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Oberheim Matrix 1000 vs Matrix 6?
Old 21st February 2012
  #31
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🎧 10 years


Old 21st February 2012 | Show parent
  #32
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🎧 10 years
OP-X Pro II is one of the few VA soft synths that I still keep in my computer!
Old 21st February 2012 | Show parent
  #33
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectwoofer View Post
OP-X Pro II is one of the few VA soft synths that I still keep in my computer!
I tried demoing it but the demo terms are amazingly frustrating. It's like copy protection taken to the degree that they don't want you using it!

There's the two week or so demo period. I get that.

There's the restart the demo every 10 minutes, which can be annoying but tolerable.

And then there's the audio drop out every 4-5 seconds! I mean, c'mon.

And the audio drop out is the most annoying because of it's frequency! Give me 12-15 seconds maybe? It drops out with every other note. It drops out while I'm trying to adjust the sound. I can't program a decent sweep without it dropping out numerous times while I'm adjust the knobs! It makes the demo virtually unplayable.

I will admit it sounded great, but I promptly deleted it within a half hour, because I was so frustrated with the insanely frequent drop outs. Regardless of the fact that I liked it, it'd be a cold day in heck before I hand money over to them simply because it put such a bad taste in my mouth. I'd rather hunt down a real Obie and pay for it!

It's strange because the demo of regular-non pro model instead uses noise bursts instead of silence. While far more annoying, they're much less frequent then the audio drop outs in the pro version. Anyway, as annoying as the noise bursts were, the non-pro demo was more playable which is what made me want to try the pro version. Which promptly killed any enthusiasm that that I had once I found out how frustratingly unplayable the demo was. I guess the programmers figured that since drop outs are less annoying than noise bursts, they could hit you with them with at a ridiculous rate.

Regards,
Frank
Old 23rd February 2012 | Show parent
  #34
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thermos's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post


I thought that OP-X demo video was a funny test, when I first saw it I thought to myself "well I guess I don't enjoy the sound of the OB-X." Then he reveals that its the soft synth. Later in the video when he is using the actual OB-X it sounds super great.

I think the Matrix 6 sounds a hell of a lot better than that soft synth.
Old 23rd February 2012 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 10 years
well - I have an OB8 and Ive done blind tests with the OP-X (against OB-X). I have to say it sounds very good. It still misses some of the feel and softness of analogue - but it is an extremely thorough piece of work....and very useful to have around.
Old 4th October 2014 | Show parent
  #36
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Interesting thread. I'm getting OB GAS, and really want a Matrix 6/6r/1000. Good to know about the MIDI shortcomings on the 1000. Ideally the rack version would make sense for me. However, I also have and love the Roland JX3P.

I don't know, a couple of comments that they are similar. Does the Matrix do PWM? That would be enough for me as that is the main shortcoming of the 3P. The Kiwi3P is a great synth but I feel the sound of the oscillators and filter are different enough from the OB to justify it as another reasonable vintage poly. Or am I hearing things? Between those two, and maybe adding a Korg Polysix or Poly600 I should have 80's cheez in spades.
Old 5th October 2014 | Show parent
  #37
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Interesting thread. I'm getting OB GAS, and really want a Matrix 6/6r/1000. Good to know about the MIDI shortcomings on the 1000. Ideally the rack version would make sense for me. However, I also have and love the Roland JX3P.

I don't know, a couple of comments that they are similar. Does the Matrix do PWM? That would be enough for me as that is the main shortcoming of the 3P. The Kiwi3P is a great synth but I feel the sound of the oscillators and filter are different enough from the OB to justify it as another reasonable vintage poly. Or am I hearing things? Between those two, and maybe adding a Korg Polysix or Poly600 I should have 80's cheez in spades.
hey buddy, I see your posts, and I feel like our set up is somewhat similar as is our appreciation for the machines that make up said set up! kudos

I'm gonna go against everyone and say that midi implementation is WORSE on the 6r (which is the one I have). Yes, the 1000 has the "hard" error when certain parameters are edited via midi, which is a serious problem, but aftermarket firmwares have been developed to correct this issue.

