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Going soft??????? Yep, finally seen the light. yippeeeeee! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 25th June 2010
  #331
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Yoozer's Avatar
True longevity is in the songs and the stories you tell.
Old 25th June 2010
  #332
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The story I'm telling is how much I blinged out on my vintage hardware.

cue <bug noise youtube demo>
Old 25th June 2010
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i guess i'll say it again - who cares? this track could easily be duplicated completely ITB and nobody would be able to tell the difference.

nice little tune though!
idk about easily being duplicated. well the pads at least.. i really like the pads!
Old 25th June 2010
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architecture View Post
Architecture - Disconnected From Reality master - SoundCloud

This is what i do with my analog setup. No computers were used in the recording of this tune. Straight to tape.
Nice little ditty, but not what I'd call a commercial for the virtues of analog. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the analog synth, but I just don't hear anything in this mix that couldn't be done on a computer.

But I don't think this makes the point that you can do this on a computer if the instruments in VST form don't inspire you to do it. Being inspired by your instruments is key, right? So if you're inspired by your Minimoog, use it. If you feel it hinders you, ditch it.

Hell, I used to know a guy who played a set of what had to be 60 or so wine glasses. He took an improvisational music class with me and he had to get to class really early to fill each glass. I'd watch him tune each one with an eye dropper! Crazy. I thought, "How the hell would anyone choose that as an instrument?" No accounting for taste...
Old 25th June 2010
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i guess i'll say it again - who cares? this track could easily be duplicated completely ITB and nobody would be able to tell the difference.

nice little tune though!
Can you do it itb? Id like to hear it. Everytime I try itb its never quite there. theres always something missing to me.
Old 25th June 2010
  #336
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plastic ships's Avatar
 

i have nothing against people using softsynths. with that said i personally cant stand programming controllers for them. novation controllers are a nightmare. automap is a joke imho. another thing that gets me are the bugs and incompatibility of vstis. i dont think a hardware company could get away with releasing a product that would randomly reboot or crash. yes there are bugs in hardware but they dont seem to be as serious to me. i finally own a computer that is capable of running softsynths. but i dont seem to use them much now that i have acquired my collection of hardware synths. this could take years and yes it is a very expensive game. but if you choose your synths for there sonic fingerprint and not because of gear lust (which i have done PLENTY of times) then all the synths you own become valid.
Old 25th June 2010
  #337
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Of course as said each has unique advantages and disadvantages, but I think that even just for workflow and integration alone, it could be worth having softsynths over hardware. Also, you can have access to such a vast array of sounds.

Though I do love being able to play live from a keyboard, especially when an idea hits me, and I just open up my multitrack software and start recording melodies.
Old 26th June 2010
  #338
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We're missing a fine, but important point. The only person who owns a soft synth is the developer. We merely pay for the rights to use a license of it. We don't own anything really. Just the right to use a bunch of code.

I don't mind it though. Yeah, things change, but not that much. On my Mac, I froze things when Digital Performer hit 4.5 and it's not like it stopped working when new versions came out. I'll use it for as long as that computer runs, and then maybe move to the newest version. I enjoy the challenge of learning a new tool, or a new version of a tool. Ultimately they're all more or less similar, just like synths are. Oh. there are the oscs...
Old 26th June 2010
  #339
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I can't say I have anything against soft synths, but what I can say is that making the move from software to hardware about 5- 6 years ago has not only improved my keyboard playing skills as well as my general understanding and approach towards substractive synthesis (my main instrument are the drums by the way), but the music I have been creating since sounds a bit more loose, lusher; it just sounds more human.

EDIT: here's some of my stuff, the sound quality is pretty bad I'd say, but it's still listenable:
http://virb.com/laikenf

Last edited by laikenf; 26th June 2010 at 03:54 PM.. Reason: Want to add a link to my comment...
Old 26th June 2010
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagger288 View Post
I just got some of my first real income from music, got paid a few thousand bucks, and it was the music I made with that very same setup. This was AFTER I had spent all that money on gear
Nothing to feel bad about. You made quality music and it was rewarded. I think no one's arguing that people outside this community care or notice any difference.

I'm working on a contract gig now doing music for a Facebook game. The developer wanted me to work in their office... but wouldn't provide me with any instruments or software, so I installed my own personal copy of Live and did the whole thing with the free KORE player. They loved it. That doesn't prevent me from enjoying good hardware instruments and they saved money not buying them. I don't see a loser here.
Old 26th June 2010
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i guess i'll say it again - who cares? this track could easily be duplicated completely ITB and nobody would be able to tell the difference.

nice little tune though!
The track drips of analog, plain and simple. The track is simple enough, put the money where your mouth is.
Old 26th June 2010
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mars_holie View Post
i have nothing against people using softsynths. with that said i personally cant stand programming controllers for them. novation controllers are a nightmare. automap is a joke imho.
Well, I wouldn't call it a "joke" but the "auto" part is problematic mostly because developers don't really adhere to a standard for naming parameters. If you spend a little time with custom setting up your plug, it'll go a long way and at least give you the main controls in a way that's pretty easy to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mars_holie View Post
another thing that gets me are the bugs and incompatibility of vstis. i dont think a hardware company could get away with releasing a product that would randomly reboot or crash.
I'm not saying that I've never experienced a bug or crash, but most of the major stuff is rock solid as far as I can tell or the bugs it has don't cause it to freeze or crash. Of course, you can demo software and if you find this flaw you just don't buy it, or wait for the next bug fix to get it.
Old 26th June 2010
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeper_6 View Post
The track drips of analog, plain and simple. The track is simple enough, put the money where your mouth is.
ok, i'll give it a shot this weekend. i know i can get close, but even if it's "not close enough" i'm sure that someone else out there with more skill can pull it off. the thing about the tracks that i've heard from Architecture is that they seem quite 'polished', and i don't think that's a bad thing at all. they just don't seem 'raw' in the way that i generally perceive analog to sound.

at least he didn't flip out on me this time. heh really though, i don't see any point in his comment/link here in this thread. he's obviously very proud of using only hardware, and that's cool, it just doesn't seem to serve any purpose to state that in this case.
Old 26th June 2010
  #344
i dunno


i find the sounds i need synth wise for what i do right in reason. i usually don't play them start to finish either, i go in and draw them by hand mostly. sometimes i play a little to get the general placement and sound then go in and move them around and fix them up, cut and paste.

we'll see what record does to all that.

though i will say i don't think i could get the same sounds out of reason i can get out of my moog's. i haven't really tried, but i kinda don't see the point either. why not just plug the damn thing? i think it'd be a control over parameters issue more over sound however. though sound probably wouldn't match either.

(i'm also kinda half assed on the keys. i never really intended to do keys it just kinda happened that way)
Old 26th June 2010
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyc View Post
a serious question though, if your old classic synth is insured and stops working through normal use, what happens ??
You thump the side a few times and give it a bit of a shake. If that doesn't work you can also try shouting at it.

It worked for my JP6.
Old 26th June 2010
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i guess i'll say it again - who cares? this track could easily be duplicated completely ITB and nobody would be able to tell the difference.

nice little tune though!
àeverytimes in those discussion, someone need to come's in and say how it only comes down to music and melodies, and that the tools in not important: we know that.

Go make this song ITB. this song, indeed, breath analog.
Old 27th June 2010
  #347
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100th Monkey View Post
You thump the side a few times and give it a bit of a shake. If that doesn't work you can also try shouting at it.

It worked for my JP6.


some of the older synths are really into bdsm.
Old 27th June 2010
  #348
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It's been said a million times ... but ... here it goes again ...

Use the gear that inspires you ... to play, work, produce ...

It's odd that people would be at odds over this ...

Are they ... ???
Old 27th June 2010
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
It's been said a million times ... but ... here it goes again ...

Use the gear that inspires you ... to play, work, produce ...

It's odd that people would be at odds over this ...

Are they ... ???
Well, this IS the internet and a VERY serious issue!

I mean, hardware peeps have a ton of money and ego invested in making sure it's still cool to own all that cool hardware and software peeps have their ego invested in the fact they can't afford that hardware, but who'd want it anyway because software is so much easier, convenient and affordable and are you telling me you can't make a pro album ITB?!!!

Very serious, indeed!


heh


But seriously, I understand this thread (at least, the initial intent... there's plenty appealing to both, I just can't understand why it has to be one or the other)


-Andrews
Old 27th June 2010
  #350
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architecture View Post
Architecture - Disconnected From Reality master - SoundCloud

This is what i do with my analog setup. No computers were used in the recording of this tune. Straight to tape.

