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Going soft??????? Yep, finally seen the light. yippeeeeee! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 21st May 2012
  #421
Deleted User
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>I know where im putting my money.

in unresellable software ?

only joking !

Its all good , just watch out though as jesus can very quickly become the devil and vice versa.
Old 21st May 2012
  #422
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Looneytune's Avatar
 

Being a new guy I just can't believe how many of these threads I see.

I mean are we not tired of arguing this point already?

Fact is each has its own power and limitations.
I have not read all the replies but to the OP this is great that you have decided to go this route and I wish you luck in your journey.

I sometimes feel like you and think WTF why do i bother with all this gear seriously. By the time i get everything on and sync all the gear and this and that I could have finished half a track just using Logic 9. But for years I did this, just created music all ITB no gear at all except a Virus TI. Now I have gone totally the other way.....why well I think the over all product at the end for me always sounds better when I use some gear. Sure it is a bitch but a choice I make. I am not just talking synths though, I am talking hardware compression and so on.

I think the true power begins though when you use both. This is where its at for me. Use both, yep. I think many here can agree the power of using both.
Old 21st May 2012
  #423
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jbuonacc's Avatar
yeah, it gets old sometimes, but then again it's interesting to see people's perspectives on it.

myself, i started out with strictly hardware about 15 years ago. Roland analogs, vintage drum machines, a ton of guitar fx, all sequenced from an MMT-8. even as it become more popular, i hated the idea of using software for anything besides sequencing (i switched to an Atari with Cubase shortly after i began). i thought it was ridiculous, and could never imagine that i'd use software to generate sounds and rhythms. when i bought the Nord G2 it was my first experience with any sort of software synthesizer, and i had to buy a cheap Win98 laptop to run the Editor for it. five or six years ago i bought an MPC-1000 to 'replace' the MPC-2000XL that i had sold a year or two before, still hesitant to do anything with software. i had it for two days before i said "f'ck it", returned it and bought a new laptop and Ableton Live 5. i immediately realized how powerful computer-based sequencing, fx, and recording could be.

it was still a couple years before i really started getting into VST synths, as most of what i tried didn't really do it for me. i had Reaktor by then, but still did most everything with the G2 and eventually bought a Machinedrum-UW mkII. while it's a hell of a lot of fun, i soon felt very restricted by the MD and its limitations. unfortunately, i am unable to really replicate what the G2 does for me in software, and the keyboard version is the best MIDI controller that you can buy. i sold the MD, though ended up regretting it and bought another. i'm about to sell this one now as well, i honestly enjoy working with Ableton (and Maschine, though it's not really necessary) for drums more than any hardware drum machine. i just don't need that stuff anymore, i see almost no advantages over software. honestly, the dis-advantages of hardware restrictions are more apparent to me all the time.

these days i'm actually excited to use software, a total 180 from my old standpoint on the subject. i totally dig the almost endless possibilities that it presents. i don't think i'll ever go back to hardware, i just don't see any need for it. i don't feel any different sitting down to the G2 controlling a softsynth than i did when i sat down with my old Juno or whatever. the combination of a good controller and software is no less of an 'instrument' to me. i couldn't imagine f'ing with a Juno these days.

for certain things, i can't replace the Nord G2, but it just gets recorded as audio and dumped into Ableton. i do have an Elektron OctaTrack as well (mainly for the occasional live set), so with these two i can't say that i'm 100% ITB, but that's just a blank slate that gets filled with whatever i'm doing on the PC. i sure as hell don't feel like i need any hardware besides those two though, which is a great feeling after so many years of constant gear lust and spending. i also don't feel the need to buy up every softsynth that's released, i'm totally content with a relatively small stable of capable synths, fx, and Ableton.

absolutely loving it.
Old 21st May 2012
  #424
Gear Addict
 
electrobiscuit's Avatar
O.P., I teach English as a foreign language. Would you like to take some lessons on Skype? I charge $10 per hour.
Old 21st May 2012
  #425
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metrosonus's Avatar
 

my two cents have always been

a. in blind tests, no on can tell the difference, especially after processing, mix downs and not turning on the oscilloscope.

b. software takes a bit more polish because the built ins aren't as high quality as the ones in hardware. Effects, compressors etc. So I look for a good sound source in VSTs then back it up with mastering plugs.

