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Going soft??????? Yep, finally seen the light. yippeeeeee! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 27th March 2010
  #61
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds View Post
..
how can you get better results with software when hardware is 25% better?
That is the underlying question and why Kola has not convinced the slutz. I can't imagine sacrificing really fundamental sound quality for convenience.

Yes, I use soft synths. But if soft synths are used to carry the main tune, in an old song, or a quick idea, I'll simply rearrange it afterwards. I do that systematically. Because I just enjoy listening to hardware (analogue) so much more.
Old 27th March 2010
  #62
Mr Arkadin
Guest
I think the problem with the OP's original statement is that it is openly trolling.

Me?
I use hardware synths and effects.
I use DSP software synths and effects (Scope).
I use native plugins (mostly GForce and BFD2).

The original proclamation was: "I have seen the light" which, like the religion that statement is based on, implies one and only one truth. The language was purposefully inflammatory. That's the definition of a troll.
If it had been worded differently I think the OP would have been fine: many use soft synths etc. as well as hardware.

Most don't proclaim their way to be the only truthful way.
Old 27th March 2010
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robobaby View Post
Using the old distortion. Nice to hear they beefed up the distortion curves since the old ones all sound terrible.

The stock oscillators are still weak as hell though. I still remember comparing them unfiltered to softsynths like Zeta+, ImpOSCar, Albino etc. Have you ever tried comparing ImpOSCar's square to a Virus square? I always find myself gravitating away from the analogue modelled waveforms on the Virus anyway. Its way more interesting when you mix wavetables for really alien sounds that you can't do as well with Zeta+ or Albino. But for bread and butter analogue modelling theres a tonne of synths I'd rather use than a Virus and alot of them are cheap and come in VST format.
I generally don't use the TI much for bread and butter analog sounds either, although I do think it's killer compared to Roland and Korg's current interpretation of "analog". I've got some surprisingly impressive Reaktor ensembles and an old Poly-61 for that. For mono analog I've got the Neptune 2 and a Filterbank 2.

Since Access implemented OS 3 + 4... the Virus is really shaping up to be the king of Swiss Army synths.
Old 27th March 2010
  #64
Gear Addict
 

I'd give up on music making if it took me 6 hours to figure out a DAW controllable filter sweep for my outboard.
Old 27th March 2010
  #65
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

jesus ****ing christ... do we always need a thread whenever someone discovers what works for them?

you like penut butter and jelly? thats ****ing great. i like ham. we don't have to each post threads saying why ham is so ****ing kickass and how you can make a ham sandwich as good as any penut butter and jelly sandwich.

hardware.. software... digital... analog.... it doesn't ****ing matter. they are tools. use the ones you like
Old 27th March 2010
  #66
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Easy tiger...
Old 27th March 2010
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
DGBX's Avatar
 

all you guys shouldn't take it so personally.

if working in the computer works for this dude, that's totally cool. there are a lot of awesome artists who are completely itb - four tet comes to mind. sometimes I think I should go the same route...pare things back to my laptop. except I'd probably have a midi interface and sequence a few compact analog synths.

but I don't think OP was trolling at all. more power to him.
Old 27th March 2010
  #68
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hogberto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGBX View Post
all you guys shouldn't take it so personally.…
and here we go again...
Old 27th March 2010
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu View Post
(aside from my Gamboy with Nanoloop).
OFF TOPIC but i dont care!

how do you like nanoloop? im thinking of switching to it, i got lsdj and it's a bit weird as far as learning curve.
Old 27th March 2010
  #70
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alexp's Avatar
Ahhh.... I love the smell of trolling in the morning. Apart from a few key posts in here, everyone else is way out of line. The OP made a post (which yes we have heard way way too many times here), and then the first page comes down to how much trance music sucks? Really? Its this sort of 14 year old mentality that is starting to make GS look like a daycare program.


Do I agree with the OP? No. Am I going to trash his music because I cant get a point of my own across in my own words? No. Its good hes found what works for him, stop trying to convert everyone to one thing or the other.


Hw vs VST tends to come up once every... oh I dunno 2 weeks or so on GS. And its always the same people saying the same dumb **** over and over again. I was one of those people. But then I turned 15.

Grow up.


OP -Be advised that a positive negative post of HW, stirs the pot, and happens all the time around here. What was the intention of the post other than to provide a kicking off point for arguments?


alexP
Old 27th March 2010
  #71
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robobaby View Post
Using the old distortion. Nice to hear they beefed up the distortion curves since the old ones all sound terrible.

