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Track has glitches when uploaded to Myspace, SoundCoud etc Dynamics Plugins
Old 27th March 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Track has glitches when uploaded to Myspace, SoundCloud etc

I've recently got my production back from the mastering house and decided to upload a preview to Myspace and SoundCloud.

When uploaded to Myspace I could hear some noises in the track on playback that was not there originally. I thought okay, lets upload to SoundCloud which has a better player and see what happens. The SoundCloud player played back the same noises.

This is really worrying because I dont know where these noises came from and I don't want to make more tracks and get them mastered, just for them to be un-listenable when being streamed over the web, which is where they are potentially going to be sold.

Below are links to my myspace account, soundcloud account and a part of the original file :-

Myspace :- Kidd Ghost on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

SoundCloud :- Kidd Ghost - Tracks - SoundCloud

Link to the original file :- Download Get Down Low (Preview).mp3 from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way



The track was made in Logic Pro 7 where I low cutted, high cutted, compressed and equalized instruments appropriately. It was the bounced from there at 24 bit/44100khz with around -3db headroom for the engineer to play with. It was then sent to the mastering house where he done his thing and sent it back to me as a 16 bit/44100khz Wav file. To make the preview it was then imported into a fresh Logic Pro file where i just automated the volume and bounced to MP3 with these settings :-


Bit Rate Mono - 160kbps

Bit Rate Stereo - 320kbps

Use VBR - Un-Ticked

Use Best Encoding - Ticked

Filter Frequencies Below 10hz - Ticked

Stereo Mode - Normal

Bounced in Realtime Mode



Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is really bothering me. If I cannot get this sorted, then there would be no point producing tracks just to have some noise, glitches destroy it when uploaded to the web.


Chauvin (Kidd Ghost)
Old 27th March 2010
  #2
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Simonator's Avatar
 

For Soundcloud, I personally upload a 24 bit undithered wav/aiff.

Soundcloud always converts & streams back 128kbps... but you can upload large files.

I think if you upload 320 kbps, it's then gonna make a 128 from your 320.... ie an mp3 of an mp3 = NOT GOOD!!!!

Try uploading a high quality wav/aif
Old 27th March 2010
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

I'll give it a shot and post back.

What about Myspace though?
Old 27th March 2010
  #4
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauvin View Post
It was then sent to the mastering house where he done his thing and sent it back to me as a 16 bit/44100khz Wav file. To make the preview it was then imported into a fresh Logic Pro file where i just automated the volume and bounced to MP3 with these settings :-


Bit Rate Mono - 160kbps

Bit Rate Stereo - 320kbps

Use VBR - Un-Ticked

Use Best Encoding - Ticked

Filter Frequencies Below 10hz - Ticked

Stereo Mode - Normal

Bounced in Realtime Mode


Myspace however has an upload file size limit... so you need to upload mp3s (I believe.... haven't personally used MS in a long while.)

Your mp3 encoding process is far from ideal here... For best results:

1.) DON'T USE LOGIC... its mp3 encoding is not great. Instead use LAME encoding from within Audacity or Audiofile Engineering Wave Editor.... or even if you upgrade iTunes to LAME codec will be better than Logic.

2.) Use a 24 bit file as source.... ask your ME to send you a 24 bit undithered, but mastered, copy.

3.) Stereo Mode... use JOINT STEREO... WAY BETTER QUALITY!!!!

4.) Do NOT filter freq's below 10 Hz (not that you will see that option outside of Logic)

5.) BOUNCE OFFLINE! (not that you will see this option outside of Logic!)

6.) In this case, you are probably WAY better off with VBR... I'm sure Soundcloud & Myspace will both support it, so might as well tae advantage since it's much better quality.

... basically... it's just you currently have all your settings wrong... once you fix that, it should sound much better.
Old 27th March 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Simonator's Avatar
 

You'll possibly find this answers a lot of questions for you...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...-encoding.html
Old 27th March 2010
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Thanks a lot

I will adjust my settings and encode with audacity/lame instead.

I will post back the results.
Old 27th March 2010
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Emailed my ME and now waiting for him to send me a 24 bit un-dithered Wav file.

While waiting I just uploaded a 16 bit Wav file to SoundCloud and the noise/glitches still appeared out of nowhere


I'm beginning to think its my internet connection


For info sake, I am wired via ethernet cable to the internet and Im using a Mac Pro Intel on OSX 10.4.11.
Old 27th March 2010
  #8
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Eric J's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauvin View Post


I beginning to think its my internet connection


For info sake, I am wired via ethernet cable to the internet and Im using a Mac Pro Intel on OSX 10.4.11.
Your internet connection is not going to magically alter the content of a file transferred across the wire.
Old 27th March 2010
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric J View Post
Your internet connection is not going to magically alter the content of a file transferred across the wire.
What's with the cheek?

I come on here asking for help and then get a stupid remark like this. If you want to help me out, by all means do so, but don't be cocky about it!
Old 27th March 2010
  #10
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Eric J's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauvin View Post
What's with the cheek?

I come on here asking for help and then get a stupid remark like this. If you want to help me out, by all means do so, but don't be cocky about it!
Umm, why are you so mad?

I am trying to help you out by telling you that files don't get altered when they are transferred across the wire. It's not like analog tape where the more you copy it, the more the quality degrades. Digital is digital is digital. Its all ones and zeros. You can copy or transfer as many times as you want, nothing is going to get "lost".

But hey, if you are going to get all huffy about it, then forget it.
Old 27th March 2010
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric J View Post
Umm, why are you so mad?

I am trying to help you out by telling you that files don't get altered when they are transferred across the wire. It's not like analog tape where the more you copy it, the more the quality degrades. Digital is digital is digital. Its all ones and zeros. You can copy or transfer as many times as you want, nothing is going to get "lost".

But hey, if you are going to get all huffy about it, then forget it.

Im not mad, its just I found you a bit cocky when you write "magically alter the content" instead of just writing "its not going to alter the content".

Thank-you for your advice, at least I can cross that off the list of possible causes
Old 28th March 2010
  #12
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauvin View Post
Emailed my ME and now waiting for him to send me a 24 bit un-dithered Wav file.

While waiting I just uploaded a 16 bit Wav file to SoundCloud and the noise/glitches still appeared out of nowhere


I'm beginning to think its my internet connection


For info sake, I am wired via ethernet cable to the internet and Im using a Mac Pro Intel on OSX 10.4.11.
Very odd that with two entirely different sources the same glitching occurred.

Crucially... was it the SAME glitching, in the SAME part of the track?

I don't really know what I'm listening for since I don't know how it should sound if it were not problematic... but if you tell me at what point (mins/secs) into the track your issues are I'll try to take a listen when I've got my studio fired up tomorrow.
Old 28th March 2010
  #13
I actually have the same problem with soundcloud, I uploaded a track just a few weeks ago and the drums sound glitchy when played back there. (ie: the snare or the kick drum sounds like its played twice very quickly). I didn't try to troubleshoot this since it was not a finished version of the track and no mastering done, but would be interested to know whats wrong as well.
Old 28th March 2010
  #14
how loud are those tracks? have you tried lowering the volume?
if you're peaking the volume, your own studio soundcard/converter is often able to smooth out those (intersample) peaks. The software limiter might "miss" those peaks as well.
Adding one conversion/compression step in some online server might push it over the edge and cause these peaks to become noticable.
Old 28th March 2010
  #15
I bounced mine so that its at -0.2 db. I think that should help prevent intersample peaks, but might not be enough?
Old 28th March 2010
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
how loud are those tracks? have you tried lowering the volume?
if you're peaking the volume, your own studio soundcard/converter is often able to smooth out those (intersample) peaks. The software limiter might "miss" those peaks as well.
Adding one conversion/compression step in some online server might push it over the edge and cause these peaks to become noticable.
+1

... this occurred to me just as I was nodding off to sleep last night (such is the sad life of a geek!)

If you convert to 320 & look at your waveform in an editor, it appears pretty damn close to your original wav... nice & under control.

However, even at 192 kbps, you start to get wild spikes jumping out the top of your waveform beyond what should be the normal level the track was limited to.

With BOTH soundcloud & myspace doing their OWN conversion (which is presumably optimised for smoothest streaming, rather than quality) to a MAXIMUM of 128 kbps, you are going to have some nasty spikes in that mp3.

To allow for this, you need to lower the volume of your source. The more you lower the volume, the less clipping you are going to get.... but (in the words of Lagerfeldt) obviously we need to compromise here, as people want their tracks loud... so -0.3dB for the source is the level Lagerfeldt recommends.
Old 28th March 2010
  #17
Lagerfeldt obviously knows what he's doing.
Consider this though...
0,4 or 0,2% below absolute square wave, before format processing is taking chances. That is REALLY LOUD I wonder honestly why that couldn't be a couple of notches less. It's relative loudness, since it's software, yes, but there is a ceiling. Plus, MP3s or flash algos reduce content information, by interpolating the "experience" of the music. Recreating "their" version of the waveform. It is by far NOT an 1:1 copy of a lossless digital audio file (like wav or aiff or FLAC)
Old 28th March 2010
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Last night I uploaded the unmastered version of the track to SoundCloud which has -3db headroom and that still produced these crazy weird noise/glitches.
Then I bounced off the Kick, Tom, Shaker and Hi Hat only from the original project to isolate some instruments. I then uploaded these files at 24 bit Wav with -3db (unmastered) headroom to SoundCloud and the problem was still there.
So now I know that the problem is coming from the source and with -3db headroom, there shouldn't be any inter-sampled peaks, but I am going to lower the volume more and see what happens.


The noises/glitches are mainly at the start of the track like a low level distortion/noise/rumble and then when the hi hat comes in it gets worse. Also when the main synth comes in with the beat, there is a lot rumble/noise in the background that wasn't there originally!


I've just got the 24 bit undithered master back from my ME, so I'm going to upload that and see what happens aswell.


Thanks for your help guys
Old 28th March 2010
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Just figured I'd pop in and reccommend RazorLAME as a front end for mp3 encoding. I've been using it for ages and it's great.
Old 28th March 2010
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Just uploaded a mastered 24 bit version with 0.7db headroom and the noises were still there. The noise/glitches were a little bit quieter and I mean it was a very slight difference.

I also made some 192kbps (VBR & CBR) Mp3's from the 24bit Wav with -0.3db & -0.7db and they sounded like hell when uploaded.

I really am confused now and have run out of ideas. I've searched google for hours looking for a similar case and nothing
Old 31st March 2010
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Hello, I did find more users with this problem on the sc forums, but no answer. The problem must be in the file, since most ppl dont have this issue. About the intersample overs: You could try either the Schwa bitter or ssl xism plug , both freeware intersample analyzers, to check this out. Or you could upload with more then 6 db of headroom, overs can easaly produce peaks more then 3 db

If you find a solution, im all ears
Old 8th April 2010
  #22
Gear Nut
 
Mojo's Avatar
 

Try it with -1dBFS headroom? (please note lack of decimal point)
Old 12th November 2010
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
korejekt's Avatar
 

i will bump this old thread because i wanted to mention that this is not an isolated incident, i've read all over the net but could not find a solution as of yet.

i have a project that has tight and clear beats, with slow but glitchy hihats and snares. i used 2caudio aether a lot on these elements.

i tried several things, all starting with a 24bit wav with headroom of about 3-6db, so that should cover headroom issues. the wav sounds as it should.

there's something "wrong" when converting the wav to 128kbit, be it on my PC for my own listening, or by soundcloud, or bandcamp. everywhere, it's the same result.

converting the wav to 320 (offline) results in a pleasant quality, the artifacts only hearable for myself (since i hear the 24bit wav a million times), but not for other listeners. so 320 seems to have a tiny bit of this issue, whereas lower bitrates seem to create worse results.