c. software IS just faster under certain conditions: lack of time, space etc.
Old 21st May 2012
  #426
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
I see not many advantages of hardware these days.
In fact, some softsynths like the PolyKB in my collection convince me more than my Virus TI.
Old 22nd May 2012
  #427
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Looneytune's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
yeah, it gets old sometimes, but then again it's interesting to see people's perspectives on it.

myself, i started out with strictly hardware about 15 years ago. Roland analogs, vintage drum machines, a ton of guitar fx, all sequenced from an MMT-8. even as it become more popular, i hated the idea of using software for anything besides sequencing (i switched to an Atari with Cubase shortly after i began). i thought it was ridiculous, and could never imagine that i'd use software to generate sounds and rhythms. when i bought the Nord G2 it was my first experience with any sort of software synthesizer, and i had to buy a cheap Win98 laptop to run the Editor for it. five or six years ago i bought an MPC-1000 to 'replace' the MPC-2000XL that i had sold a year or two before, still hesitant to do anything with software. i had it for two days before i said "f'ck it", returned it and bought a new laptop and Ableton Live 5. i immediately realized how powerful computer-based sequencing, fx, and recording could be.

it was still a couple years before i really started getting into VST synths, as most of what i tried didn't really do it for me. i had Reaktor by then, but still did most everything with the G2 and eventually bought a Machinedrum-UW mkII. while it's a hell of a lot of fun, i soon felt very restricted by the MD and its limitations. unfortunately, i am unable to really replicate what the G2 does for me in software, and the keyboard version is the best MIDI controller that you can buy. i sold the MD, though ended up regretting it and bought another. i'm about to sell this one now as well, i honestly enjoy working with Ableton (and Maschine, though it's not really necessary) for drums more than any hardware drum machine. i just don't need that stuff anymore, i see almost no advantages over software. honestly, the dis-advantages of hardware restrictions are more apparent to me all the time.

these days i'm actually excited to use software, a total 180 from my old standpoint on the subject. i totally dig the almost endless possibilities that it presents. i don't think i'll ever go back to hardware, i just don't see any need for it. i don't feel any different sitting down to the G2 controlling a softsynth than i did when i sat down with my old Juno or whatever. the combination of a good controller and software is no less of an 'instrument' to me. i couldn't imagine f'ing with a Juno these days.

for certain things, i can't replace the Nord G2, but it just gets recorded as audio and dumped into Ableton. i do have an Elektron OctaTrack as well (mainly for the occasional live set), so with these two i can't say that i'm 100% ITB, but that's just a blank slate that gets filled with whatever i'm doing on the PC. i sure as hell don't feel like i need any hardware besides those two though, which is a great feeling after so many years of constant gear lust and spending. i also don't feel the need to buy up every softsynth that's released, i'm totally content with a relatively small stable of capable synths, fx, and Ableton.

absolutely loving it.
Thanks for sharing and sorry I am going to call you JB from now on. Your name confuses me lol!
It is funny most start hardware then go soft it seems. I happen to be from the otherside, software first now hardware. This happened after I got a taste of some hardware and I was also quite new to the game and I fell into the thinking that a new bit of kit will help me create a banger. I was always disappointed afterwards to know it actually did not help me much at all towards producing a better track and that everything I needed to create a great track was always right in front of me.
Fact is I could have just stayed with a copy of Logic 9, and IMac and my Virus which was actually being used as my audio interface could you believe it.
Then I don't know what happened but I spent $100k plus on gear..........I aint showing off at all this is just the truth.

A few weeks later I am not sure what I like more to be honest.

I love how my SSL lights up and all and my other gear keeps me warm in the winter months but have I created better tracks for it no! Hell I am still learning how to use my damn console I got a month ago.
Today I also read a great article about Analog vs Digital summing and the article ends beautifully........here is what he says.

With properly engineered systems running carefully designed software and being operated sensibly, there shouldn't be any problems at all with digital summing. Sure, digital mixing lacks the rich sounding harmonic distortion and benign transient clipping that you can achieved by slightly overriding an analog mixer, but if you want to deliberately distort the material in some musical way there are plenty of ways to do that in a more controlled, predictable and less expensive fashion.

Nicely said don't you think.

But hey I still wanted an analog console. LOL...........
I think the whole thing becomes bullshi% after a while and not your time is best spend making music rather then obsessing which sounds better. I have to agree I am obsessed with analog gear. Wish I wasn't and wish I just had a laptop and a copy of a just a DAW Sometimes.