The stock oscillators are still weak as hell though. I still remember comparing them unfiltered to softsynths like Zeta+, ImpOSCar, Albino etc. Have you ever tried comparing ImpOSCar's square to a Virus square? I always find myself gravitating away from the analogue modelled waveforms on the Virus anyway. Its way more interesting when you mix wavetables for really alien sounds that you can't do as well with Zeta+ or Albino. But for bread and butter analogue modelling theres a tonne of synths I'd rather use than a Virus and alot of them are cheap and come in VST format.
Ive compared those and you can get a much better one from the Virus but it's subjective, the issue with the TI is the gain structure. the "ocs volume" knob is a real freaker, if you pull it down to -40 percent you can actually get a pure signal with even a sub osc at full volume and not loose the other osc in saturation/squash (this is with saturation OFF even) once you climb that osc volume knob up from 50 or 40 you start to hear it crunch and overdrive (BTW I have the master at 100% and the Patch Volume at 100%), I betcha the majority uses it with the knob at 0 and thats already way to cranked, unless your going for that. if you are at 0 or more then the Master knob affects the sound even more. I bring OSC Volume up just to A/B the character of it and see where I like it...but you can get some amazingly powerful bread and butter sounds with better response. add recursive to the equation and forget it...organic bubbly liquid sound if properly set up. Wish it had an analog filter but whatever it is what it is.


and yeah the new OS kicked this synth into overdrive.. pretty damn amazing.
Old 27th March 2010
  #72
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Jetty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexp View Post
Ahhh.... I love the smell of trolling in the morning. Apart from a few key posts in here, everyone else is way out of line. The OP made a post (which yes we have heard way way too many times here), and then the first page comes down to how much trance music sucks? Really? Its this sort of 14 year old mentality that is starting to make GS look like a daycare program.


Do I agree with the OP? No. Am I going to trash his music because I cant get a point of my own across in my own words? No. Its good hes found what works for him, stop trying to convert everyone to one thing or the other.


Hw vs VST tends to come up once every... oh I dunno 2 weeks or so on GS. And its always the same people saying the same dumb **** over and over again. I was one of those people. But then I turned 15.

Grow up.


OP -Be advised that a positive negative post of HW, stirs the pot, and happens all the time around here. What was the intention of the post other than to provide a kicking off point for arguments?


alexP
There's a fine line between sarcasm and trolling, yes?
Old 27th March 2010
  #73
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alexp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetty View Post
There's a fine line between sarcasm and trolling, yes?

You know as well as anyone how sarcasm doesnt translate well over the internet.


alexP
Old 27th March 2010
  #74
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kola View Post
Try trialing hardware. Buy the time you’d done the learning curve it would be time to take it back.
You don't go much through a "learning curve" each time you sit in a new car.


You either: I) know how to program a synth or; II) not.
Old 27th March 2010
  #75
the sad truth is that most people can't tell the difference between hardware and software

so why do we spend the extra money?

well i've only just starting working with hardware, but whenever i record synth parts on songs that i had initially done with software, everything becomes more alive. i can just move knobs around and record as many parts as i want without having to worry about running out of resources. of course you could always use automation, bounce in place, and everything else, but it's just not the same to me. i guess i just feel more inspired with hardware, and of course it also sounds better.

and as long a you set up your hardware synths in a sexy way, chicks will think it's sexy thumbsup
Old 27th March 2010
  #76
Gear Addict
 

Hey guys.

Alot of posts I have come back too. Cant answer them all.

A few key points.

1 - If I was trolling why would I have listed all my kit on EBay this dinner time?? Sort of backs up that im serious.
2 - I even accused people especially Jetty of trolling as early as my first page.
3 - This thread does show GS users in a bad light.
4 - My original post was for some intelligent debate. Something I welcomed and encouraged whilst I asked the original idiots to bugger off on the first page. I like to hear others opinions. Sort of gives me a fresh pair of eyes. I may have missed something. Unlike many on here I dont see my way as right and myself as perfect.
5 - Some people will hate Trance. I strongly dislike Hip Hop. Yet trance isnt better or worse. Its just what I like.
6 - Sorry I wasnt trying to stir an argument and I didnt know this issue came up often. Reason I posted this on hardware forum is because I knew it would clash with hardware lovers beliefs instead of just PC music lovers saying "yeah, cool" As said I wanted a fresh set of devils advocate eyes if you will. Apart from the stupid trolls I got some great points so I got what I wanted.

