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Going soft??????? Yep, finally seen the light. yippeeeeee! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 28th March 2010
  #91
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by operaman View Post
This is a great post and sums it up. Music is a business, and this is how to survive.

Only if you want to make money from it. You know not everyone does it for the money.
Old 28th March 2010
  #92
Gear Addict
 
target_destroyed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-Trojan View Post
You know not everyone does it for the money.
+1 thumbsup I know I don't.
Old 28th March 2010
  #93
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe View Post
and by great you mean depressing right?
As an opera singer I have watched fees drop to A THIRD of what we used to get. So yea it is depressing but unfortunately it is the business at hand. It in some ways mirrors the real world economically: The middle class (mid level non superstar guy in our cases) is getting squeezed...
Old 28th March 2010
  #94
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-Trojan View Post
Only if you want to make money from it. You know not everyone does it for the money.
Then let me say that is one expensive hobby... Your money your choice no biggie.
Old 28th March 2010
  #95
Gear Addict
 

Last time I saw Kola he was spending a lot of time and energy trying to convince people that a hardware clone was better than the real thing, now he's trying to convince us that no hardware at all is an even better solution. Next it'll probably be that we shouldn't use anything to make the music, we should just write it down and send copies of the notation to people.

I don't really see the point of threads like this. Everyone has their own way of working and it's no better or worse than anyone else's.

Also, my girlfriend likes my hardware and likes watching me use it even more. She's not that interested in watching me stare at the computer screen while I check my email, surf the internet and create a patch in Reaktor though.
Old 28th March 2010
  #96
well, mister kola! let me tell you!

your dear thread here sir has only flared up my hardware addiction! you see, there's a reason people like us are all gathered here on this god forsaken forum! we got the itch my friend. hard, soft, whatever if it makes noise it's coming to my house dammit! and you see, us gearslutz are hungry.......

don't let us bite you! you'll get it too!

were coming to get you kooooooooolaaa
Old 28th March 2010
  #97
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Rusty_OHara's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilon View Post
When someone looks at a hardware va and says "it nothing more than a software in a box" they are like children looking at the sun and saying "look mom a ball of fire" .
I say that on a regular basis... the giant ball of fire in the sky that hurts my eyes and burns my skin.

I also point at the moon and say "rabbit", but I digress...
Old 28th March 2010
  #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_OHara View Post
I say that on a regular basis... the giant ball of fire in the sky that hurts my eyes and burns my skin.

I also point at the moon and say "rabbit", but I digress...
hahahahahah

wait? rabbit?
Old 28th March 2010
  #99
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target_destroyed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100th Monkey View Post
Also, my girlfriend likes my hardware and likes watching me use it even more.
heh
Old 28th March 2010
  #100
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Eric J's Avatar
If Kola is really interested in making trance, especially the type of trance played by guys like Armin Van Buuren, then it's probably a smart thing to go all software. Most of that type of stuff can be easily made using presets Sylenth1, Nexus and/or Vanguard with surprisingly little effort. In many cases, that's how it is done.

I find it very telling that he is interested in making this type of "trance" and in particular the stuff played on ASOT. Most of the stuff played on that show tends to be very formulaic and bland. The fact the he DOESN'T see it that way tells me that he must not have a lot of years in this industry because if he had, then he would have the history to remember a time when music considered "trance" wasn't quite so formulaic, generic and bland.

What is sad is that there are a thousand people like this who aspire to make this type of stuff. You see them all the time on forums such as this posting messages like "what buttons do I press to sound like AVB", or "what hardware do I need to buy to sound like Tiesto". Generally they are not at all interested in making anything innovative or new, they just want to recycle the same old garbage that turned "trance" from a respectable genre into a formulaic joke. There is a reason why the genre has lost a lot of respect from veterans of the industry and why so many newbies are drawn to it. It's like a cheap high, lacking in any real substance or character.