Good on you man for being happy, i would rather be happy with just a laptop and making music then a room full of gear and not making music!
Peace!
Old 22nd May 2012
  #428
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
haha, JB will work, those are my initials anyway.

i totally understand the love for hardware as well. it was like i was on a continuous high for 10 years learning about everything, all the different makes of gear, how it interacted. searching out and buying a new machine, it was great. believe me, if i had the money to blow i'd have all sorts of stuff, including all the Roland classics and much more. not sure if i'd get much done with them (besides a bunch of half-finished ideas), but they'd be a blast to play around with, and look great all set up.

in the end though, it's more me and my distractions than anything, but i don't have a lot to show for all those years. i never felt like i could really complete anything, like nothing was ever finished. i'm looking forward to finally digging in and making some real progress after all this time. even the small amount of stuff i have left is distracting. i feel that any time spent with the Machinedrum is time wasted that i could be setting up Drum Racks in Ableton and recording loops. i just end up erasing half the stuff that i do on the MD. i almost can't wait to sell my mixer, i don't see any reason to have it around and i waste time just letting patterns run and riding the faders just for fun. it's great, but just doesn't work for me. i don't think it makes my output any better in the end either.

i'm almost surprised to hear that you're (seemingly) now a bit unsure about which way you'd like to go. i'm sure it'll all work out in the end and that you'll be able to work on your album once the dust settles. getting all that stuff in a short amount of time must be a bit overwhelming, especially something as advanced as the Matrix. hope all is going well with your tutor, looking forward to hearing some tunes in the future.

and yes, that quote on analog/digital summing is great. seems dead-on to me.
Old 22nd May 2012
  #429
Lives for gear
 

I also shifted from all hardware to mostly software now (maschine + plugs mostly) and while I think that the sonic possibilities are much better in software (vallhalla, fabfilter and reaktor really did it for me), I still can't get the same creative results that I could get with hardware setups. The sound is better ITB for sure, but all I make ITB ends up sounding generic from a composition perspective. I have an octatrack on the way and I plan to play VSTs into it. Let's see how that works out.
Old 22nd May 2012
  #430
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Looneytune's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemoon View Post
I also shifted from all hardware to mostly software now (maschine + plugs mostly) and while I think that the sonic possibilities are much better in software (vallhalla, fabfilter and reaktor really did it for me), I still can't get the same creative results that I could get with hardware setups. The sound is better ITB for sure, but all I make ITB ends up sounding generic from a composition perspective. I have an octatrack on the way and I plan to play VSTs into it. Let's see how that works out.
@Bluemoon please talk more about ITB sound is better for sure. I am interested is all.

@JB get back to ya soon with a reply
Old 22nd May 2012
  #431
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tyler477's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneytune View Post
Then I don't know what happened but I spent $100k plus on gear..........I aint showing off at all this is just the truth.

A few weeks later I am not sure what I like more to be honest.
ok, you spend 100k on gear and can't learn it in WEEKS what if you had spent that much on software you really think you could figure that out in weeks?

Put it in storage, all of it. take out one bit at a time and learn it thoroughly ( yes rtfm) then take out the next piece. This is what everyone else does. Then in a year or 2 or even 3 years decide which you prefer and create your arsenal and begin recording.
Old 22nd May 2012
  #432
Lives for gear
 
Looneytune's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
haha, JB will work, those are my initials anyway.

i totally understand the love for hardware as well. it was like i was on a continuous high for 10 years learning about everything, all the different makes of gear, how it interacted. searching out and buying a new machine, it was great. believe me, if i had the money to blow i'd have all sorts of stuff, including all the Roland classics and much more. not sure if i'd get much done with them (besides a bunch of half-finished ideas), but they'd be a blast to play around with, and look great all set up.

in the end though, it's more me and my distractions than anything, but i don't have a lot to show for all those years. i never felt like i could really complete anything, like nothing was ever finished. i'm looking forward to finally digging in and making some real progress after all this time. even the small amount of stuff i have left is distracting. i feel that any time spent with the Machinedrum is time wasted that i could be setting up Drum Racks in Ableton and recording loops. i just end up erasing half the stuff that i do on the MD. i almost can't wait to sell my mixer, i don't see any reason to have it around and i waste time just letting patterns run and riding the faders just for fun. it's great, but just doesn't work for me. i don't think it makes my output any better in the end either.

i'm almost surprised to hear that you're (seemingly) now a bit unsure about which way you'd like to go. i'm sure it'll all work out in the end and that you'll be able to work on your album once the dust settles. getting all that stuff in a short amount of time must be a bit overwhelming, especially something as advanced as the Matrix. hope all is going well with your tutor, looking forward to hearing some tunes in the future.

and yes, that quote on analog/digital summing is great. seems dead-on to me.
@JB Here is the thing man, had I not gone hardware I would have to LIVE with the regret for the rest of my life, know what I mean?
Prior to going hardware I always had an excuse you know, ahh if only I had this or that. Now I have no excuses at all, it is up to me now to make it happen. Don't get me wrong it has always been up to me, but that need for gear was to strong. Now I have done it, well not quite as I want it but I am on my way to the set up I have always dreamed of.
Deep inside whilst i may sound unsure, I actually am really happy.. more then anything it is just overwhelming and I need to understand this stuff takes time. Man I am finally starting to make small advances with the SSL. I think sometimes i may underestimate my own ability ya know. Sure I am on the 4th time around of reading the manual.....lol

Man tell me which one of us has not pissed years away dude? Man when i first got Logic I spent the first 2 years messing with prefab loops thinking I was a banger rock star in my bedroom. Ha ha ha ha ha. It did teach me allot though.
Truth is though we need to be grateful we all have these tools to work with. Software vs hardware that thing is a dead subject for me.
I know I can't tell which of my fav tracks was produced with what, I thought i knew the difference but nah man it's all the same.
I could not imagine producing a track without Logic 9 hence the SSL Matrix route. Yes i found a tutor we kick it off soon, he is out of NYC. Looking forward to getting down to business with this guy. He came through the thread of GS, I got plenty of messages man from peeps offering services you know.
Good luck with your journey bra and I wish ya much success. Make some kick ass techno tracks now will ya.
For me it will be good 6 months or so before i start making tracks again, I am on a mission to learn all about outboard and using a console.
Old 22nd May 2012
  #433
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Looneytune's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler477 View Post
ok, you spend 100k on gear and can't learn it in WEEKS what if you had spent that much on software you really think you could figure that out in weeks?

Put it in storage, all of it. take out one bit at a time and learn it thoroughly ( yes rtfm) then take out the next piece. This is what everyone else does. Then in a year or 2 or even 3 years decide which you prefer and create your arsenal and begin recording.
Old 22nd May 2012
  #434
Deleted User
Guest
The sound is better ITB for sure,

not convinced.

Could we have evidence of this ? not Tony blair kind of evidence or george bush style evidence but like real evidence that Itb mixes are ' better ' ?
Old 22nd May 2012
  #435
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natefrogg's Avatar
 

ah this thread again, man i am not going to dig up my replies. i think i owe someone replies to my replies that they replied to

anyways.......one cool thing about a lot of good hardware, is that it tends to last quite awhile, it might even out last several computer and software upgrade iterations so much to the point of the hardware actually being a better value with more bang for your buck
Old 23rd May 2012
  #436
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teamsterjim's Avatar
Hey when you don't need to do gigs live, go ITB.
Just don't expect Native to do anything live well except hosting sample playback instruments.
The synths, well those Dogs Don't Hunt.
But hey, it's nice having a collection of every synth ever made for 300 bucks, nice pictures, actually sound OK over a 2 octave range, that's why they make and sell so many 21 note plastic MIDI Monsters.
Old 23rd May 2012
  #437
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by natefrogg View Post
ah this thread again, man i am not going to dig up my replies. i think i owe someone replies to my replies that they replied to

anyways.......one cool thing about a lot of good hardware, is that it tends to last quite awhile, it might even out last several computer and software upgrade iterations so much to the point of the hardware actually being a better value with more bang for your buck
I agree. In fact I think the way in which we interact with our computers is changing pretty rapidly and who knows what software is compatible with what... You buy a hardware synth, you learn it, and that won't ever go away (unless it breaks down) and you can always use it in just about any future of computing you could imagine... Unless the machines revolt but even then it would probably only be your computer that is trying to kill you... Not your little phatty stage II.
Old 23rd May 2012
  #438
Lives for gear
 

I'm mostly referring to sound shaping possibilities and the end results I'm personally getting. Hardware still needs to be processed to get to the same level imo. I'm referring to using things like the machinedrum or a jomox drum machine for example. They sound good on their own but they still need to be processed to sound as good as maschine loaded with a nice kit of good samples. ITB I can have an instance of valhalla room on each hit for example and really shape each sound individually (+EQ, comp, stereo spread). So between an all hardware setup vs a all software setup I think software takes the advantage.