The 6/6r falls behind the 1000 in its ability to receive midi signed bit negative values for parameters that are bipolar. This is a headache to say the least as it defeats the purpose of a midi controller for a substantial part of the synth - ie, you still have to reach for the membranes to set your value if they are below 0. The 6/6r also chokes just as hard as the 1000 when you change a parameter too fast. It is a myth that it's smoother than the 1000.

It does do PWM and with the mod matrix you get heaps of other interesting modulating possibilities. In my experience so far (still learning the beast), it's not a bass synth. Yea, it can do some interesting low octave osc tones, but they will not actually have low frequency content. The triangle wave has gotten me a little more low end, but I feel other machines excel at rumble way more than this one.
Old 5th October 2014 | Show parent
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matias_thinKing View Post
hey buddy, I see your posts, and I feel like our set up is somewhat similar as is our appreciation for the machines that make up said set up! kudos

I'm gonna go against everyone and say that midi implementation is WORSE on the 6r (which is the one I have). Yes, the 1000 has the "hard" error, which is a serious problem, but aftermarket firmwares have been developed to correct this issue.

The 6/6r falls behind the 1000 in its ability to receive midi signed bit negative values for parameters that are bipolar. This is a headache to say the least as it defeats the purpose of a midi controller for a substantial part of the synth - ie, you still have to reach for the membranes to set your value if they are below 0. The 6/6r also chokes just as hard as the 1000 when you change a parameter too fast. It is a myth that it's smoother than the 1000.

It does do PWM and with the mod matrix you get heaps of other interesting modulating possibilities. In my experience so far (still learning the beast), it's not a bass synth. Yea, it can do some interesting low octave osc tones, but they will not actually have low frequency content. The triangle wave has gotten me a little more low end, but I feel other machines excel at rumble way more than this one.
Thanks for the post. Seems like they both have their pros and cons. I have seen that there is a firmware upgrade for the 1000 out there. I wonder how difficult that is to install? I'm not technically inclined in that particular department but luckily have a great tech I've worked with before in my area.

Either way they have the same basic sound, right? I don't care much for presets or patch memory, so either way I should be good.

I feel well covered in the bass department with the Kiwi-3P. Hoping to use the Matrix for brassy leads and pad duties. Probably layer up the 3P and Matrix for all sorts if DCO madness.

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.
Old 5th October 2014 | Show parent
  #39
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Either way they have the same basic sound, right? I don't care much for presets or patch memory, so either way I should be good.
Well, the reason I sought the 6 vs the 1000 is due to its oscillator clocking architecture. The 1000 uses the same clock for all the oscillators, whereas the 6 uses high freq oscillators (not clocks) to pitch the oscillators (more information here - [oberheim matrix-1000 : hardware notes])

I have read complaints on this site of the 1000 being accordion-like due to its clocking architecture... I will admit, even with the m6r, it's easy to end up "accordion-like" too .. kind of like when poop-brown was the color I'd always end up with when trying to mix different paints in art class.

I've heard plenty of demos of the 1000 and 6 where neither sounds like an accordion, so I think this is a matter of expertise patching the synth and not so much either one's oscillator architecture.
Old 5th October 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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atma's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by matias_thinKing View Post
Well, the reason I sought the 6 vs the 1000 is due to its oscillator clocking architecture. The 1000 uses the same clock for all the oscillators, whereas the 6 uses high freq oscillators (not clocks) to pitch the oscillators (more information here - [oberheim matrix-1000 : hardware notes])

I have read complaints on this site of the 1000 being accordion-like due to its clocking architecture... I will admit, even with the m6r, it's easy to end up "accordion-like" too .. kind of like when poop-brown was the color I'd always end up with when trying to mix different paints in art class.

I've heard plenty of demos of the 1000 and 6 where neither sounds like an accordion, so I think this is a matter of expertise patching the synth and not so much either one's oscillator architecture.
i'd definitely get a 6/6r for this reason. the dcos on the 1000 are very tightly locked and the lack of any drift does make them sound digital. i personally really disliked the 1000's sound and felt like it took a great deal of effort to get it to not sound digital.
Old 6th October 2014
  #41
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🎧 5 years
well, with the 6r, I have noticed that the pitch shifts around, but it does so on a macro-scale (ie, I'll have to use the master tune to move it a few cents to tune it occasionally). The overall tone doesn't change though, and it still feels like a very tightly tuned machine. The synth does offer heaps of modulations possibilities to liven up the oscillators, and although the oscillators can make the synth a bit of challenge to program, I would say the filter more than makes up for it. It's from another dimension. All its little swirls and crackly bleep bloops are capable of making one hear colors.

there are so many demos that demonstrate both the 1000 and 6 can sing like the best of them that I think it just takes a little bit of time and patience to fully learn
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #42
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Interesting thread. I'm getting OB GAS, and really want a Matrix 6/6r/1000.
Just don't expect a big Oberheim sound, the Matrix6 series is a fairly bland sounding budget synth that doesn't really have anything going for it, other than the mod matrix.

The mod matrix makes for some, for budget gear, unusual sounds, as you basically have a modular synth under the hood, but the sounds still lack that edge/presence/refinement that you can hear from far more expensive stuff.

The only thing that it does very well (imo) is actually a few pwm pads, the rest of the "standard" sounds it can do you can find just as nice in other synths.

I actually have one (M6r), and it has been broken for quite some time, yet i have never missed it much, to me that really says it all.
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #43
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AnalogGuy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The Robert Wittek's "workshop" demo of the Matrix 6 was truely amazing and one reason to buy and test this synth. Particulary because it doesn't use the lame presets:

http://www.synthesizer.at/audio/matrix6_workshop.mp3

The programmability along with the modulation matrix makes it possible to make very expressive sounds. You can have infinity amount of programmability around velocity, aftertouch, two individual pedals and three wheels, what a heaven!

There's even two totally programmable pedal inputs at the back of the rack version too!
Old 6th October 2014
  #44
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🎧 5 years
yet another great demo!

and for anyone dismissing the m6... Com Truise has stated several times it was his go-to synth (before getting his hands on an xpander recently). Dude was able to coax a career using the M6, so... again, perhaps it's not the synth that's the issue....
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #45
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by matias_thinKing View Post
yet another great demo!

and for anyone dismissing the m6... Com Truise has stated several times it was his go-to synth (before getting his hands on an xpander recently). Dude was able to coax a career using the M6, so... again, perhaps it's not the synth that's the issue....
It never is the instrument - i mean people have based careers on simple drummachines and primitive boxes like the 303.

As a budget synth the M6 series is of course a fine and usable synth, just like the rest of the budget synths out there - but what i was trying to say is that it isn't anything special either.

In short, you shouldn't expect a big "VCO Oberheim" sound out of it, sure, it has the name on the front, but in the end it is just another DCO synth from the 80's with a few unusual mod routings
Old 6th October 2014
  #46
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🎧 5 years
I see what you mean, and yea, an obx, ob8, matrix12/xpander all probably sound very lush and pleasant just by opening up the filter and listening to the raw oscillator tone. There's something to be said about something sounding good no matter what. I haven't been so lucky to witness this firsthand in my lifetime yet... but one day....
Old 6th October 2014
  #47
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🎧 10 years
Still want one. The price keeps going up, slowly though.
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #48
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
It never is the instrument - i mean people have based careers on simple drummachines and primitive boxes like the 303.

As a budget synth the M6 series is of course a fine and usable synth, just like the rest of the budget synths out there - but what i was trying to say is that it isn't anything special either.