I liked the tune, and as far as I have been able to mix, my mixes don't sound like that!
Old 27th June 2010
  #351
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
The pure summing units (so it is argued) don't tend to add a great deal to a mix summed ITB. The TLA units though do sound really sweet.. they aren't transparent sounding to me at all, from what I can hear but they do sound great..

there is a very interesting video interview with The Free Masons and they have a song in Logic they, have been working on for about a Month for some reason.. probably some technical issues. but they have obviously been tweaking that Mix for that time too so they are at this kind of, end game stage in the ITB Mix. at the end of the interview He starts playing the Track and it sounds pretty good. a good mix, arrangement with automation. etc

Then He runs it through a Large format TLA desk and within 3 minutes it sounds outstanding.

I think this is a big point. It certainly is possible to get a similar sound ITB, but much quicker - and much more expensive - to do it OTB.
Old 27th June 2010
  #352
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
... and software peeps have their ego invested in the fact they can't afford that hardware, but who'd want it anyway because software is so much easier, convenient and affordable and are you telling me you can't make a pro album ITB?!!!
well, i've had a ton of hardware over the years (both analog and digital) and was very anti-computer/software myself for a long time. now i don't think it matters so much, and think the benefits of using software actually outweigh those of using hardware. a mix of both is great too. i just think it's funny when someone claims that software is so inferior to hardware or that it can't sound nearly as good. especially when they feel the need to speak up about it whenever software is mentioned.
Old 27th June 2010
  #353
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timbreman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architecture View Post
Can you do it itb? Id like to hear it. Everytime I try itb its never quite there. theres always something missing to me.
Hey man sounding good. You're getting better!

Keep it up!
Old 27th June 2010
  #354
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I made the transition to all softsynths around 2005 and worked almost entirely ITB from then until a few months ago. Ever since I got into hard disk recording with a Macintosh II circa 1993, I was dreaming of the day computers would get fast enough to do an entire mix in software. I do love the streamlined workflow - everything in front of you on a big screen with total recall. No patch cords snaking around, less equipment to potentially break down, etc.

It's a sound issue, not an interface/workflow thing that has found me bringing a bit of hardware back just lately. I've come to find that some of the sounds I was trying to get with softsynths are, for me, more readily and satisfyingly achieved with real analog synths. I struggled for a long time to get the kind of really tight, focused, solid synth basses from software that my Moog now provides effortlessly. After a few days with the Polaris, it's like, damn...these are analog poly sounds with some real hair on their chest.

I wish I could get those kinds of sounds from software to a more satisfying degree. Until I can, a hybrid setup seems to be the way to go for me.
Old 27th June 2010
  #355
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I will agree that this could be easily recreated in the box. It would not sound the same though. It is true that most listeners would not care, in fact most would probably prefer the crispness of an all soft synth mix. This is what they have been conditioned to find appealing. Sterile, precise sounds. It really is only us synth nerds who tend to prefer the slightly dull sound of analog that seem to have no outline to the sound, it is as if the analoge sound is feathered into the surrounding soundscape, where as a soft synth is inked in hard lines. I find that they both have their place, just as a fine point pen and a paint brush preform different functions. Neither are better, just different tools for different jobs. Mind you, I was not of this opinion a couple of years ago. It is easy to get caught up in synth snobbery, as I once did, it will however only impede your ability to make music without limitation, or preconceived methods that lead to redundant sounding tracks. In the end, it is all about the music, and wether or not it moves you. Give David Gilmore a 10 dollar guitar and a peavy amp and he will still stir your soul.
Give Lady GAGA a 1956 goldtop lespaul with a marshal stack and you will beg her to stop playing after 2 seconds. Paint, sound, clay, dance, it is all about the ability of the creator to emote with whatever tools available.

Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i guess i'll say it again - who cares? this track could easily be duplicated completely ITB and nobody would be able to tell the difference.

nice little tune though!
Old 27th June 2010
  #356
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
I will agree that this could be easily recreated in the box. It would not sound the same though. It is true that most listeners would not care, in fact most would probably prefer the crispness of an all soft synth mix. This is what they have been conditioned to find appealing. Sterile, precise sounds. It really is only us synth nerds who tend to prefer the slightly dull sound of analog that seem to have no outline to the sound, it is as if the analoge sound is feathered into the surrounding soundscape, where as a soft synth is inked in hard lines. I find that they both have their place, just as a fine point pen and a paint brush preform different functions. Neither are better, just different tools for different jobs. Mind you, I was not of this opinion a couple of years ago. It is easy to get caught up in synth snobbery, as I once did, it will however only impede your ability to make music without limitation, or preconceived methods that lead to redundant sounding tracks. In the end, it is all about the music, and wether or not it moves you. Give David Gilmore a 10 dollar guitar and a peavy amp and he will still stir your soul.
Give Lady GAGA a 1956 goldtop lespaul with a marshal stack and you will beg her to stop playing after 2 seconds. Paint, sound, clay, dance, it is all about the ability of the creator to emote with whatever tools available.

Scott
Well put. For a long time I'd listen to tracks like the one posted and say, "So? Maybe software can't reproduce this... but why would you want to?" A log of analog stuff sounds kind of meh to me. I'm a guy who hates Vangellis.

It was only when Living Sounds posted some of his tunes that I heard something special. Note, it wasn't all analog, he loves himself a DX7, as we all know. But there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that there was a "life" and "warmth" to his track that you'd be hard pressed to get from a VST. The next weekend I went out and bought a Studio Electronics ATC-1.

I love it. I don't care if I can get close with some VSTs (I can) I just like having it and working with it. I even love the way it works, though it's not known for it's UI. I love it like I love my G&L Skyhawk guitar. A love that I don't really have for any soft synth, even though I do like a lot of them quite a bit. I do often here from people here that even my ATC-1 is "new" and with it's digital components lacks what this old timers have, but I say, "enough is enough." If I won the lottery tomorrow you probably wouldn't find a minimoog or ARP 2600 in my studio, but I sure would put a fully loaded Studio Electronics Omega in there. I don't think there'd ever be a place in my world for a synth that couldn't store presets. Playing is far more important to me than sound design.
Old 27th June 2010
  #357
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Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
... end, it is all about the music, and wether or not it moves you. Give David Gilmore a 10 dollar guitar and a peavy amp and he will still stir your soul.
Give Lady GAGA a 1956 goldtop lespaul with a marshal stack and you will beg her to stop playing after 2 seconds. Paint, sound, clay, dance, it is all about the ability of the creator to emote with whatever tools available.

Scott
Well, yeah ... Lady GaGa doesn't play guitar ...
Old 27th June 2010
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
Well, yeah ... Lady GaGa doesn't play guitar ...
Skin flute?
Old 27th June 2010
  #359
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in a blue field's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Well put. For a long time I'd listen to tracks like the one posted and say, "So? Maybe software can't reproduce this... but why would you want to?" A log of analog stuff sounds kind of meh to me. I'm a guy who hates Vangellis.

i totally agree, i think it can get lost in translation that people are sometimes referring to a type of sound, like an era-sound, when they say things along the lines of "it just sounds better". i realized this when the Dark Energy came out. read what people had to say about it here and a couple other places, then went and listened to samples. i can understand why some people would want to emulate that linoleum Kraftwerk sound but not me, i hate that sound, and thats most of all you can get out of the DE.

i'm just sayin', i could totally see how someone could buy a piece of gear kuz of what they read on sites like GS, and then they get home with it and it's like, "WTF, who set this thing to 'old' and then broke off the switch??" it's true that analogue does have some qualities that are still not yet mimicked to perfection in software, and that there is technically a fuller, purer tone, like in terms of data there is more there mathematically, but if that's all you're looking for in analogue, if all analogue is to you is what digital cant do from a purely technical perspective, you really dont need to go all out on an Andromeda or anything. even if you were to take the dinkiest sonic source you could find, like one of those open-faced bug synths that was only an oscillator, if you start with that osc instead of the one in your softsynth, bring a base sine into your DAW properly and then manipulate from there, you're already lookin' at a sonically superior end result than had you been all ITB
Old 27th June 2010
  #360
Lives for gear
 

ive been using soft synths for 1 whole day now and my studio is looking relaxed and tidy....anyway,its all about how and when you use your sounds.But i will say you cant beat the personality of different hardware.I think its important to use samples of hardware in your software.at least!!!A progressive producer will say something one day,evolve and do something else the next.So no opinions taken seriously.
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