Anyone who's been listening to the genre more than 10 years or so remembers a time when "trance" wasn't such a dirty word and the music was teeming with fresh ideas and innovative concepts. Now those qualities have been relegated to genres such as Progressive House and "trance" has become the epitome of bland, soulless music.
Old 28th March 2010
  #101
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target_destroyed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric J View Post
What is sad is that there are a thousand people like this who aspire to make this type of stuff. You see them all the time on forums such as this posting messages like "what buttons do I press to sound like AVB", or "what hardware do I need to buy to sound like Tiesto". Generally they are not at all interested in making anything innovative or new, they just want to recycle the same old garbage that turned "trance" from a respectable genre into a formulaic joke. There is a reason why the genre has lost a lot of respect from veterans of the industry and why so many newbies are drawn to it. It's like a cheap high, lacking in any real substance or character.
IMO this applies to most forms of electronica, and software is partially to blame. Before software, electronic artists had to be able to afford hardware synths to make their music. Now any jackass can pirate some softsynths and make music. Hell, you can even make music on cellphones, it's just become way too accessible, which means the crap to good music ratio is just going to get higher as time goes on.
Old 28th March 2010
  #102
Gear Addict
 

As such if anyone wants to buy my Ti, 60, JP, MOTU 24, Kenton Pro 2000 give me a shout. I know where im putting my money.[/QUOTE]

if u cant make heat with that man, u got a problem. besides alot will say software rocks but how many of those pay for it all? just wondering cause u cant beat "free"

ps: if armin doesnt want hes gear tell him to donate to me. ill glady take that andromeda off hes hands , if its just not as good as software haha. what a joke some people who have studios full of gear, who always say that , so sell the stuff then if u aint using it.
Old 28th March 2010
  #103
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Eric J's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by target_destroyed View Post
IMO this applies to most forms of electronica, and software is partially to blame. Before software, electronic artists had to be able to afford hardware synths to make their music. Now any jackass can pirate some softsynths and make music. Hell, you can even make music on cellphones, it's just become way too accessible, which means the crap to good music ratio is just going to get higher as time goes on.
Well this is where I'll have to disagree. I hear a lot of fresh and innovative stuff in modern electronica, however, most of the innovation I hear happens in other genres. Techno, Tech House and Progressive are particularly innovative now a days with tons of fresh approaches and new ideas. Artists like Royksopp, Trentemoller, Lusine, Guy J, Gui Borretto, Charlie May, the list goes on. The one thing all these artists have in common is they are not making "trance". Sure there are copycat artists everywhere, but there is still plenty of life left in this music if you have an open mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lospat123 View Post
if u cant make heat with that man, u got a problem. besides alot will say software rocks but how many of those pay for it all? just wondering cause u cant beat "free"
I have bought and paid for all of my software. Why? Because I'm serious about making music and I need a stable system. I have learned over the years that it is better for me to work with fewer options and there isn't much else I really need to add to my setup. I'm not under any illusions that "this plugin" or "that synth" is going to suddenly vault my productions to the next level. No, the only thing that's going to do that is time and experience. Period. I've got a grand sitting in the bank and, frankly, I'm having a hard time trying to spend it because I can't think of anything that i really need.

Besides, most of the jokers pirating software are not really in it for the long haul anyway, they just want to pick out some presets and loops in the hopes of making a tune and impress their friends. They are not serious musicians.

Really, software or hardware is irrelevant, the primary requirement for making music is still talent, and that fact hasn't changed for hundreds of years. Fortunately, talent isn't something that you can buy or steal.
Old 28th March 2010
  #104
Gear Head
 
jholmes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric J View Post
Really, software or hardware is irrelevant, the primary requirement for making music is still talent, and that fact hasn't changed for hundreds of years. Fortunately, talent isn't something that you can buy or steal.
THIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetty View Post
Now you're not only doing the same as everyone else, it will also sound like everything else. I suggest you go for Reason as daw. It will definately make your music faceless.