In short, you shouldn't expect a big "VCO Oberheim" sound out of it, sure, it has the name on the front, but in the end it is just another DCO synth from the 80's with a few unusual mod routings
It's ok to "like" that DCO sound though right? It's very mid 80's and what I grew up with lol.
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #49
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
It's ok to "like" that DCO sound though right? It's very mid 80's and what I grew up with lol.
heh i am not a judge of taste, so like it all you want.
Personally i love my 80's budget synths, but neither of them is "something special".

Anyway, you are the embodiment of someone who demonstrates clearly that it isn't the instrument but the person using it that matters, so all of this is moot in regards to you.
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #50
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
heh i am not a judge of taste, so like it all you want.
Personally i love my 80's budget synths, but neither of them is "something special".

Anyway, you are the embodiment of someone who demonstrates clearly that it isn't the instrument but the person using it that matters, so all of this is moot in regards to you.
I think the m6 takes a little chorus well, especially analogue chorus, fills in stereotypical polysynth comp patches decently if mixed well with exciters on the bass and highs (for sizzle) but it's work to get it to sound really nice, which is ok as I'm used to it, but I will get a proper VCO polysynth one day, something that just sounds "wow!" just plugged in to a line in, I'm thinking Jupiter 4 or OBXa or chroma Polaris? It might be just something nice to look at and play on, as I don't really have much call for analogue polysynths in my music really.

As far as the "it's not the gear" thing goes, I'm hoping eyes (or ears) will stare in disbelief at my upcoming tg55 demo, it's astoundingly nice for a £40 Rompler, classy filters like the SY77.
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #51
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
heh i am not a judge of taste, so like it all you want.
Personally i love my 80's budget synths, but neither of them is "something special".

Anyway, you are the embodiment of someone who demonstrates clearly that it isn't the instrument but the person using it that matters, so all of this is moot in regards to you.
Well ; my MATRIX 1000 is going nowhere even if some vco s synths are here ( STUDIO ELECTRONICS SE-1 ; ANALOGUE SOLUTIONS TELEMARK ) ... it might be useless ? for somebody owning OBX ... but it s what i ll call a real outsider for me ... No problem with you not liking it s sound ; and i ll assume you might have some of the monsters in your arsenal


PEACE


MORDICUS
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #52
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I wanted a budget analog poly in rack format some years ago and my eyes were on a M1000. Then I discovered the Tetra...no contest imo really!
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #53
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MORDICUS View Post
Well ; my MATRIX 1000 is going nowhere even if some vco s synths are here ( STUDIO ELECTRONICS SE-1 ; ANALOGUE SOLUTIONS TELEMARK ) ... it might be useless ? for somebody owning OBX ... but it s what i ll call a real outsider for me ... No problem with you not liking it s sound ; and i ll assume you might have some of the monsters in your arsenal


PEACE


MORDICUS
Actually, the only officially GS-approved "monster" i have in my arsenal is the JP4 - all the rest are budget DCO's or *gasp* digitals.

I just don't feel the need for monstersynths, remember, i am the guy who got rid of a JP8 because i found it boring

Hey, the cheap synths do their job just as well as the more expensive options, they just need to be coaxed a bit more (like Xanderbeans described) than the synths you just plug in and go "wow" over.
Old 11th April 2019
  #54
I know it’s an old thread but a great one many still read everyday so in the namesake of archiving this amazing box I’d alike to ad some very important info about the matrix1000 and 6r not yet mentioned:

