing I like about these polls is, it strips away the hype and B.S. Your ears are your ears and you like what you like.
indeeduimendo. exactimundo mi amigo heh



in the end, big THANKS to all for participating. i hope you had fun, and some even found it informative.
Old 18th December 2010
  #287
Lives for gear
 
Xero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
this is EXACTLY why i sneaked a polyphonic in this test. and this one in peticular. it fooled many, many ppl into thinking its mini or some other big sounding american monophonic. because it is that big. times eight. tho clear sign it wasnt a minimoog was its incapability of true full self-oscillation. dunno how no one picked up on that? also ever so slight stepping of filter, due to its memory, dac/adc and multiplexers (like all old polys have).
the self-osc sounded nice on the jp8 though, so i guess that's why no one complained!

was the jp8 12bit or 14bit? supposedly that might make a minor difference in stepping, but we're talking 4096 vs 16384 steps, both of which is wayy higher than MIDI which is 128, i've never personally noticed that much stepping.

I measure my slider travel about 35mm long. that's 0.0085mm per step.
midi CC would be 0.27mm...
Old 19th December 2010
  #288
Lives for gear
 
grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
also ever so slight stepping of filter, due to its memory, dac/adc and multiplexers (like all old polys have).
How can any synth have filter stepping when it is voltage controlled?

This is a genuine question - not slagging the JP8 here (for once) - i can of course understand that a primitive digitized slider/knob will advance a control voltage in audible increments when moved by hand.

But a hardware envelope/LFO should be as smooth as butter being only a voltage going up or down, right?

Could some of these filter steps not also be due to "internal electronic resonances", inner ear frequency sensitivity or any other number of factors?

Also, i have never noticed filter stepping in the JP4 (which is odd, because it certainly must have older digital tech than a JP8), whereas the DW8000 (being a genuine hybrid) has some nasty stepping when using slow envelopes/LFO's
Old 19th December 2010
  #289
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
How can any synth have filter stepping when it is voltage controlled?

This is a genuine question - not slagging the JP8 here (for once) - i can of course understand that a primitive digitized slider/knob will advance a control voltage in audible increments when moved by hand.

But a hardware envelope/LFO should be as smooth as butter being only a voltage going up or down, right?

Could some of these filter steps not also be due to "internal electronic resonances", inner ear frequency sensitivity or any other number of factors?

Also, i have never noticed filter stepping in the JP4 (which is odd, because it certainly must have older digital tech than a JP8), whereas the DW8000 (being a genuine hybrid) has some nasty stepping when using slow envelopes/LFO's
ADC / DAC -> That means front panel control.

Not Env or LFO.
Old 19th December 2010
  #290
Lives for gear
 
grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
ADC / DAC -> That means front panel control.

Not Env or LFO.
Yes, but as i read it people here claimed to hear stepping on these clips, and i would have imagined these to be recorded without manual control?
Old 19th December 2010
  #291
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
Yes, but as i read it people here claied to hear stepping on these clips, and i would have imagined these to be recorded without manual control?
You're imagining too much.
Old 19th December 2010
  #292
Lives for gear
 
grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
You're imagining too much.
I am?
Old 19th December 2010
  #293
Old 19th December 2010
  #294
Lives for gear
 
grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
yes.
Fair enough.
Old 19th December 2010
  #295
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
Fair enough.
is it?
Old 19th December 2010
  #296
Lives for gear
 

May I ask about the signal path of the test one more time?
Old 19th December 2010
  #297
Lives for gear
 
grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
is it?
Sure is.
Old 19th December 2010
  #298
Gear Maniac
 

i love it how these threads turns out to be something where you hope you guess the right answer or think that there is a right answer, surely your ears suck if you don't hit it right with the most expensive vintage synth.. and then at the same time you want more leaders less sheep
Old 19th December 2010
  #299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bauwerk View Post
i love it how these threads turns out to be something where you hope you guess the right answer or think that there is a right answer, surely your ears suck if you don't hit it right with the most expensive vintage synth.. and then at the same time you want more leaders less sheep
i don't really get what youre saying here, but I imagine you could nail all of the 5 synths if you had exprience of them and had the time and motivation to listen in depth and over a long period to the examples.

speaking for myself I skipped through the examples one time and based my opinion on that.
Old 19th December 2010
  #300
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
i don't really get what youre saying here, but I imagine you could nail all of the 5 synths if you had exprience of them and had the time and motivation to listen in depth and over a long period to the examples.

speaking for myself I skipped through the examples one time and based my opinion on that.
most people probably could, names and faces, knowing who calls when the phone rings without them saying their name..

nah reading the thread earlier this week at work i just noticed the hesitation, hey what if i pick a vst .. or well along the lines of that and it strikes me ass odd as if there was a best sound since it all depends on the track at hand
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
rhythminmind / Gear Shoot-Outs / Sound File Comparisons / Audio Tests
6
Derp / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
34
ISedlacek / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump