The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Going soft??????? Yep, finally seen the light. yippeeeeee! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 30th March 2010
  #181
Lives for gear
 
metrosonus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pier View Post
Just wanted to point out that most synths today are digital anyway.
this isn't directed directly at you, but that is the biggest misconception when it comes to saying hardware synths are just software in a box anyway .. there are some really good ones (VSTi) but there's a reason they are 300$ as opposed to the 800+ of the hardware ones (cehaper used lol).

Why put the work and quality into a softsynth when your target audience (mostly 15-35 year old guys) is mot likely going to end up stealing the thing anyway? The effects usually suck, the filters make everything sound like a toy piano half the time, you have to compress the output to make it louder, fuller etc.. all the presets are trance I'm being sarcastic, but for the most part I believe it's true.

With hardware, it's easier and faster to get the results I want.
Old 30th March 2010
  #182
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
As a DJ, when I play Armin van Buuren ft Sharon den Adel - In and Out of Love in the clubs, people go nuts. If it was done either with a VST or hardware, I couldn't give two (you know what), just as long as the people are dancing (especially the hot girls), that's all I really care about. It's a great song by the way.
+1000000 not about the armin thing though, but about the FACT that the best music we ever heard can be made with vst's.

The melodies are so much important than the purity of a waveform or whatever. Good music can be made with vst's, excellent original music is done with only vst's.
NOBODY cares about how good the synth sounds, I dont care myself. When I listen to a song, I listen to the complexity of the songs, the interesting melodies, the percussion crazyness. Rarely i'll say to myself: oh that was sounding bad, must be because of vst'S. NO! you can make a vst sound ****in good actually. If I can, everyone in here can.

Yes they sounds better, but for the music I do, one of the only reasons I buy and will keep on buying analog, is because it makes me feel competent and makes me feel like a musician, not a freakin nerds that switched from starcraft to FL studio. Of course, my crazy sounds feels a BIT better and my pads seems to take a BIT more space into a mix filled with 15 tracks , but still, give me all the analog you have, and I won't be able to make whats this guy is doing with only vst's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZM6A6AgeTA&feature=related
I mean, only vst: YouTube - Kettel - Wim Hoffman @ Volleyed Iron

Analog gives you inspiration, great, I agree. Not using computer? great. Of course workin on a computer all day is not great, but I feel like I have TONS and TONS more flexibility workin with vst's, analog and hardware digital and DAW'S, than workin only with a sequencer and analogs. But at the same time, this discussion is so personal. A lot of you guys love 80's music, where big pads was making the song (almost). I come from a psytrance IDM generation, where you need more than a good sounding pad to be listened to.
I sure would love to see more techniques threads.

all reaktor stuff: YouTube - Anahata - Moments

as long as I know that this can be done only vst wise, I'll shut the **** up
Old 30th March 2010
  #183
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by metrosonus View Post
there are some really good ones (VSTi) but there's a reason they are 300$ as opposed to the 800+ of the hardware ones (cehaper used lol).
Well, duh - it's because for the latter you need other people besides coders.

Quote:
Why put the work and quality into a softsynth when your target audience (mostly 15-35 year old guys) is mot likely going to end up stealing the thing anyway?
If they're going to steal it anyway, what sense would it make to do the effort to build it in the first place?
Old 30th March 2010
  #184
Gear Nut
 
00Sun-Electro00's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
Don't demo, borrow, steal a bunch of plugins and
have a computer filled with crap. I know people
who've done this and they are very unproductive.

The productive producers I know who work ITB have
a very limited range of the best tools. Everything
else is clutter and gets deleted.
Amazing advice, that is a baaad road to go down. I'm realizing it's the reason my ITB is so unproductive sometimes, thank you!
Old 30th March 2010
  #185
Lives for gear
 
kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat87 View Post
+

all reaktor stuff: YouTube - Anahata - Moments

as long as I know that this can be done only vst wise, I'll shut the **** up

is this the same ANAHATA from soundclick ?

SoundClick artist: ANAHATA - free mp3 for meditation,relaxation,dreaming,sleeping,yoga

He is a fellow ambient/new age artist and a very skillful one, I admire him alot for what he is doing with music.

I am not suprised he made such a great track. He always makes great music.
Old 30th March 2010
  #186
Gear Maniac
 

Regarding digital hardware I'm mostly with you.. (except on reverbs(yet)).
I don't miss a virus or a nord rack with something like omnisphere or zebra, absynth etc.. I can make pretty much the same sounds with less hassle. And integration with daws is more extense... However analog synths is a complete different story. You say they have less possibilities and they limit you... I'll prove you wrong.

While digital synths might have more routing and modulation possibilities they all have a finite number of sound possibilities they can generate (no matter how vast)... Analog synths on the other hand have fewer routing and modulation possibilities... no doubt about that, but they can generate an infinite number of sounds... a potentiometer has no steps.. is pure continous current. I think everyone will agree on this point. (this is also why I'm a bit nostalgic on tape and vinyl(except for editing ))

Of course if you need to generate evolving soundscapes it would be really expensive in the analog domain, but if you're focusing on melodic compositions there's really nothing limiting you.. the sound you'll make analogically will be 100% unique and the melody depending if you're using quantisation or not should be unique.

So yes, VSTs and digital harware are generally cheaper and in some aspects more versatile, but however it may seem weird they have all toghether less sounds than any analog synth alone.
Comparing the two is like comparing a real pinball with a videogame one.

You might like one or the other better, that's up to you... personally I like both and I like integrating the two systems...
Old 31st March 2010
  #187
Gear Nut
 

^^^ agree, both is where its at. having one or two key analogs added into the new school vast expanse of sound creating capabilities, is perfect!

I have my DAW a TI and a LP with some foogers but I think I'm changing it to an FRXS/PRO One with an ORB and keep a fooger or two. But ultimately it's my little analog corner for when I want that flavor. I can already take care of so much business with VSTis and the Virus that having one analog is just frosting on the cake.

I come from a full analog past though. Back in those days when you wished you had 8 arms to tweak the boards while the DAT was running and your surrounded by 20 analogs and 4 Drum boxes. I definitely don't miss those caveman days..lol but it sure was a gear *****s dream studio. Thank goodness for DAWs and automation and all the modern amenities, makes things simple and less tedious.
Old 31st March 2010
  #188
Gear Maniac
 
obliterations's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler477 View Post
This is what I'm saying... sometimes having too many options "gets in the way".... limitations also make it easy to make decisions.
I couldn't agree more.

Also, being experienced in both plug-ins and hardware, I'd have to say that something as simple as a guitar distortion pedal can sound a lot better than a plug-in emulating the same effect.

I'm not gonna say one is better than the other, but completely eliminating the hardware side of things is going to box you in!!!! Your "sound" will be limited.
Old 31st March 2010
  #189
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 

I'm primarily a technology / software guy. I love the integration and convenience, however I recently got a Tetra to round off my setup with a nice little analog synth and I'm in heaven!

Digital hardware...? Screw it. I can live with this though.

Strobe w/ Tetra
Old 31st March 2010
  #190
Gear Head
 

After 10 years... imagine selling your collection of VSTi softsynths
and plugins on vintage 100GB USB stick... will there be a price for it at all?
Old 31st March 2010
  #191
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumbsucker View Post
After 10 years... imagine selling your collection of VSTi softsynths
and plugins on vintage 100GB USB stick... will there be a price for it at all?
Do you want to make music or 'invest' ?
Old 31st March 2010
  #192
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumbsucker View Post
After 10 years... imagine selling your collection of VSTi softsynths
and plugins on vintage 100GB USB stick... will there be a price for it at all?
Good point...
Old 31st March 2010
  #193
Gear Head
 

Im not making music for money so splashing funds on something I can't sell later is not the option.

in other words: Im not rich enough to buy cheap stuff.

... and turning knobs on hardware is much mo fun.

crumb

Last edited by Crumbsucker; 31st March 2010 at 01:25 PM.. Reason: one "F" was missing in action
Old 31st March 2010
  #194
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mans View Post
Do you want to make music or 'invest' ?
Why can't you do both?
Old 31st March 2010
  #195
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100th Monkey View Post
Why can't you do both?
You can. You can also get unlucky of course. A sampler worth $3000 a few years ago now sells for $500. That's a $2500 loss. A write off you will never have to do with a $400 software sampler.

Me personally whether hard/soft I don't care about resell value. I care about how it will inhense my musical process.
Old 31st March 2010
  #196
Gear Head
 

Well sampler just can't be good example as it is nearly a computer that plays what you put in it... but if it is good product, people will still want to try it... like Akai S-3000.


Actually I understand why an established producer that works on commercial releases would go software. It's all in the speed and ease of switching between projects.
Old 31st March 2010
  #197
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumbsucker View Post
Well sampler just can't be good example as it is nearly a computer that plays what you put in it... but if it is good product, people will still want to try it... like Akai S-3000.
Tell that to the people who 'invested' in one a few years ago

I bet they did not think they would stand to lose so much. Technology moves forward at a rapid pace and there's no telling what software is capable of ten or even five years from now.
Old 31st March 2010
  #198
Here for the gear
 

Fail

Fail
Old 31st March 2010
  #199
Lives for gear
 
rachel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mans View Post
So in other words you can only listen to analog synths directly or analog synths recorded on and played back from an analog medium?

Wow that sucks.
You are being facetious.

I can't listen to music for very long that is heavily compressed or
is in some sort of low bitrate format like MP3. CD's I can listen to, no problem
but if it is coming off the computer, it's not as good. Coming off my
DAW isn't too much of a problem because I don't compress the hell out of
everything or drive it to clipping. All I know is I don't like MP3 and its
ilk and I don't like heavily compressed recordings which seems to be
the fashion these days.


rachel
Old 31st March 2010
  #200
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel View Post
You are being facetious.
Yes I was. One's allowed to every now and then no?
Old 31st March 2010
  #201
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by metrosonus View Post
Why put the work and quality into a softsynth when your target audience (mostly 15-35 year old guys) is mot likely going to end up stealing the thing anyway? The effects usually suck, the filters make everything sound like a toy piano half the time, you have to compress the output to make it louder, fuller etc.. all the presets are trance I'm being sarcastic, but for the most part I believe it's true.

With hardware, it's easier and faster to get the results I want.
I had a post about this but I didn't post it because I figured nobody would care. BUT you did hit a point--part of the problem w/software insts is the actual vst/au format.

The whole plugin idea needs advancement, and I think DAWS are too limiting. DAWS should be more plugin frames, where meters, gain sliders, panning, are all plugins. Plugins should have X in Y out capabilities for convolution based simulations of consoles. Daws should allow me to drag and drop a control off a plugin onto a console strip to build a custom console like interface. and finally, plugins should be able to easily host other plugins...so that the filter on synth X is really a plugin of the filter that could be swapped out with other filters.
Old 31st March 2010
  #202
Gear Addict
 
target_destroyed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mans View Post
A sampler worth $3000 a few years ago now sells for $500. That's a $2500 loss. A write off you will never have to do with a $400 software sampler.
E-bay for the win. Of course if you buy everything brand new you're going to lose some money, unless you keep it forever. If you buy used generally you can break even and sometimes make money. I bought a used Virus KC 5 years ago and sold it 2 years ago for the same price I paid. Free Virus KC for 3 years? That's a helluva deal.
Old 31st March 2010
  #203
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
Daws should allow me to drag and drop a control off a plugin onto a console strip to build a custom console like interface. and finally, plugins should be able to easily host other plugins...so that the filter on synth X is really a plugin of the filter that could be swapped out with other filters.
But.. but.. that would require cooperation! And standardization! And fixing AU's MIDI woes! And ideally to have everyone give up their precious homebrew plugin format for a single high-performance industry standard! Exposing all controls to the evil outside world and letting them deal with it! Giving up precious control over MY specific convolution reverb (looking at you there, Kontakt) to those filthy SynthEdit plugins? *shivers*

On the other hand, it'd become a hell of a lot easier to create some gigantic kludge of effects routing and splitting. Your mixer would already be modular, and ideally would already have splitting/layering options up the wazoo, because MIDI processors would be plugins, too.

Not to mention what Kore instruments or Kontakt do to the regular VST preset browser (disable it, haha) - it's obvious by now that Kore is a Good Idea(tm) seeing that Steinberg and several other manufacturers copied the concept with Media Bay and that preset organization in VSTs should be overhauled anyway.
Old 31st March 2010
  #204
Lives for gear
 
teamsterjim's Avatar
Personally it's my opinion that when you build a DAW you make it for your needs by learning how to create synths and other VST/AU instruments.
I use apps that have their own SDK too.
What the use of using an expensive overbloated app when you can design your own.
Apps like Bidule for AU/VST routings is highly customizable.
Scope SDK is an amazing way to create anything on that platform.
Even if you just want to change the GUI around.
Here's a nice place where I have been learning how to create my own Modular projects on simulacast.
SynthSchool: Course categories
So if you are tired of waiting for some developer to make your life easy check out this place.
Haven't taken other classes than the Modular stuff, but the developer is a Modular God in the community so that class is perfect for me.
I can make anything I want and have 500+ Modules.
Old 31st March 2010
  #205
Quote:
Originally Posted by target_destroyed View Post
E-bay for the win. Of course if you buy everything brand new you're going to lose some money, unless you keep it forever. If you buy used generally you can break even and sometimes make money. I bought a used Virus KC 5 years ago and sold it 2 years ago for the same price I paid. Free Virus KC for 3 years? That's a helluva deal.
I generally buy new. I've lost quite a bit of cash over the years but it doesn't depress me all that much. I've learned what works for me and what doesn't.