Great points by Alex P and the guy who rightfully stated to only have a few select plugs as opposed to a million. I totally wholeheartedly agree.
Old 27th March 2010
  #77
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PeteJames's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock View Post
Off-topic:

Jesus tap-dancing Christ! This is where things have gone wrong.
I know, I've just been reading it

Armin's Pearls of Wisdom:

"I make what they call underground dance music"

"DJs won’t play your record if it doesn’t sound enough like the other records"

" A little while ago you had Deadmau5, with his sound, then you had people copying Deadmau5. We were listening to Deadmau5 as well, so our sound was a little influenced by that."

"I try to follow the trends as well"

"all my biggest tracks were written in under two hours”

"I don’t even hear the difference between a 192kbps and a 320kbps MP3"

"I know it’s really boring, but read some articles or buy a book about synthesis."

"You’ve got to try and make a little difference, even if 90 percent of it is copies of other people’s ideas.”

So In Summary We Have Learned:

Copy everyone else, mostly
Try to sound like everybody else especially if they are popular
Following trends is crucial
Don't put much time into your tracks
Listen to tracks on expensive monitors with low bit rates
Try to learn synthesis even though learning synthesis sucks
Old 27th March 2010
  #78
Mr Arkadin
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kola View Post
1 - If I was trolling why would I have listed all my kit on EBay this dinner time?? Sort of backs up that im serious.
Selling your kit doesn't absolve you of trolling.

Alt version: "I've realised that I don't need hardware for my music, so I'm selling my hardware. Here are my reasons"

Your version: "I have found God. He exists. It's name is software so all hardware users must be wrong."

That's trolling.
Old 27th March 2010
  #79
Gear Addict
 

Thats not what I said.

Ive justified myself enough and have better things to do than go around in circles on here.

Thanks to all that helped out. Ill be less keen to post on GS after this.

Thanks to those who agreed or disagreed but had the brain power to at least be constructive.

The rest of you - What a set of berks!!
Old 27th March 2010
  #80
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

ohhhh youll be back...

My fireface 400 broke last week, since then, i've been using only my softsynth. I got to agree, I'm still making good music (started a songs last week) but still, I can'T wait to put some song parts into my eventide, some parts into my mf-101, and adding a layers of andromeda soundscape madness.
Old 27th March 2010
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
OFF TOPIC but i dont care!

how do you like nanoloop? im thinking of switching to it, i got lsdj and it's a bit weird as far as learning curve.
I've never used LSDJ so it would be hard for me to compare.

It's not the easiest thing to get used to but once you get the hang of it it's quite fun. Of course, I'm using an older version (2.0) which gives you eight parts per sequence. The newer version supposedly gives you some new synth features and an easier interface but your parts are limited to four per sequence.

It sounds raw as hell and I think it's so damn cool I can fit it into my briefcase with some nice earbuds and have a tiny little lo-fi groovebox. I'm using a Gameboy Micro so it's extremely portable.
Old 27th March 2010
  #82
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Mr. Varaldo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kola View Post

1 - If I was trolling why would I have listed all my kit on EBay this dinner time?? Sort of backs up that im serious.
.

Quote:
Ti, 60, JP, MOTU 24, Kenton Pro 2000

I've done a search on eBay but cannot find these items as recently posted

Not to doubt that you have posted them, but can you provide eBay links to "all your kit on EBay"?

That would back up that you were serious... not just saying that you did it... people want proof usually. Unless you're talking about other instruments??
Old 27th March 2010
  #83
Gear Addict
 
JEBEQ's Avatar
 

I just can't find any creativity in making my own sounds with VST's they are just non inspiring. Jupiter 8V for example, unless you have a magnifing glass to see the parameters you just can't see what your doing. Also I just get tired of fondling my mouse for hours on end and staring at my screen till I turn blue. I have friends that work out of the box and all I can say is Presets, Presets, Presets and no originality

I sold all my Hardware at one point because all my music friends were jealous at what i had and they convinced me to just work out of the box. What a HUGE mistake that was. it lasted a couple months and then I was just jonesing for all my hardware.

I have since then recovered all my hardware and will never dream of selling it again.