Congratulations, now you have nothing to put you apart except musically better tracks than everyone else.
THIS

A real artist would immediately delete all presets. What happened to rigor and integrity? Eric J has some great points. The OP, well, good luck man.
Old 28th March 2010
  #105
Gear Maniac
 
Jarkko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by operaman
Then let me say that is one expensive hobby...
This is not the truth at all. Yes, quality gear costs some money, but if you get them 2nd hand and select wisely, you don't loose any money. All it requires is some start money. Actually, it is the software that has real costs because of weak resell value.

Besides, all this nonsense about switching back and forth between software and hardware is just another form of GAS. I'm sure OP will most likely get back to hardware eventually. So be honest, do yourself a favor and get both!
Old 28th March 2010
  #106
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lowkey's Avatar
 

I started out completely hardware in the early 90s as im sure alot of us here did. I was always on the front edge of technology when audio was added to Cubase, then VST fx, then vsti's. But that transition was over several years. I quickly replaced hardware samplers with the audio lanes in cubase...in fact i still do all my sampling as audio work now. Slowly i replaced hardware synths with VSTis and must have demoed just about everything that has come out. I always kept my analogue ATC1, but all my VA's or digitals were replaced.

In my opinion, VST instruments can sound better than the VA synths i have owned. So i use Reaktor for alot of stuff. However, over the last year or two I have started to revert back to hardware because i missed the hands on control....and the sound of analogue hardware provides a nice contrast in sound. I think i need to have both now...maybe i prefer atb [all the boxes] rather than itb or otb...
Old 28th March 2010
  #107
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
maybe i prefer atb [all the boxes] rather than itb or otb...
Column A and Column B here. Right tool for the job, etc. etc. etc.
Old 28th March 2010
  #108
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depulse's Avatar
I started with hardware in the mid 80s (not much other choice at the time heh ) and built up a collection of synths and samplers over time. When the VSTi revolution came I invested into new computers, time after time, bought loads of software and slowly moved to a all software studio. The last 2-3 years I've started buying hardware again.

Next on my list of purchases will be an Akai MPC1000, that together with a Virus Indigo 2 and 1-2 of my analogs (Mopho) will the basis for my compositions, no computer but still a package small enough to fit in a large backpack.

I will still use my computers for effects, mixing and finalization of tracks and from time to time to use some VSTis, but by limiting my choices for composition and arrangement, I expect to be much more productive.
Old 28th March 2010
  #109
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by target_destroyed View Post
IMO this applies to most forms of electronica, and software is partially to blame. Before software, electronic artists had to be able to afford hardware synths to make their music.
Any jackass could buy a 909 and play drums tighter in time than any human. Any jackass could buy an MPC60 and play entire samples of music that wasn't his - and then release it as his own. Outrage! Scandalous! Any jackass could sample anything at all. Why learn violin when there's a preset in the library? Why, he's putting honest hard-working violin players out of business!

And this all far, far before software was on the scene.

You think accessibility is a problem? Let's translate that to guitars - see how many great bands never would've gotten there because at age 15 they simply couldn't afford that axe? Would you be willing to make that sacrifice? It's that time of your life where you don't have loads of cash and where you will have the most hunger to express yourself, to create and to tell stories, and where you choose your future, because of all the hormone crap that's going on. It's hard to recapture that energy when you get older, which explains all the bitching about great music of yesteryear. Of course it's great; you already forgot about the ludicrously bad crap and your age played a huge role.

The problem is not the money treshold on musical gear. The problem are the jackasses. However, they rightly deserve their victory if all your tricks depend on some special expensive box in your setup.

Technological progress is already happening for more than a century; to think that music would be exempt is foolishness; to hope that it would stop just for you is even greater foolishness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jholmes View Post
A real artist would immediately delete all presets. What happened to rigor and integrity?
A real artist doesn't give a **** about what he uses for the job as long as the job gets done well, and if it's a preset doing that and they can get away with it, why not?

There's no cheating in music. Only lying.
Old 28th March 2010
  #110
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
to op best of luck.