I just consider the lost money an "extended rental fee". The only gear I never lost money on resale was an SH-32. Isn't that crazy? I paid $250 for it and it sold for the exact same price on Ebay. I never would've thought...
Old 31st March 2010
  #206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mans View Post
Do you want to make music or 'invest' ?
well... the $$ issue was brought up by the OP, so it's IMO a valid point.
Say you want to change your sound a bit, sell some synths, buy one or two others. You can do that with software, but who wants a 3 year old plug? Not that it's not worth anything as in functional tool, but the resale value is subject to high inflation; hardware has to be repaired, maintained, but for the really good pieces, there's less of a write-off.
Old 31st March 2010
  #207
Lives for gear
 

Plugins don't 'age' like synths that go into physical production. In fact one of the problems with plugins is that its way too easy to roll out massive revisions in the functionality of the instrument which creates a more or less constant learning curve provided the developer actually supports their product. Just take a look at Reaper and FL Studio. Both of those are monsters now compared to what they were only a few years ago. Then before anyone finishes learning anything its time to move onto the next hot thing in VSTs which is also subject to constant revision.

I barely recognize Voxengo GlissEQ and SPAN anymore. I mean the whole graphical user interface has been redesigned, there are internal routing options and holy cow its all confusing. The manual actually had to be split into 2x .pdfs to detail all the new additions common to the 'new' Voxengo plugins. This is weirdly enough one of the instances where I prefer using 3 year old GlissEQ because the new one confuses the hell out of me.

Resale is not something that really applies to plugins in the sense that you aren't buying a physical product. You are buying a non transferable license to use the software and the price partly reflects the fact that you don't get a physical product and your expenses are not recoupable via resale if you no longer use your license. Of course that doesn't stop people trying to flip second hand licenses on ebay but they all look dodgy as hell.

Finally, whilst on the subject of repairs and maintenance. My Xpander has always had tuning problems since I first got it and recently its become regular in the sense that the 4th voice is dropping a semi tone and the filter on the 4th voice auto closes (even when no envelope or LFO has been set to modulate the filter). This happens more or less randomly until the unit has been powered on for several hours at which point the tuning becomes relatively stable.

This synth weighs like 15kg and its huge. It cost me 120 euro to have it shipped over here and unlucky me there are literally no synth servicing places I can find in Ireland so thats another 120 euro to ship it back to the UK where I will get charged for parts if applicable, service and shipping back to ROI.

Some people might get lucky and live close to a place that can service synths and they don't experience very many problems but all you need is to have one nightmare experience and it will put you off for life. I honestly don't know what I'd do if the display failed. Half the spares for this unit are rare and getting rarer and if the survey on the yahoo groups is anything to go buy, forget about ever sourcing a display because nearly everyone taking the polls is interested in buying multiple displays when they become available in case theirs fails down the line.

Sometimes I really just feel like forgetting about the bull****, the cost, the worry over whether the investment was worth it, the worry over whether something is going to fail rendering it useless until I can source parts and find the right professional to mend it. Sometimes I just want to focus on making music with 3 year old plugins that I know how to use and which don't screw up or develop mechanical/electrical problems, lose sync, go out of tune or whatever.
Old 31st March 2010
  #208
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robobaby View Post
I honestly don't know what I'd do if the display failed.
This - OB-VFD Display Upgrade by Benden Sound Technology

Though it's pricey.
Old 31st March 2010
  #209
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
well... the $$ issue was brought up by the OP, so it's IMO a valid point.
Say you want to change your sound a bit, sell some synths, buy one or two others. You can do that with software, but who wants a 3 year old plug? Not that it's not worth anything as in functional tool, but the resale value is subject to high inflation; hardware has to be repaired, maintained, but for the really good pieces, there's less of a write-off.
Well considering that a software synth costs considerably less in the first place (about $150 for zebra2, a very capable synth), is the write off really that big of a deal? If you buy a hardware synth for $2000, use it for three years and sell it for $1850, that's a good deal no?
Old 31st March 2010
  #210
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
That's just percentages. vs absolute amounts. In any way, you'll be $150 poorer (and even more; if you put those $1850 on the bank you'd have interest accumulating on it, or you could spend it on different things).
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
axtrak / Post Production forum
0
andychamp / So much gear, so little time
1
AlanTide / So much gear, so little time
3

Forum Jump
Forum Jump