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Delay plugin: changing delay time in realtime without pitch shift? Analog Processors (HW)
Old 6th March 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Chao's Avatar
 

Delay plugin: changing delay time in realtime without pitch shift?

Not so sure if there is a such product.... I am trying to change delay time of a delay plugin in real-time (for example gradually increase the delay time), but the pitch will also be shifted gradually too. Is there any way or a delay plug-in does not change the pitch when you change delay time in automation?
Old 6th March 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Some of the Eventide delay algorithms can do this. i.e. TimeFactor Digital Delay algorithm can using the crossfade parameter. Not sure about plug ins sorry.
Old 6th March 2010
  #3
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Admittedly... I'm drunk right now... but...

Why would a delay affect pitch?

Most software delays should have a toggle switch between sync'd to tempo or free. If you put it into free, you should be able to automate the frequency of the delay at will.

Please forgive me if I'm missing something really obvious here.
Old 6th March 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chao View Post
Not so sure if there is a such product.... I am trying to change delay time of a delay plugin in real-time (for example gradually increase the delay time), but the pitch will also be shifted gradually too. Is there any way or a delay plug-in does not change the pitch when you change delay time in automation?
Midi Clock.

i remember when i had OTB...
the LinnDrum LM-2 was Clock Master... and had a LinnClock to Midi Clock Box from dinsync canada,
also had Midiman Thru 1x4 and Merge 2x2 boxes...
the Delays were connected with Midi, Ensoniq DP/4, spx990, LXP-15, also the Juno-60 arpegio clock & all other drum machines...
mix was almost done...
while it was playing the patterns, decided to turn the Tempo Knob down gradually,
hearing the delays follow the tempo was an amazing moment...
i should had recorded that... if others could feel those moments.

i almost never record those amazing moments.
always waiting for a more thinked moment, a less spontaneous moment.
Old 6th March 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonator View Post
Admittedly... I'm drunk right now... but...

Why would a delay affect pitch?

Most software delays should have a toggle switch between sync'd to tempo or free. If you put it into free, you should be able to automate the frequency of the delay at will.

Please forgive me if I'm missing something really obvious here.
seems the question its wrong.
Old 6th March 2010
  #6
Gear Addict
 
dub3000's Avatar
most delays do something like a tape delay - to get a longer delay on a tape delay, you slow the tape down, which will reduce the pitch. most digital delays will do something very similar.

what the OP is asking for is something that does a time stretch on the buffer when the delay time changes.

i haven't heard of a delay that does this. if you're just working with MIDI you could probably get a MIDI-based delay (that just delays your MIDI notes, not the audio) but i wouldn't expect that to work well.

off the top of my head, i imagine it would be possible, but would burn a LOT of CPU.
Old 6th March 2010
  #7
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aeonlux's Avatar
 

If the delay time is changed quickly, you can get clicks in the delay output. If the delay time is interpolated so that clicks do not occur, you will get some degree of pitch variation.

If you have a modular Eventide, you can program a delay such that a (secondary) pitch-shifter is used to reverse the effect of an interpolated delay line time change - but you would need to map out the pitch change based on the delta and then build curves that would map to the shifter.


cheers,
Ian
Old 6th March 2010
  #8
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XAXAU's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chao View Post
Not so sure if there is a such product.... I am trying to change delay time of a delay plugin in real-time (for example gradually increase the delay time), but the pitch will also be shifted gradually too. Is there any way or a delay plug-in does not change the pitch when you change delay time in automation?
There sure are, UAD Cooper Time Cube is the funkiest of them all. UAD Space Echo sounds bananas when it pitch shifts tho
Old 7th March 2010
  #9
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bleepbleep's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chao View Post
Is there any way or a delay plug-in does not change the pitch when you change delay time in automation?
short answer - fabfilter timeless - it lets you choose between 'time-stretching' mode which keeps the same pitch when you change the time, and 'tape' style - which changes the pitch
Old 8th March 2010
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Chao's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleepbleep View Post
short answer - fabfilter timeless - it lets you choose between 'time-stretching' mode which keeps the same pitch when you change the time, and 'tape' style - which changes the pitch
Thanks! I really appreciate! Actually I bought fabfilter timeless when they just released, but I almost have never used it. The problem is it doesn't work with DP properly. Unless I use this plug-in on a continuous track, the delay repeats with stop at the end of a wave file. Other delay plug-ins work just fine, including u-he or DP built-in delay plug-ins.

fabfilter released an update probably last year, but I haven't tried it. If any of you tested it on DP, that will be great.

Thanks!
Old 17th March 2010
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Echolux tape delay plugin

Hi guys My company
3 Ring Circuits
Makes a tape delay plug in modeled around the Echoplex
You can real time change delay but the pitch will change untill it "settle's"and then it will be the same pitch again
it also has that great ethereal quality the Echoplex units had!
Check it out

Cheers
Chaz

3 Ring Circuits
Old 17th March 2010
  #12
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by simonator View Post
Admittedly... I'm drunk right now... but...

Why would a delay affect pitch?
Because f=1/T

where

f is the frequency
T is the period.

From the formula above you can see that when T increases, then f decreases and vice versa.

With analog delays, when changing the delay time, you will hear a smooth zip whereas with most digital delays you will hear clicks. The clicks are there because most algorithms don't interpolate between subsequent values.

The picodelay algorithm in Eventides doesn't produce such clicks
Old 18th March 2010
  #13
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Sensorychaos's Avatar
 

formulas at their bests
Old 18th March 2010
  #14
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I'm fairly sure the delay on the Kurzweil Mangler will do this, in theory you could either turn the data knob in realtime or perhaps more accurately - send a CC control signal. Not sure how easy it is to pull off perfectly performance wise, but I remember the pitch didn't zip around like it does on most delays when adjusting the delay time.
Old 18th March 2010
  #15
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evangelista's Avatar
 

I'd probably create the effect by manually pasting the "delays" on a separate track. If the input isn't too complex, it shouldn't take long.
Old 19th March 2010
  #16
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pr0gr4m's Avatar
I don't know if this would be ideal but instead of changing the time on an existing delay you could create 2 (or more) presets that each have the delay times you desire. Then when the delay must change, change to the appropriate delay preset.

Another possibility would be to use tap tempo. Generally when changing delay times via tap tempo, the pitch of the delay doesn't change. Of course, this means the device must have a tap tempo feature.
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