You seem to have the right mindset. Digital sw is not digital hw is not analog hw, and it has its strengths--extreme clarity and perfection. Copy, paste, undo, save--Save As!--restore, bus bus bus bus bus parallel bus.

I appreciate in the box tunes because they are CRYSTAL clear and the power to do whatever you want is awesome. your studio is now super clean.

for me, the drawback was:
- i didn't appreciate the benefits. I want analog hw sound, its a very poopy experience
- it is not fast--sw is very slow:
1) hmm the kick is gone...well, lets wade thru each track and look at the eq. where did it go?
2) gosh the bass is too wide. How am I going to narrow it?

CLICK FEST!
Old 28th March 2010
  #111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric J View Post
Well this is where I'll have to disagree. I hear a lot of fresh and innovative stuff in modern electronica, however, most of the innovation I hear happens in other genres. Techno, Tech House and Progressive are particularly innovative now a days with tons of fresh approaches and new ideas. Artists like Royksopp, Trentemoller, Lusine, Guy J, Gui Borretto, Charlie May, the list goes on. The one thing all these artists have in common is they are not making "trance". Sure there are copycat artists everywhere, but there is still plenty of life left in this music if you have an open mind.



I have bought and paid for all of my software. Why? Because I'm serious about making music and I need a stable system. I have learned over the years that it is better for me to work with fewer options and there isn't much else I really need to add to my setup. I'm not under any illusions that "this plugin" or "that synth" is going to suddenly vault my productions to the next level. No, the only thing that's going to do that is time and experience. Period. I've got a grand sitting in the bank and, frankly, I'm having a hard time trying to spend it because I can't think of anything that i really need.

Besides, most of the jokers pirating software are not really in it for the long haul anyway, they just want to pick out some presets and loops in the hopes of making a tune and impress their friends. They are not serious musicians.

Really, software or hardware is irrelevant, the primary requirement for making music is still talent, and that fact hasn't changed for hundreds of years. Fortunately, talent isn't something that you can buy or steal.
yup, same here, paid for my software.
And I only have/want a few. why? because software plugs can lead in my case to "collecting" and "hoarding", leaving me with an arm long list of plugs I'll never really explore, and no inspiration to use any of em.
The "preset" thing seems to work for some, everybody's got different goals and ethos about their music, some sell it like McD sells their clone of the hamburger. Also I've worked with ppl. that get really nice music out of Reason.

Also, I still don't get the "f it I'm going soft/hardware".
As if it's a split in the road. It's not. Only if you want it to be.
Sound is still sound, right!?

Using Logic's plugs, impOSCar, BFD2, Korg Digital Ed., mpressor, and going to get the DSM.
A few other things like software samplers also look better to me, going to try some sample editors like the redmatica. Things can be done that would be very cumbersome if not near impossible in hardware.
Analogue and digital madness and character? For me and a couple of other geezers, it's hardware. Sure it takes longer, and more money, and juice and space, and cables, but that is also what makes it fun, and unique. Plus, from a competative POV, it's an edge over the trillions and trillions of laptop djs sporting their (same) glitch plugins. (don't want to discourage you but you better give up now ) which btw my IPhone can do too. (IPods are so 2007 )

umm yes good point, it's about artistry and skill. And most of all BLOODY good managers. Who has what, you be the judge yourself.
lovetrance.comli.com
Old 28th March 2010
  #112
Gear Addict
 
target_destroyed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Any jackass could buy a 909 and play drums tighter in time than any human. Any jackass could buy an MPC60 and play entire samples of music that wasn't his - and then release it as his own. Outrage! Scandalous! Any jackass could sample anything at all. Why learn violin when there's a preset in the library? Why, he's putting honest hard-working violin players out of business!
I think you took my comment out of context. I wasn't saying software makes people lesser musicians, I was just saying that hardware synths were very expensive in the earlier years of electronica. There are a ton more electro bands now because of the accessibilty of good tools, and unfortunately the pirating of some tools. I'm sure everyone here knows at least a couple people who used pirated software at some point.