First, a brief history of this amazing yet tragic model by Oberhiem. A known issue with the Matrix 1000 is that the PSU hums like an air conditioner. It is not an easy (or cheap) fix. Look it up, all units share this common problem. I didn't know that when I bought mine on Reverb for $700 in 2018 and quickly realized I was going to have to gt rid of it... or have the entire PSU custom built from the ground up. No real studio can have a humming unit in a rack. This solved the issue but ended up costing quite a bit of bench time and parts (High end MeanWell PSU 45.5W,[email protected] [email protected],,UL). But then the unit wouldn’t make a sound. It would light up but had no audio output so I had to take it back to another guy at Patchwork’s in Brooklyn who charged me $400 (....!?!?!?!) to rebuild the guts all over again. Not only did this solve the humming psu (it’s vibrating, technically) but it lowered the actual noise floor of the unit. You can also ad a jumper cable between EPROMs to speed up response time. Upgrading a mtrix1000 gives you quite a beast. It has all that “Stranger Things” thick grit no digital modeling synth can do. It’s one of the lushest synths I’ve heard. As others have mentioned, with a controller you can edit most everything but the 6r still wins for onboard editing and better midi.

Other upgrade improvements include:
• Fasterprocessing of parameter changes that need a modulation matrix rebuild, there's still a small lag but it's much better than before.
• Unisondetune, controlled by MIDI CC #94 (Celeste Level), value from 0 (no detune) to 127 (strongly out of tune). It is always active, even in polymode. Values around 2-6 add a slow VCO-like detune that helps liven up the sound and keeps poly mode sounding in tune.
• Bug fixes made by Nordcore.
• MIDI NRPN parameters editing

Both are worth every penny and going up everyday. The 6 is a killer board too!
Old 11th April 2019
  #55
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I have two Matrix 1000 units (A blackface and a whiteface) and both are dead silent. I still use them all the time and I've never heard a hum or a vibration. I bought them a few years ago before they exploded in price (I paid $350 for the blackface and $400 for the whiteface) and they've been very reliable and as I said, dead silent.

My studio is treated and pretty quiet. If they were making any kind of an audible hum, I would have heard something after all these years. It's possible your unit got banged around or had an issue? I mean, I guess it possible that some units make noise, but neither of mine do.

Now Eventide effect units make a nice hum. That I can hear plain as day.
Old 12th April 2019 | Show parent
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
I have two Matrix 1000 units (A blackface and a whiteface) and both are dead silent. I still use them all the time and I've never heard a hum or a vibration. I bought them a few years ago before they exploded in price (I paid $350 for the blackface and $400 for the whiteface) and they've been very reliable and as I said, dead silent.

My studio is treated and pretty quiet. If they were making any kind of an audible hum, I would have heard something after all these years. It's possible your unit got banged around or had an issue? I mean, I guess it possible that some units make noise, but neither of mine do.

Now Eventide effect units make a nice hum. That I can hear plain as day.
There is the likelihood that a given batch of toroidal transformers might be more buzzy than another, or that the "potting", so to speak, cracks or loosens over a period of time, causing physical vibration when excited by an AC mains signal.
Old 12th April 2019 | Show parent
  #57
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🎧 5 years
I've bought and sold a number of TX81z units and about a third of them buzzed. Turns out it was actually the top cover physically moving caused by flux leakage from the old transformer.

I don't know if it is the same issue with the Matrix, but if the noise goes away with the top cover off (or if the cover is held in place), then it might be. I think the official Yamaha fix was to install a shield.

I didn't hear it in my line recordings, just studio buzz (which is plenty annoying).
Old 12th April 2019 | Show parent
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml designs View Post
I know it’s an old thread but a great one many still read everyday so in the namesake of archiving this amazing box I’d alike to ad some very important info about the matrix1000 and 6r not yet mentioned:
cool post- and great info

I remember mine had this hum.
- and I bought it new in 1988 when it was 1st released.
It wasn't loud enough to hear unless I put my ear close to the unit itself (I used mine live and in the studio)- so for me, not significant.
The 6r I had did not exhibit this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jml designs View Post
It’s one of the lushest synths I’ve heard.
Vintage VCO polysynth time may alter that perception (Matrix 12, P5 rev2, etc)
- until I owned an OB-8, I thought the M6/1000 was the bees knees.
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