To achieve similar results OTB you need a serious studio, a nice mixer to process individual sounds, some nice DSP boxes + outboard, etc. Please note that I'm not comparing a full fledged hardware studio to ITB, I'm comparing a musician-grade kind of studio (couple of synths + couple of drum machines + couple of DSP boxes) to an ITB solution running Logic + komplete for example.

Analog synth sounds are the exception here but starting with nice quality samples you can get good results too. It's like you can also make "music" with ITB solutions, maybe you won't replicate this exact sync sound, or get this osc cross mod detail with softsynths but you can also find good sounds to work with and make music.

Now the issue I'm facing is on the creative side. I'm not able to get the same kind of happy accidents I got with hardware for example. But that may be because this is a new approach for me. I also found that in my previous (potentially biased) ventures into software land, I'd always compare a 5 min effort with softsynths to a 5 hour effort done with hardware boxes. I'm starting to realize that if you invest the same amount of time with software the results start to show up. it just takes the same amount of time of RTFM and finding the sweet spots.
Old 23rd May 2012
  #439
Gear Maniac
 
8BitCulprit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boddhisattva007 View Post
You buy a hardware synth, you learn it, and that won't ever go away (unless it breaks down)
Yeah, no you are right, this doesn't apply to anything non-hardware based...every time I open Reaktor it's totally different, sometimes it's just a photo of a cat.
Old 23rd May 2012
  #440
Old 23rd May 2012
  #441
Lives for gear
 

So..... go soft or go home?
Old 23rd May 2012
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
So..... go soft or go home?
don't take me wrong, I have 9U of pure eurorack lust here by my side and a couple of analog monos in storage (of the good kind). Nothing can replace them for sure, but nothing can replace unlimited instances of nice plug ins either.

I think negating the possibilities offered by software at this point is unproductive if you're trying to achieve similar results (sonically) to the mainstream folks using software.
Old 23rd May 2012
  #443
Gear Maniac
 
8BitCulprit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
With a pancake?
That's just crazy talk.
Old 23rd May 2012
  #444
Old 23rd May 2012
  #445
Lives for gear
 

The pancake always wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
so who won?
Old 23rd May 2012
  #446
damned pancakes...my money was on software
Old 29th May 2012
  #447
Consider that the failure to obtain the "sound" you want or to blow away the market with you brilliance may not be because you just don't have the right combination of gear but rather that you have not fully learned how to use the gear you have.

LEARN YOUR INSTRUMENTS! And while your at it, learn a little about music too. You can do all the cut and paste you want but the more you understand the fundamentals of music, synthesis, and recording, the better your music will be.

It just ain't the synths that don't sound good. Its us flailing away without focusing on learning what we are doing. This does not hold for everyone of course. But those of you who spend more time hanging out than working on your sounds and tracks know who you are.
Old 29th May 2012
  #448
Lives for gear
 
Looneytune's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
Consider that the failure to obtain the "sound" you want or to blow away the market with you brilliance may not be because you just don't have the right combination of gear but rather that you have not fully learned how to use the gear you have.

LEARN YOUR INSTRUMENTS! And while your at it, learn a little about music too. You can do all the cut and paste you want but the more you understand the fundamentals of music, synthesis, and recording, the better your music will be.

It just ain't the synths that don't sound good. Its us flailing away without focusing on learning what we are doing. This does not hold for everyone of course. But those of you who spend more time hanging out than working on your sounds and tracks know who you are.
I would agree with much of this.
I think it so important to listen to what you are actually doing.
Compression for example is a big one for me. I no longer slap one on because you know thats what you do, but rather now I really need to hear what the compression is doing, is it for better or worse?
This I imagine can take years of practice, hardware or software.
Old 29th May 2012
  #449
Lives for gear
 
NAWAX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdamery
O.P., I teach English as a foreign language. Would you like to take some lessons on Skype? I charge $10 per hour.

I find your attitude lame and insulting.

A lot of us are making a huge effort to communicate in english. It's difficult when it's not your native language. Don't be so arrogant .
You speak proper english. Good for you.
Have a cookie.

Thank you.

Sorry for the O.T.
Old 29th May 2012
  #450
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAWAX View Post
I find your attitude lame and insulting.

A lot of us are making a huge effort to communicate in english. It's difficult when it's not your native language. Don't be so arrogant .
You speak proper english. Good for you.
Have a cookie.

Thank you.

Sorry for the O.T.
I wouldn't pay him much attention. If his language lessons are $10 an hour, his music skills must be worth half that, if not less.

Regards,
Frank
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