Quote:
The problem is not the money treshold on musical gear. The problem are the jackasses.
That was my point. I'm not saying software is crappy or using software makes your music lame, I was responding to Eric J's statement about there being tons of ****ty music out because a lot of people just want to sound like their favorite artists and not do anything original. Everyone and their mother can be a "musician" these days by downloading some loops and a zillion presets and making a Myspace page.
Quote:
Technological progress is already happening for more than a century; to think that music would be exempt is foolishness; to hope that it would stop just for you is even greater foolishness.
Calm down, I made no such statement. I'm not angered by technological advancement, I'm angered by pirates, yaaarrr.
Old 28th March 2010
  #113
Lives for gear
 
alexp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Any jackass could buy a 909 and play drums tighter in time than any human. Any jackass could buy an MPC60 and play entire samples of music that wasn't his - and then release it as his own. Outrage! Scandalous! Any jackass could sample anything at all. Why learn violin when there's a preset in the library? Why, he's putting honest hard-working violin players out of business!

And this all far, far before software was on the scene.

You think accessibility is a problem? Let's translate that to guitars - see how many great bands never would've gotten there because at age 15 they simply couldn't afford that axe? Would you be willing to make that sacrifice? It's that time of your life where you don't have loads of cash and where you will have the most hunger to express yourself, to create and to tell stories, and where you choose your future, because of all the hormone crap that's going on. It's hard to recapture that energy when you get older, which explains all the bitching about great music of yesteryear. Of course it's great; you already forgot about the ludicrously bad crap and your age played a huge role.

The problem is not the money treshold on musical gear. The problem are the jackasses. However, they rightly deserve their victory if all your tricks depend on some special expensive box in your setup.

Technological progress is already happening for more than a century; to think that music would be exempt is foolishness; to hope that it would stop just for you is even greater foolishness.


A real artist doesn't give a **** about what he uses for the job as long as the job gets done well, and if it's a preset doing that and they can get away with it, why not?

There's no cheating in music. Only lying.

Yes... Software is better than hardware in your little world. We get it. Its like a stuck record.... Do you have ANYTHING else to talk about?


Seriously, this thread is like watching a car accident.


alexP
Old 28th March 2010
  #114
Gear Addict
 
target_destroyed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric J View Post
Well this is where I'll have to disagree. I hear a lot of fresh and innovative stuff in modern electronica, however, most of the innovation I hear happens in other genres. Techno, Tech House and Progressive are particularly innovative now a days with tons of fresh approaches and new ideas. Artists like Royksopp, Trentemoller, Lusine, Guy J, Gui Borretto, Charlie May, the list goes on. The one thing all these artists have in common is they are not making "trance". Sure there are copycat artists everywhere, but there is still plenty of life left in this music if you have an open mind.
Agreed, and I certainly wasn't suggesting all electro out now sucks or anything, I'm just saying that as the number of bands/musicians grows larger, so will the amount of suck you have to wade through to find the good stuff.
Old 28th March 2010
  #115
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexp View Post
Yes... Software is better than hardware in your little world. We get it. Its like a stuck record....
You're quoting the wrong guy or barking up the wrong tree, because that's not what I wrote.

target_destroyed: let's take another angle beyond gear then; music publishers are supposed to act as gatekeepers. The A&R guys sift out the crap and leave the gold.

If the gold they're leaving is - well, still crap - are they still doing their jobs? If the burden of sifting through is put back on your own shoulders, isn't that the thing that should change first and foremost?
Old 28th March 2010
  #116
Gear Addict
 
target_destroyed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
let's take another angle beyond gear then; music publishers are supposed to act as gatekeepers. The A&R guys sift out the crap and leave the gold.