On a last note I would like hear a VST come remotely close to sounding like my SH-5, Pro One, OBXA, Octave Cat, Jupiter 6, etc, etc, etc.
Old 27th March 2010
  #84
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEBEQ View Post
all my music friends were jealous at what i had and they convinced me to just work out of the box
Time to become less of a pushover and to find new friends
Old 27th March 2010
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu View Post
I've never used LSDJ so it would be hard for me to compare.

It's not the easiest thing to get used to but once you get the hang of it it's quite fun. Of course, I'm using an older version (2.0) which gives you eight parts per sequence. The newer version supposedly gives you some new synth features and an easier interface but your parts are limited to four per sequence.

It sounds raw as hell and I think it's so damn cool I can fit it into my briefcase with some nice earbuds and have a tiny little lo-fi groovebox. I'm using a Gameboy Micro so it's extremely portable.
I'm using the brick with lsdj. but i just found a gameboy advanced i was thinking maybe going nanoloop.

the idea behind it got me to buy it. being able to make beats on the go and then incorporate them into my reason programing and hardware and so on and so forth.

lsdj has some samples which i got working. hilarious too!

guess i should just break down and get it. damn this addiction. it eats me alive!
Old 27th March 2010
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteJames View Post
I know, I've just been reading it

Armin's Pearls of Wisdom:

"I make what they call underground dance music"

"DJs won’t play your record if it doesn’t sound enough like the other records"

" A little while ago you had Deadmau5, with his sound, then you had people copying Deadmau5. We were listening to Deadmau5 as well, so our sound was a little influenced by that."

"I try to follow the trends as well"

"all my biggest tracks were written in under two hours”

"I don’t even hear the difference between a 192kbps and a 320kbps MP3"

"I know it’s really boring, but read some articles or buy a book about synthesis."

"You’ve got to try and make a little difference, even if 90 percent of it is copies of other people’s ideas.”

So In Summary We Have Learned:

Copy everyone else, mostly
Try to sound like everybody else especially if they are popular
Following trends is crucial
Don't put much time into your tracks
Listen to tracks on expensive monitors with low bit rates
Try to learn synthesis even though learning synthesis sucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by l.sicilian
Only dead fish follow the stream...
Old 27th March 2010
  #87
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soultrane's Avatar
ok as a dedicated hardware guy, i think i'm with the op.. i'm moving back to soft...

main reason? the name of the game in music is no longer the highest fidelity...

do u realize how really special your tracks (and more important, your marketing plan) would have to be to get the average music consumer to actually get a .wav (or cd) of one of your tunes?

even if you are a pretty heavy indie artist these days, the odds anyone is ever going to hear anything new from you in other than mp3 format are slim and none.

and, not only that, tracks simply do not have value anymore.

i mean, in the olden days, it made sense for pink floyd or led zeppelin or yes or whoever to record in a castle and spend 4 days setting up drum sounds etc etc, because they were hoping to sell 5 million lp's.

nowadays, the BEST we can hope for is that a few thousand people will RIP OFF your music via mp3, or access it on youtube or whatever, and that will increase your name recognition and you'll be able to go do live shows and sell t shirts with your logo on them.

since the tracks are free and basically business cards, and since mp3's compress the sound anyway, the name of the game is SPEED and i'm sorry, having a room full of hardware and an analog desk gets in the way of speed.

and the improvement in sound is really diminishing returns in this market. we have to adapt.
Old 28th March 2010
  #88
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
ok as a dedicated hardware guy, i think i'm with the op.. i'm moving back to soft...

main reason? the name of the game in music is no longer the highest fidelity...

do u realize how really special your tracks (and more important, your marketing plan) would have to be to get the average music consumer to actually get a .wav (or cd) of one of your tunes?

even if you are a pretty heavy indie artist these days, the odds anyone is ever going to hear anything new from you in other than mp3 format are slim and none.

and, not only that, tracks simply do not have value anymore.

i mean, in the olden days, it made sense for pink floyd or led zeppelin or yes or whoever to record in a castle and spend 4 days setting up drum sounds etc etc, because they were hoping to sell 5 million lp's.

nowadays, the BEST we can hope for is that a few thousand people will RIP OFF your music via mp3, or access it on youtube or whatever, and that will increase your name recognition and you'll be able to go do live shows and sell t shirts with your logo on them.

since the tracks are free and basically business cards, and since mp3's compress the sound anyway, the name of the game is SPEED and i'm sorry, having a room full of hardware and an analog desk gets in the way of speed.

and the improvement in sound is really diminishing returns in this market. we have to adapt.
This is a great post and sums it up. Music is a business, and this is how to survive.
Old 28th March 2010
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by operaman View Post
This is a great post and sums it up. Music is a business, and this is how to survive.
and by great you mean depressing right?
Old 28th March 2010
  #90
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kola View Post
Why I choose VSTs over hardware

1 – Face it, I love instant. Instant instant instant. What I cannot stand is learning curves. Each hardware synth requires a learning curve where if your all in the box you learn the DAW what you have to learn anyhow for the hardware and that’s it. You’re done. The technology never gets in the way.

