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How do you deal with overlapping bass elements? (New melodic minimal track)
Old 12th November 2009
  #1
How do you deal with overlapping bass elements? (New melodic minimal track)

Hey there!
I was just wondering on how you usually deal with overlapping sounds in the bass area, primarily kick and bass (where the material is in mono, panning not allowed ).

Working on a new tune ( Download slug.mp3 from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way ), and I feel the bottom end of the kick is cancelled a little when the bassline hits in. I dont want to sidechain it, as I dont want that sound on the track. I guess I could still carve some more freqs out of the bass, but I dont want it to sound thin. I have sidechained a band on an eq before with success, but I was thinking to try something new.

What are your tips?

Any comments on the track are also welcome

Lotsa love to you all, as always!

magnus

Last edited by fragletrollet; 12th November 2009 at 12:20 PM.. Reason: more describing title
Old 12th November 2009
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Ludwig's Avatar
 

The bass will sound fat when combined with the kick, scoop out the bass around 100hz to allow the kick to fill that bottom end
Old 12th November 2009
  #3
Yeah, I guess thats the easiest and maybe most effective solution. Any other fancy ways?
Old 12th November 2009
  #4
you know you can make side-chain compression less obvious. you don't need to go for the pumping effect, which is in essence side chaining done 'wrong' anyway.

also you can automate eq much like side-chain compression. on your bass channel, automate a high Q dip at an appropriate frequency on the nose of every kick to let that kick freq sit on top.
Old 12th November 2009
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
you know you can make side-chain compression less obvious. you don't need to go for the pumping effect, which is in essence side chaining done 'wrong' anyway.

also you can automate eq much like side-chain compression. on your bass channel, automate a high Q dip at an appropriate frequency on the nose of every kick to let that kick freq sit on top.
Thanks for your response. When sidechaining the bass to the kick, even moderately, it will pull down the whole bass, and not only the offending frequencies... no?
Old 12th November 2009
  #6
yes but you don't have to pull all the way down to nothing. and you can have the compressor attack and release real fast. i suggest you spend some time searching other threads for more comprehensive instruction, i just can't be arsed to write another essay on compression! pleanty of techniques to try.
Old 12th November 2009
  #7
Yeah I know how to do it. But always on the lookout for new techniques
Old 12th November 2009
  #8
Gear Nut
 

OK, I'll play. Seriously, if you find that bass + kick are not working properly together, find another kick/bass combo that actually WORKS.

Choice of sound, THE most important factor if you want a track to work... Because if it ain't right from the beginning, most often won't work..
Old 12th November 2009
  #9
Very true, this was the thing that improved my tracks the most

Did you listen to the track I linked to ?
Old 12th November 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
XAXAU's Avatar
As golden beers said, automate an EQ to filter out the bass everytime the kick hits. Have your bassdrum fullrange. You wonยดt notice the subs of the bass disappearing cause those frequencies are represented by the kick anyway.

Either a HPF or a notch.

Use a 1/16th note length and draw a nice automation curve and copy it out all over the project.

Also, sidechain compress it with fastest attack and fast release.

You can have a ghost kick to to trigger the sidechain and move it back in time like 10ms so that you donยดt lose the transient so much.

If you want those deep deep subs to walk right over the kick they have to be tuned to eachother.
Old 13th November 2009
  #11
Yeah M_Teus is right, its really about sound selection especially with minimal techno. The sound and fx are a fundamental part of the composition. In other styles where there is more going on, maybe multiple basslines I'll sidechain and eq heavily. If you begin with the right sound you shouldn't need much processing, it should sound good and work pretty well before you start processing.



.
Old 13th November 2009
  #12
i should have assumed someone would have mentioned side-chaining by now, but that's what i would have suggested. subtle side-chaining and eq should do it.
that's how i usually do it, and i tend to love bassy elements, and bassy droney synths, so i have to do it quite often, and i find it works well!
i don't have any other tricks up my sleeve.
good luck!
Old 14th November 2009
  #13
Unknown Cause - Tracks - SoundCloud


new version...


