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most transparent noise gates you've used on synths?
Old 16th November 2009
  #1
most transparent noise gates you've used on synths?

im using buncha synths live.. my band is 16 - 24 channels typical. some boards or fx (like space echo) are a tad noisy, and of course there's a noticeable build up esp at PA levels. some of these aren't used for longer stretches during performance, but i dont have time to mute ..


now im thinking it would help if i picked up one of those 4-channel noise gate units and put em on inserts .. think that would clear up overall picture considerably


however, im wondering if a cheap noise gate (i.e. a cheap VCA) could phuk-up/colour my sound.. or smear attack on opening. i've experienced this with some other cheap equipment, but dunno nothing bout gates..


any recommendations? what was transparent that u used, that worked well ?

been lookin at dBx 363X or 1074... are la audio, behringer and other lower-end multi channel units really crap, or they're good enough for live ? i presume not quite..

of course, im not looking for high end studio stuff. a Drawmer DS404 is tad over the top, for example. as it costs almost like the mixer were getting (the wz3).




thanks
Old 18th November 2009
  #2
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Hi Clusterchord,

as far as signal path is considered, they can't fcuk up too much with gates. I think most (all?) units today use something from dbx 2150/2180 family tree of VCAs, so "cheap" VCA is not so much of a problem. When gate is fully open there are two things that can be detrimental to performance: high impedance at controll port of VCA which increases a bit THD, and noise at output of sidechain which modulates a bit audio passing through . All in all, not much to worry about. What sets apart drawmer from behringer is sofisticated sidechain/detector, not audiopath so much. Since you will use it as sort of auto-mute (attack at min, release at max), even simple gates will work.

Much bigger problem with cheap units is reliability. I had hilarious problems with Behringer gear, and I would say that using them for live is big no-no. My advice would be to ask around PA circles what is reliable dBx workhorse and get that unit.

cheerz
Urosh
Old 18th November 2009
  #3
drawmer DF320

thanks a lot for the response..

yes ive been thinking of dBx units, or maybe a used Drawmer MX40.. they are rather cheap for what they do, and even have a bandpass filter to set frequency conscious gating.. could be interesting even in the studio..



btw just remembered another option in dealing with noise in live performance.. the drawmer DF320/330. iirc some of my collegues used it to great sucess with some noisy sources, in the studio.

considering its a single end NR system that works all the time, not a gate, im wondering how it colours the sound, and would it be acceptable in a live gig situation ..?
Old 18th November 2009
  #4
Deleted 8456dd3
Guest
A Signal Transport Synth Driver would be good for you..

Tom,
You should look at the Signal Transport Synth-Driver units.
Takes unbalanced synth signal, balanced the signal adds 6db of transparent gain and outputs a clean balanced signal (also has ground lift switches for each channel) ... you can run long balanced cables.
Its ideal for what you need- it ups the level and drops the noise (and hum if present, with the ground lift switches)
Without trying to spam this thread, i am selling one of these 16 channel units for Β£200 with power supply. There is also a 32 channel version on Ebay in the US if you need more channels- although its a lot more pricey.
Old 18th November 2009
  #5
problem with gates is not that they color the sound. problem is you can hear them open and close, which 99% of the time is because the threshold is set to high and the release to fast. i use berhinger dynamic filters as gates. no problems, dirt cheap so as far as signal quality goes i think that it really doesn't matter. live applications are a different matter and i wouldn't wan't a berhinger on stage with me, for that i'de take a drawmer or other respected brand just so i'm confident in the unit.
Old 18th November 2009
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Tom,
You should look at the Signal Transport Synth-Driver units.
Takes unbalanced synth signal, balanced the signal adds 6db of transparent gain and outputs a clean balanced signal (also has ground lift switches for each channel) ... you can run long balanced cables.
Its ideal for what you need- it ups the level and drops the noise (and hum if present, with the ground lift switches)
Without trying to spam this thread, i am selling one of these 16 channel units for Β£200 with power supply. There is also a 32 channel version on Ebay in the US if you need more channels- although its a lot more pricey.

yeah, been reading about those, in context of my studio. so i can have the backwall of synths balanced and brought clean to the AD across the 6m long mixroom. but, i'm not sure this would make any difference in my application live, since i already use a mixer on the stage right next to synths (its part of the performance - changing aux pre-sends n stuff), i don't run long cables, and synths go directly to that mixer as it is. and everything goes to the same power outlet.

so, atm i haven't any ground loops or hum inherent to the way its connected. just a few machines in the system have inherent noise i.e. space echo n stuff. it really isnt that bad, but i'm always looking if things can get improved.


sidenote: i did give thought to your transport unit for my studio.. how is the i/o sorted on them, 1/4" jacks ? and which version do you have exactly? (iirc they had I and II, and some updates since initial release)





@goldenbeers: yep, i wouldn't be using gates in any "creative" manner live, so very slow releases, fast attack, very low treshold. tho that is a possible problem as you say.. it can never be set ideally.
Old 18th November 2009
  #7
I'm sure I have told that story round here, but:

A) I made a track some years ago with only a worn-out tape delay and a cheap BBD echo as instruments (!). Noisy and crackly as hell.
I used an ART Pro Gate for the outputs, carefully adjusted everything and did an 11-minute live feedback orgy - noiseless, without any pumping or breathing.

B) I can completely remove any unwanted noise from a signal chain consisting of a Godwin Symphony string machine and a Compact Phasing "A" phaser - also with the Pro Gate. Long attack, long decay, varying levels on two channels of noisy oldschool strings - clean!

Of course the Pro Gate is more than just a gate, but I have never heard anything like that. I LOVE that thing.

Cheers,
Bert
Old 17th September 2011
  #8
Lives for gear
 
initself's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Tom,
You should look at the Signal Transport Synth-Driver units.
Takes unbalanced synth signal, balanced the signal adds 6db of transparent gain and outputs a clean balanced signal (also has ground lift switches for each channel) ... you can run long balanced cables.
Its ideal for what you need- it ups the level and drops the noise (and hum if present, with the ground lift switches)
Without trying to spam this thread, i am selling one of these 16 channel units for Β£200 with power supply. There is also a 32 channel version on Ebay in the US if you need more channels- although its a lot more pricey.
I just got one of these and I'm still experiencing a lot of noise, mostly gain noise, coming from my TX802 and my RM50. The Yamaha units are definitely the noisiest of my synths. I think a gate would serve me well for those two units even in addition to the Synth Driver.
Old 17th September 2011
  #9
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initself's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feinstrom View Post
I used an ART Pro Gate for the outputs
I have a hard time believing those actually exist. No eBay action, nothing on the ART Discontinued products site.
Old 17th September 2011
  #10
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sftd's Avatar
 

You will think I'm nuts but if you're strictly wanting noise gating you should consider a Behringer unit. They have a few varieties if I'm not mistaken, but I believe many are packed in other (compressor etc) hardware units). Of all the many both true and invented "facts" about Behringer, I believe even some of the detractors would surely admit if they do anything well it's things of the clinical colorless variety. I don't want my live gate to do anything other than its job with as close to 100% transparency as possible. In fact, no matter your income level at their price you can purchase one, test it, and thereafter send it back if need be with little to no thought of it monetarily. And as we all know five minutes of hand on testing beats a thousand pages of opinion!

I own an old "composer" (not even the "pro" that came after it!) that does everything I want it to do in the way of a live oriented gate and cleanly enough for me to be satisfied.

Seriously though, there is little to no harm in trying it due to the price point. You might be surprised by their gates even if they have disappointed you elsewhere in the past.

(Not saying they have!)

Edit: uh somehow missed the post where captain beers already extoled the aptness at Behringer products in this role, so mine looks pretty stupid in that context. I'm stupid enough to use them live.

I like to try to make myself think all my Behringer gear has been really reliable, but then I recall three pretty big instances where it sucked. I do like to root for the underdog though!

Woops!


Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 17th September 2011
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by initself View Post
I have a hard time believing those actually exist. No eBay action, nothing on the ART Discontinued products site.
So you can't even SEE them.
Transparent enough?

Cheers,
Bert
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