If the gold they're leaving is - well, still crap - are they still doing their jobs? If the burden of sifting through is put back on your own shoulders, isn't that the thing that should change first and foremost?
I guess, but I don't think A&R people are interested in what sounds good, as opposed to what's the most marketable and will make their respective companies the most money. There's a lot of popular music out that I can't stand, Lady Gaga being a prime example. Apparently a lot of people like her stuff, I think it sucks ass (though I'm not a pop fan in general). A&R people can't account for everyone's taste, so it doesn't mean they're doing a bad job, just that not everyone likes the same stuff. To further clarify, I wasn't referring to popular music and signed artists w/ the pirating/sifting through crappy music comments. I listen to a lot of music that will never get played on the radio (electro-industrial/darkwave type stuff), so I have to seek it out myself. The search for good stuff gets harder as more and more people decide they're musicians because they pirated some softsynths.
Old 28th March 2010
  #117
Lives for gear
 

One thing we have to be careful of on this forum is not to end up like the kiddies on Kvr. I like this place for adult conversations about synths Soft or Hard.

In fact other than Muffwrigglers modular forum it's the only place to go for good advice on Electronic music and gear, so please let's have some adult talk and quit with the bashing

To the Op: You are where I was about 4 years ago. I sold all my awesome analog gear thinking I had found the holy grail....software. 6 months later I truly truly regretted my choices and had to buy up all analog again.

Sure they sound close enough for most peeps especially in Trance I doubt it matters much (had a lot of early Trance releases myself when the scene was fresh and new... but for the deeper Electronic music ...think Air, Goldfrapp, early Jarre and all the good 80's synth pop bands....I just feel you need the real thing.

For a lot of people software works great because they don't need the clutter. It's like this, I went through a lot of compressor plugins...all of them even buying a Uad-1 card and buying most of their plugins. But for me it did not have the meat...plenty of meat tasting gravy but no substance. I played with a Thermionic Compressor for a few weeks and that was it, out went the plugins in came the Ubk Fatso compressor.

I had a Virus Ti, loved the sounds but just sooo many presets, for digital it rocks, but I needed that sound that only certain hardware can give you. Sure I'm in a minority as far as all producers/composers put together....but the difference is so great for me I just can't stand to play the emulations. The aliasing, weak oscilators and every soft synth having that same glassy sheen to it just didn't rock my boat.

I'm half way through a track and I have just used a Sequential Pro 1 as my synth source. Jamming along using Silent Way voice controller to cv/gate it up... I get all the benefits of a sample accurate in tune vsti but with real sounds, real balls. I'll happily upload a sample of a 1osc bass that I truly do not believe a vsti could replicate.

The Aturia stuff is a joke and a con in my eyes, if you can't hear the HUGE difference between it and the real thing then I suppose it makes perfect sense to use them. They are great synths for what they are, but a Mini Moog takes out tooth fillings with 1 osc, the Auturia sounds like a wet ettuce leaf.

Just my personal view of course, but I have a feeling this is why analog synth prices are so stupidly high....people realize that actually the virtual stuff is harder to mix and really lacks the mojo of the originals, so they buy them back up again causing the price to rise.

For the record I use some software like Kontakt 3.5 sampler and Nebula but that's about it.
Old 28th March 2010
  #118
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
A real artist would immediately delete all presets. What happened to rigor and integrity? Eric J has some great points. The OP, well, good luck man.
A real artist would immediately design and make their own synthesizer. Everybody uses those Rolands, Korgs and Moogs. Oh, where's the integrity?
heh
Old 28th March 2010
  #119
Lives for gear
 

Just a very quick and non eq'd snapshot of the Pro 1 doing a simple bass.

The first bass part is 2 oscilators with a bit of hard sync. The second bass part is just a simple open filter 1 osc sawtooth, no programming needed it's as simple as it gets. It's not eq'd so is as is.

The bass line is very simple C octaves so you should be able to replicate it in any vsti synth. Have a go, upload the results.
Attached Files

Pro 1 Bass test.mp3 (1.45 MB, 169 views)

Old 28th March 2010
  #120
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flat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
Just a very quick and non eq'd snapshot of the Pro 1 doing a simple bass.
Fantastic sound!thumbsup

Pro-One is a very ballsy bass machine. (Possibly the best imho).
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