Still too much bass? What do you think.
Old 14th November 2009
  #14
Gear Addict
 
Mark1353's Avatar
 

I didn't listen the track but splitting a bass into two bands and sidechaining more of/only the low end is a nice trick.
Old 14th November 2009
  #15
Do you guys ever EQ every bass-note differently? Seems like alot of work, but probably would sound cool...
Old 14th November 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragletrollet View Post
Do you guys ever EQ every bass-note differently? Seems like alot of work, but probably would sound cool...
No, because your room acoustics will likely kill your production. So thats in my opinion the worst idea
one could have.
Old 14th November 2009
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragletrollet View Post
Unknown Cause - Tracks - SoundCloud


new version...


Still too much bass? What do you think.
yes way too much
Old 14th November 2009
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Hi. I like the track. The progressions are cool and I like the vibe. It is kinda spooky. My only criticism at the moment is that the clap is way to loud in the mix. It is distracting. I would also try to tighten up the melody that comes in latter on in the track.

Scott.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragletrollet View Post
Hey there!
I was just wondering on how you usually deal with overlapping sounds in the bass area, primarily kick and bass (where the material is in mono, panning not allowed ).

Working on a new tune ( Download slug.mp3 from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way ), and I feel the bottom end of the kick is cancelled a little when the bassline hits in. I dont want to sidechain it, as I dont want that sound on the track. I guess I could still carve some more freqs out of the bass, but I dont want it to sound thin. I have sidechained a band on an eq before with success, but I was thinking to try something new.

What are your tips?

Any comments on the track are also welcome

Lotsa love to you all, as always!

magnus
Old 14th November 2009
  #19
Ok, so here is yet another version, with less bass. I obviously have some acoustic problems in my room, even tough its treated I havent done any sweeping tests, so there are probably some peaks and nulls confusing me


Does this mix sound better?

I pulled down the volume on the clap, took away bass on kick and bass and some highs on the bassline.


Now I kinda feel the hihats are too loud. Man this can make any sane man go F###ing crazy


Unknown Cause - Tracks - SoundCloud
Old 14th November 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Entrainer's Avatar
 

Dude, check this thing out!

Elevayta - Space Boy

This is my "secret weapon" heh

It's like sidechain compression, but for EQ...
it fits like a glove and has a wet/dry.


I tend the bounce several versions. Kick alone, bass alone, and kick and bass together.
At that point it's an artistic choice for energy/dynamics...

Anyways, it's a cheap investment that solves a ton of problems quick.

peace-

EDIT: Also real cool for drum layering and sound design work.
One of my new favorite things is to create versions of kick, snare,
clap layers using SpaceBoy...
then render them to individual hits that I can put into GURU.
Old 14th November 2009
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
As golden beers said, automate an EQ to filter out the bass everytime the kick hits. Have your bassdrum fullrange. You wonยดt notice the subs of the bass disappearing cause those frequencies are represented by the kick anyway.

Either a HPF or a notch.

Use a 1/16th note length and draw a nice automation curve and copy it out all over the project.

Also, sidechain compress it with fastest attack and fast release.

You can have a ghost kick to to trigger the sidechain and move it back in time like 10ms so that you donยดt lose the transient so much.

If you want those deep deep subs to walk right over the kick they have to be tuned to eachother.
+1
Old 15th November 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 
timbreman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragletrollet View Post
Hey there!
I was just wondering on how you usually deal with overlapping sounds in the bass area, primarily kick and bass (where the material is in mono, panning not allowed ).

Working on a new tune ( Download slug.mp3 from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way ), and I feel the bottom end of the kick is cancelled a little when the bassline hits in. I dont want to sidechain it, as I dont want that sound on the track. I guess I could still carve some more freqs out of the bass, but I dont want it to sound thin. I have sidechained a band on an eq before with success, but I was thinking to try something new.

What are your tips?

Any comments on the track are also welcome

Lotsa love to you all, as always!

magnus
I know this is completely changing the style of what you've got but here is a quick slap together of something similar to what I would do.

Who knows maybe it might give you some ideas.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/2/...%20remixed.mp3
.
.
.
Old 10th June 2015
  #23
Gear Head
 

Depends on genre, sometimes if kick and bass seems like isn't playing on the same frequencies at the same time and clashing isn't obvious then I let them overlap (around 50Hz or any other frequency) to some degree (there may be times when jazz kick drum and bass needs to be fat and low)
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