i've read somewhere that there could be a problem in the high frequencies (10khz+ iirc) which cause to create these artifacts. i am prone to believe in this statement, since i used aether heavily and therefore there must be a lot of reverb wash in frequencies above 10khz. but i don't know more about this, especially not what to look out for or which freqs to cut etc, or the solution to the whole issue.

i thought i chime in the discussion, maybe the remark about the high frequencies gives a new twist to it.
Old 12th November 2010
  #24
Deleted User
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I would also add that Myspace compresses the **** out of your tracks when you upload them. You could always join bandcamp.com as they don't compress your tracks and you can link and embed them into myspace.
Old 12th November 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
 
ChristianRock's Avatar
 

Does anyone still use Myspace? The last few times I tried checking out bands/artists on Myspace, my Anti-Virus went crazy and blocked the pages at some point. Usually when trying to check out the artist's pictures (which means the virus was on Myspace itself).

Just stay away from Myspace. The sound quality is ridiculously bad anyway.
Old 12th November 2010
  #26
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Tarkovsky's Avatar
 

It's an absolute ****ing headache to look at, the music takes ages to load, it's populated entirely by adolescents and yet the music industry won't give up on it. Anyway I don't see the point. Also it's owned by Rupert Murdoch.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Chauvin's Avatar
 

Cured/Fixed Problem

Sorry to bring this old thread up but I've cured the problem I had with glitches & pops.

I erased & reformatted my hard drives so they were basically new. I then upgraded to OSX 10.6.3 Snow Leopard from OSX 10.4.11 Tiger. I also upgraded to Logic 9 from Logic 7 and re-installed my plugins, drivers etc. After making a track on the new system, I uploaded it to Soundcloud & it plays on there, with no problems what so ever.

I'm pretty sure the actual problem was something to do with Logic 7 but I cant be certain on that. Hope this helps other people out there.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
For Soundcloud, I personally upload a 24 bit undithered wav/aiff.

Soundcloud always converts & streams back 128kbps... but you can upload large files.

I think if you upload 320 kbps, it's then gonna make a 128 from your 320.... ie an mp3 of an mp3 = NOT GOOD!!!!

Try uploading a high quality wav/aif
See I was uploading 24bit WAV files to Sound Cloud and they were always distorting particularly in the high frequencies. I now upload in 320kbps MP3 and it is much better, although still poor in the scheme of things.

Sound Cloud recommends uploading 320kbps files.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #29
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauvin View Post
Sorry to bring this old thread up but I've cured the problem I had with glitches & pops.

I erased & reformatted my hard drives so they were basically new. I then upgraded to OSX 10.6.3 Snow Leopard from OSX 10.4.11 Tiger. I also upgraded to Logic 9 from Logic 7 and re-installed my plugins, drivers etc. After making a track on the new system, I uploaded it to Soundcloud & it plays on there, with no problems what so ever.

I'm pretty sure the actual problem was something to do with Logic 7 but I cant be certain on that. Hope this helps other people out there.
That's just odd though...

If your issue was as far back in the chain as your OS & DAW, then surely the issues would have been inherent & audible in your mix & master... not only when it got uploaded to soundcloud.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #30
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primativ View Post
See I was uploading 24bit WAV files to Sound Cloud and they were always distorting particularly in the high frequencies. I now upload in 320kbps MP3 and it is much better, although still poor in the scheme of things.

Sound Cloud recommends uploading 320kbps files.
All of this seems to totally go against logic.

... Apart from Soundcloud recommending that you upload 320kbps... because that will obviously MASSIVELY reduce their server requirements.

Converting a 128 kbps mp3, using an mp3 as a source, sounds like total heresy to me!


Nowadays, I personally upload 16 bit dithers. Although 24 bit might have a very very tiny edge as an mp3 conversion source, with 16 bit I can send tracks to people's Soundcloud drop box, and they can then burn the instantly to disc should they wish (or still be able to rip themselves an mp3 if they prefer.).
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