2 – Interested in a new plug in? Well trial it with a new demo version. Try trialing hardware. Buy the time you’d done the learning curve it would be time to take it back. That’s if it was even feasible to do this.

3 – No need to learn wires or MIDI or have them hanging everywhere.

4 – Space saving. No need to fill up your room with huge hard synths.

5 – Electricity saving. Instead of having to turn on and boot up a tone of outboard you just switch on your DAW, DAC and Mons.

6 – No need for an expensive mixer or expensive multi in out soundcard as its already in the box.

7 – Instant recall of all your presets and settings.

8 – Facility to be able to back up the above instant recalls and sets to a disk.

9 – Price. In 1990 as £250,000 is now available on a Mac for well under 5 grand. (and then some)



Ok, so what does hardware do better?

1 – Cant beat the hands on feel of a dedicated synth with dedicated knobs. How Id wish they would make dedicated controllers for soft synths.

2 – Hardware looks way cooler towards other geeks. Face it, no girls are exactly going to swoon over a guy with a large keyboard collection, infact quite the opposite. You may as well mention your into stamp collecting.
Guess im a geek as I think hardware looks superb. My wife and her friends see it all as irritating clutter.

3 – ermm – ok scraping here, sentimental reasons. I grew up in the early 90’s and hardware was a big thing back then. Suppose you’re a product of you environment. This is hardly a plus but I cant think of anything else.

4 – Hardware sounds better. Hmmm, not the VA stuff or anything digital anymore. Certainly 10 years ago but now the gap is 1% at best. I will say Analogues still should better, but in my circles music has pushed forward in directions now different to analogue probably because of this. Early 90’s you couldn’t move for the 101 and Juno 106. These days I struggle to find how to older classic stuff these days (I make trance predominantly.)
Give me Predator and a Vangaurd and Ill give you trance. Give me a 60/106 and a 101 that costs twice as much and ill give you something very limited.

To compare with an Andy A6 and a Voyager is more a fair comparison. In this respect I totally agree the hardware sounds better but then again at £5000 for just two instruments it should blow my macbook pro out of the park. It doesn’t. Its 25% better at absolute best. For the 5 grand I have a macbook pro, Focal Twins, Apogee DAC, Room Treatment, Logic Pro, Piano action controller, etc etc. For 25%?



Summery:-

As much as the above is wrote from a Software lovers point of view I am actually a hardcore synth addict for the days of acid and techno.

However the final final final straw came yesterday when I tried to get my JPs filter to be controlled from live. I put 6 hours into this. I gave up. Downloaded a demo of Vangaurd (an low budget soft synth) and within 5 minutes I had it sorted without any manual or socks and shoes off.

As such I have to acknowledge my sentimentality is getting isn the way of my productions. I sooooooooooooo don’t want this to be true.


As such if anyone wants to buy my Ti, 60, JP, MOTU 24, Kenton Pro 2000 give me a shout. I know where im putting my money.

Kola, I too have faced difficulties with hardware, as we all have. Regarding your situation with Live, well sorry but Live is not the best software to use to control hardware, especially hardware requiring sysex.

It took me days to figure out how to get Cubase to control every single paramater of the Super Jupiter and Juno, but now that it is up and running, I have full total recall of everything on my hardware. Load up a project, and everything loads up its correct patch. I use 2 other hardware synths and I forget how many VST synths, everything is total recall, even the external FX.

Midi can be a pain in the asre too. I am having dramas with timing jitter on my current midi interface. There are alternative midi infterfaces and plenty of them.

Hardware uses hardly any electricity. 15 watts, maybe 30 watts each.

The cost of ownership and space, that varies between synths, and the resources of different people. Your situation is your situation and may not be limiting factors for other poeple. Overall I consider my rig to be small and cheap.

If you want to impress a girl with your musical instrument collection, grab a electric guitar and put it in the corner. Just make sure you can play it when she wants to hear something
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